-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Does the Bible allow Christians to defend themselves with lethal force?
- Thread starter canadyjd
- Start date
Someone attempting to steal, rape, murder is going to reap what they have sown!
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Any scripture verses to support Christians using lethal force to protect themselves or others?
peace to you
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
ZERO Scriptures, though there are some who will INVENT one, and EMBELLISH others, to try to prove that the Bible does!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Pslam 27:17-20, "When the righteous cry for help, the Lord hears and delivers them out of all their troubles. The Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit. Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers him out of them all. He keeps all his bones; not one of them is broken"
Ecclesiastes 9:18, "Wisdom is better than weapons of war, but one sinner destroys much good"
Romans 12:19, "Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”
Ecclesiastes 9:18, "Wisdom is better than weapons of war, but one sinner destroys much good"
Romans 12:19, "Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
you mean that the Lord is ABLE to save our souls from eternal punishement, but not from those who seek to kill us here on earth? Has the Lord's hand become short? Is God NOT ABLE to protect us ALWAYS?
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
2 Cor 10:4, "For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds"
Ephesians 6:12, "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."
Ephesians 6:12, "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
do you understand this literally for Christians to follow, or is Jesus here using an illustration?
you did not quote verse 21, "but when one stronger than he attacks him and overcomes him, he takes away his armor in which he trusted and divides his spoil"
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
John 14:27, "Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid."
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
It is an illustration. But Jesus is speaking in a way that they could understand.
It was common sense to expect the “strong man” of the house to protect his family and possessions. That would be understood by all.
The question is; does that apply to Christians today? Are we expected to protect our families? Jesus said there was no greater love than laying down your life for another.
Wouldn’t doing everything in our power to protect our families from violence be part of that great love? Even if we died? Even if we were forced to use lethal force?
peace to you
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
sure, but what about the stronger man who attacks and overcomes? where do we go from here? Should we not simply throw our lives and that of our familes to the Lord for His Protection?
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Of course. The point of the “stringer man” in Jesus’ illustration was to demonstrate He had overpowered Satan with the “finger of God” in order to cast out demons.
But that’s not my point. Jesus is clearly stating a principle the people would understand. People defend their families and possessions with weapons.
Does that principle apply to Christians?
peace to you
BasketFinch
Active Member
Was any of that showing up in Uvalde Texas?
How about at any of the 13 mass shooting sites this past weekend? As they happened?
Luke 11:21 "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own mansion, his property is safe."
Luke 22:35-37 “Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you out to preach the Good News and you did not have money, a traveler’s bag, or an extra pair of sandals, did you need anything?” “No,” they replied. “But now,” he said, “take your money and a traveler’s bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one! For the time has come for this prophecy about me to be fulfilled: ‘He was counted among the rebels. Yes, everything written about me by the prophets will come true.”
1 Peter 4:12-19
Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice insofar as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. But let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or as a meddler. Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name. For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And “If the righteous is scarcely saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?” Therefore let those who suffer according to God’s will entrust their souls to a faithful Creator while doing good.
Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice insofar as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. But let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or as a meddler. Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name. For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And “If the righteous is scarcely saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?” Therefore let those who suffer according to God’s will entrust their souls to a faithful Creator while doing good.
For defense of others with lethal force:
Psalm 82:1-4 hints at defending the weak
1 Timothy 5:8 hints at men being charged to provide for their families
James 2:14-17 implies a Christian moral duty to act in all cases possible to help someone as is within your skill set/resources
There's also a verse in the Old Testament about a thief breaking into your house at night vs in the day. It's OK if you kill him at night, but it's not ok in the day. I can't find it, but what I get out of that verse is "violence is a last resort, but is permissible".
1 Timothy 5:8 comes into play because men are told to provide for their families. What are men to provide? Safety, security, food, protection, etc. Given a situation where an armed, or unknown threat, is attacking your family, and given that men are charged by God to provide safety, security and protection for their family, a man is able to use lethal force as a last resort.
James 2:14-17 implies that Christians have a duty to act where they can help. Sitting and praying about it, I.E just having faith, is not the right thing to do. Action must come from your faith.
Examples of the James 2:14-17 principle:
-I have Emergency Medical Responder certification for my Fire Dept. If I come up on someone who has a traumatic injury and needs immediate medical care then I have a Christian duty (not a medical duty, nor a departmental duty) to act and treat him. If I do not stop to help, and I continue on my way, then I have failed the James 2:14-17 principle and have said the modern equivalent of "go in peace".
-Suppose I'm carrying a firearm, and have trained with it, and come across a man attempting to drag a screaming woman and her children into an alleyway with the intent to rape them all. If I do nothing then I am guilty of telling the woman, and her kids, to go in peace. The Christian duty in this case is to first try to restrain the subject, and then move up the force continuum (violence as a last resort principle) up to and including lethal force. It is not a Christian option to sit on the sidewalk and start praying peacefully while the man rapes the women and children for that does not line up with James.
I think the answer, succinctly put is "Lethal force for self-defense of others is clearly Biblical IF it is used as a last resort".