Does 'Non-Calvinisitic' theology really exalt the view of man?

[Winman]

remember that david knew that he was conceived in sin and iniquity, that per paul we all are dead in our sins, in Adam, and this is one reason why jesus HAD to be virgin born of /by HS, as that meant he "by passed" inheriting the sin nature all born after Adam have received!

think that it is pretty much confirmed from the bible that ONLY 2 men EVER were w/o having sin natures, Adam by being created perfect by god, and Jesus by nature of His virgin birth!

All the rest of us are borned as sinners, and will prove that by choosing to sin all the way through our life!

Jesus came in the flesh, had fleshly desires and was tempted in all points as we are, yet never sinned.

He could not have inherited this from his Father, as his Father is not flesh, does not have fleshly desires, and cannot be tempted. Jesus acquired all these qualities from his mother Mary.

You can't get around this. The Catholics realized this and so invented the false doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, saying she was born without Original Sin. But Mary was a sinner just like everyone else and gave a sin offering.

 

[JesusFan]

[

QUOTE=Winman;1732079]Jesus came in the flesh, had fleshly desires and was tempted in all points as we are, yet never sinned.

Holy Spirit conceived Him in mary, God was/is his father, and THAT is why He came as 'perfect flesh", same way Adam was when created, as sinnless and w/o a sin nature!

He could not have inherited this from his Father, as his Father is not flesh, does not have fleshly desires, and cannot be tempted. Jesus acquired all these qualities from his mother Mary.

Jesus was/is BOTH God natured/man natured...

Inherited from mary his humanity, except that with God as His father, was WITHOUT sin nature He would have gotten IF Joseph was His actual father!

You can't get around this. The Catholics realized this and so invented the false doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, saying she was born without Original Sin. But Mary was a sinner just like everyone else and gave a sin offering.[/QUOTE

]


christians "invented" Virgin Birth, as that preserves jesus as being Man, yet not a sinner, as he was NOT in Adam!

 

[Winman]

[


Holy Spirit conceived Him in mary, God was/is his father, and THAT is why He came as 'perfect flesh", same way Adam was when created, as sinnless and w/o a sin nature!



Jesus was/is BOTH God natured/man natured...

Inherited from mary his humanity, except that with God as His father, was WITHOUT sin nature He would have gotten IF Joseph was His actual father!

]


christians "invented" Virgin Birth, as that preserves jesus as being Man, yet not a sinner, as he was NOT in Adam!

False, Jesus came in the flesh, he had the NATURE and was made like his brethren the seed of Abraham in ALL THINGS. (Heb 2:16-18) He was just as flesh as you and I, yet he never sinned.

The scriptures say that if a person denies Jesus came in the flesh, this is the spirit of antichrist. (1 Jn 4:1-3)

You refuse to see it, Jesus could be TEMPTED. (Heb 4:15) God the Father CANNOT be tempted. (Jam 1:13)

Jesus inherited the ability to be tempted from his mother, he could not inherit it from his Father, as his Father does not have this ability.

And the Catholics teach that Mary was also conceived by the Holy Spirit, study and see. They teach that Mary never sinned.

Why do they teach this? Because they know Jesus inherited his flesh from his mother, not his Father. The sin nature (unscriptural term) resides in the flesh.

 

[JesusFan]

False, Jesus came in the flesh, he had the NATURE and was made like his brethren the seed of Abraham in ALL THINGS. (Heb 2:16-18) He was just as flesh as you and I, yet he never sinned.

Jesuscame in the "likeness" NOT "sameness" of human flesh...

He was born without an inherit Sin nature, as he was/is GOD manifested ina human body/form...

again, very reason that he was Virgin born, conceived by HS, as THAT pevented HIM from being tainted by the fall, and receiving a sin nature from His father...

God is His father, so NO sin nature found from there!

Jesus was sinless by His very nature, NOT due to the fact that he did not sin!

The scriptures say that if a person denies Jesus came in the flesh, this is the spirit of antichrist. (1 Jn 4:1-3)

Y

You might do well to heed that, as you seem to imply that jesus was Less than God in Human form, that he was born "just" as we all are!

ou refuse to see it, Jesus could be TEMPTED. (Heb 4:15) God the Father CANNOT be tempted. (Jam 1:13)

jesus could be tempted, as he felt the experiences as humans would/do, YET was God in human form, so he coulod NOT sin, as he was Divine!

And the father/HS were always in "God only" mode, Jesus in Incarnation BOTH God/man! SO Father/HS could NEVER experience what he was able to as being a man!


Jesus inherited the ability to be tempted from his mother, he could not inherit it from his Father, as his Father does not have this ability.

And the Catholics teach that Mary was also conceived by the Holy Spirit, study and see. They teach that Mary never sinned.

Why do they teach this? Because they know Jesus inherited his flesh from his mother, not his Father. The sin nature (unscriptural term) resides in the flesh.

Sin nature comes from theBiological father, goes all the way back to Adam, our father....

So jesus by passed this by the Virgin Birth!

 

[Winman]

Sin nature comes from theBiological father, goes all the way back to Adam, our father....

So jesus by passed this by the Virgin Birth!

Baloney, if the sin nature is passed physically, then Jesus would have inherited a sin nature from Mary.

Tell me, do you look like your father only, or do you also share resemblance to your mother?

It is obvious we inherit physical characteristics from both parents.

Jesus had Mary's flesh, he was the SEED of the WOMAN that God promised in Gen 3:15. If Mary was a sinner (and she was), then Jesus would have inherited her sin nature. As I have said, Catholic theologians (who invented Original Sin in the first place) realized this, and so had to invent the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception to explain how Jesus was born without a sin nature.

