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Does James disprove Free Will?

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timtofly

timtofly

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HankD said:
You did not answer my question.

lf we are made in His image and likeness how can we be TOTALLY depraved?
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We can be totally depraved, but that is not the definition Reformed theology use. They mean we are slaves to sin, and no way out, at conception. We are depraved of being sealed by the Holy Spirit. We are depraved of God's love and mercy. No, they cannot say that, because it is a lie. So they use a well defined word, and hope no one notices what they actually mean.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

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timtofly said:
Removing your tongue is not being righteous, but foolish. You are the one saying if we can control our tongue, it would prove James wrong. Is that your opinion, or written in stone, somewhere?
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James says you cannot control your tongue, the least member. How about the big stuff?
 
HankD

HankD

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timtofly said:
We are not. We are in Adam's image and likeness. Genesis 5:3

3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

Seth was born after the fall, and Adam was spiritually separated from God. A sinner, born to a sinner.
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James 3:9 With it we bless the Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who are made in the likeness of God.

"men" plural - all men are in His image,
.
 
HankD

HankD

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timtofly said:
We can be totally depraved, but that is not the definition Reformed theology use. They mean we are slaves to sin, and no way out, at conception. We are depraved of being sealed by the Holy Spirit. We are depraved of God's love and mercy. No, they cannot say that, because it is a lie. So they use a well defined word, and hope no one notices what they actually mean.
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i personally cannot use "total depravity" of humankind made in the image and likeness of God,

hopeless, helpless, deceitful, wicked and sinful by nature from birth YES,
 
Dave G

Dave G

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Does James Disprove Free Will?

" Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures." ( James 1:17-18 ).

It was by His will that believers are "begotten" ( birthed ) with the word of truth...
Not our will as men ( John 1:13 ).



" For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." ( Romans 6:23 ).

Tracking back to verse 17 in James 1, I notice that truly good gifts and perfect gifts are from above...
Then I see that eternal life is the gift "of" ( by or from ) God.
 
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Dave G

Dave G

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timtofly said:
Some people like to redefine free will to say what it does not mean.
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Tim,
What is the definition of free will?

Is it...
" the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion."

" Free will is the ability to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded.
Free will is closely linked to the concepts of moral responsibility, praise, guilt, sin, and other judgements which apply only to actions that are freely chosen."


Also,
How does God's word describe man's will and what condition it is in?
Is it unimpeded, or can and does God effect His own will over the top of man's?


Do we seek God in and of ourselves, or does something have to happen for us to seek Him and reconciliation with Him?

Let's define it as God does, and leave off "Reformed Theology" or anything other systematic theology.
Do you know of any passages that declare what man's desires are towards God?
 
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church mouse guy

church mouse guy

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HankD said:
i personally cannot use "total depravity" of humankind made in the image and likeness of God,

hopeless, helpless, deceitful, wicked and sinful by nature from birth YES,
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Man is now naturally evil. You are talking about Adam in the Garden but now the universe is cursed.
 
timtofly

timtofly

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
Only Christ is not bound by sin. Are you claiming to be on his level?
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I am not on a level defined by some doctrine. I am in Christ. Is being in Christ the same as being on His level? I still have to confess sin. I am still human.
 
timtofly

timtofly

Well-Known Member
Dave Gilbert said:
Free will is closely linked to the concepts of moral responsibility, praise, guilt, sin, and other judgements which apply only to actions that are freely chosen."
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Perhaps the link should be broken. A change of will is a choice that is free, unimpeded. The choice between wills is enabled by free will.


On one side of that choice is the will choosing only evil.

The other side is the will of choosing only good.

The will of one does not produce the fruit of the other. That we vacillate between the two wills is free will. Does it happen second by second in this human body? Woman claim it is their perogative. Men do it more often.

Free will is not the ability to choose options contained within each will type. Liberty in sin happens just as much as liberty in Christ. Free will may deal with other ideologies where humans as a governmental group bend human will, and call it culture. But most humans do not jump culture everyday. In Christ we have an adversary who wants us to jump ship many times a day. That is why we have to die to the flesh every day.

Free will is unimpeded by necessity (God) or fate (evil).
 
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