I do not believe Jesus had a sin nature. He was born flesh with desires that tempted him in all points as we are, yet he never sinned.

 

[JesusFan]

Baloney, if the sin nature is passed physically, then Jesus would have inherited a sin nature from Mary.

Tell me, do you look like your father only, or do you also share resemblance to your mother?

It is obvious we inherit physical characteristics from both parents.

Jesus had Mary's flesh, he was the SEED of the WOMAN that God promised in Gen 3:15. If Mary was a sinner (and she was), then Jesus would have inherited her sin nature. As I have said, Catholic theologians (who invented Original Sin in the first place) realized this, and so had to invent the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception to explain how Jesus was born without a sin nature.

I do not believe Jesus had a sin nature. He was born flesh with desires that tempted him in all points as we are, yet he never sinned.

Jesus was born as a man, but did NOT have the sin nature common to All of us!

jesus could be tempted, but NOT sin as we would do from the tempation, as he was/is NOT exactly like us, as he had no nature to sin, no sin principle within Him as we all do, and he was/is God!

Also WHY HAD to come via the Miracle of the Virgin Birth, as that allowed Him to be able to NOT receive the Sin that a human Father would have bestown on Him!

 

[matt wade]

Jesus was born as a man, but did NOT have the sin nature common to All of us!

jesus could be tempted, but NOT sin as we would do from the tempation, as he was/is NOT exactly like us, as he had no nature to sin, no sin principle within Him as we all do, and he was/is God!

If someone waves a pickle in front of me, there is no temptation for me to eat it. Why? Because it's not in my nature to like pickles.

 

[mandym]

If someone waves a pickle in front of me, there is no temptation for me to eat it. Why? Because it's not in my nature to like pickles.

There would be if you had not eaten in some time and that was all that was available.

 

[Winman]

There would be if you had not eaten in some time and that was all that was available.

The point Matt is making is that without desire there is no temptation. So when Satan tempted Jesus to turn a stone into bread, Jesus had a real desire to do so, otherwise
you cannot say he was tempted.

 

[Van]

again, very reason that he was Virgin born, conceived by HS, as THAT pevented HIM from being tainted by the fall, and receiving a sin nature from His father...

This is yet another baseless assertion made my Calvinists without a shred of biblical support. Pure speculation presented as biblical truth. They have no concept of fact checking their beliefs against what the Bible actually says.

Why was Jesus born of a virgin? How does the Bible actually answer that question?

I expect not one single Calvinist can cite one verse that actually answers that question.

 

[Van]

Folks, as I have pointed out numerious times, our "old man" (adamic) nature is not received physically, but spiritually. This is demonstrated by Eve having her eyes opened when Adam sinned.

But Catholic theologians did not invent original sin, God did. Paul says the many (everyone but Christ) was made sinners, so the Fall is biblical. But the "old man" nature is not transmitted physically, but spiritually. The Virgin birth fulfilled more than one prophecy, but only facilitated being born a "new man." Jesus did not have a spirit after Adam, but was a new man, God in the flesh.

 

[JesusFan]

Folks, as I have pointed out numerious times, our "old man" (adamic) nature is not received physically, but spiritually. This is demonstrated by Eve having her eyes opened when Adam sinned.

But Catholic theologians did not invent original sin, God did. Paul says the many (everyone but Christ) was made sinners, so the Fall is biblical. But the "old man" nature is not transmitted physically, but spiritually. The Virgin birth fulfilled more than one prophecy, but only facilitated being born a "new man." Jesus did not have a spirit after Adam, but was a new man, God in the flesh.

Actually jesus was GOD manifest in Human flesh, no sin nature, that is why he HD to come via the virgin Birth!

 

[Van]

Jesusfan, why do you continue to post falsehood. Post scripture to support your view or stop posting fiction. Your speculation is sinful, leaning on your own understanding rather than God's word. (1) you assert our "old man" nature is passed physically rather than spiritually. I provided the verse Gen 3:7 to support my view. You have posted nothing to support your assertion, but only repeat it like you believe if you say something that makes it valid. LOL

Was Jesus God manifest in human flesh? What verse says that? Now John 1:14 says the Word, who is God, became flesh. Thus Jesus was God in the flesh. Anyone who denies this should not post on Baptist only forums. It is true that Jesus manifested God and God's power and glory, while in the flesh, but he was not a human demonstrating God to us, but God in the flesh. Big difference.

 

[JesusFan]

[

QUOTE=Van;1732511]Jesusfan, why do you continue to post falsehood. Post scripture to support your view or stop posting fiction. Your speculation is sinful, leaning on your own understanding rather than God's word. (1) you assert our "old man" nature is passed physically rather than spiritually. I provided the verse Gen 3:7 to support my view. You have posted nothing to support your assertion, but only repeat it like you believe if you say something that makes it valid. LOL

adam sinned, received a sinful nature, pased that on to Cain and Able, and so until this present time...

God sees Adam as BOTH the physical and spiritual father/head over human race, except for those now in Christ!

Was Jesus God manifest in human flesh? What verse says that? Now John 1:14 says the Word, who is God, became flesh. Thus Jesus was God in the flesh. Anyone who denies this should not post on Baptist only forums. It is true that Jesus manifested God and God's power and glory, while in the flesh, but he was not a human demonstrating God to us, but God in the flesh. Big difference.

[/QUOTE]

I ALWAYS have posted here since posting first day that Jesus was/is the second person ofthe trinity manifested in human Form!