Does the Bible teach a Christian Must abstain from all alcohol?

[JesusFan]

Fresher juice??

With non-alcoholic beverages the better is always served last (you can go from fair juice to better juice, but not the other way around as the better makes the less quality taste even worse)

That does not make sence.

Also, fresh juice does not cause wine skins to burst. It is the production of alcohol that produces gasses which expand the wine skins that cause old wine skins to burst.

They would know if Jesus had made Welches, as they saw Him making Gold Medal winning real wine

When I get the flu or a severe cold, I rely on Nyquil, which has alcohol as a key ingredient. I also think a shot of whiskey might just do better for some circumstances than the chemicals, but I don't use that myself.

For social drinkers, though, I question whether one can be filled with the Holy Spirit while getting intoxicated. I think that's something that would have to be judged on an individual basis, but the reason most people drink alcohol is to alter their minds. I've discussed this issue with people who argue about that, but it's just a given. While I can say I like a malt beverage, and have no problem drinking a non-alcoholic beer, the fact remains that liquor tastes pretty bad, lol. So, we know it's not because most people think it's delicious.

How about a nice Hawaiian punch?

one cannot be drunk and filled with Holy Spirit at that time, but can be filled with "responsible drinking"

 

[37818]

Fresher juice??

With non-alcoholic beverages the better is always served last (you can go from fair juice to better juice, but not the other way around as the better makes the less quality taste even worse)

That does not make sence.

Also, fresh juice does not cause wine skins to burst. It is the production of alcohol that produces gasses which expand the wine skins that cause old wine skins to burst.

Yes, fresh juice from water. Why not?

 

[Darrell C]

one cannot be drunk and filled with Holy Spirit at that time, but can be filled with "responsible drinking"

Do you have a "responsible toking" policy, too?

In view is an alteration of the mind. I just don't see why we would need to alter our minds with either drugs or alcohol. How about a good sci-fi movie? lol

A stay in a cabin in the mountains.

Time spent with the Lord in His Word, now that's an alteration we all need. I've been so busy I haven't gotten enough of that lately.

 

[Darrell C]

I am not saying wine is good (I don't like wine....I dont drink).

I was in a crawlspace installing a system, and I noticed a box of bottles. I drank them, and figured it was wine, and asked the howeowner about them. He gave me two bottles, and I have to say, it was delicious. I wasn't a wine-drinker, either, but that stuff tasted like juice.

 

[Darrell C]

After I got saved, my brother kept mentioning Guinness, and I was kind of sorry I never tried one before being saved, because I was extremely curious as to what it tasted like. I found a non-alcoholic one and I have to say—not sure why anyone would drink that stuff.

 

[JonC]

Do you have a "responsible toking" policy, too?

In view is an alteration of the mind. I just don't see why we would need to alter our minds with either drugs or alcohol. How about a good sci-fi movie? lol

A stay in a cabin in the mountains.

Time spent with the Lord in His Word, now that's an alteration we all need. I've been so busy I haven't gotten enough of that lately.

Could be a responsible toking policy (controlling nausea due to chemo, at home to relax). But I'd classify Marijuana as more than having a drink. Not sure, though, as I never tried it.

I do not have a responsible drinking policy for alcohol or a responsible toking policy as I do not drink or use Marijuana.

I was speaking strictly of what is allowed in Scripture.

What other things affect the mind? Caffeine is one obvious substance (I do drink coffee). Nicotine is another.


Stay in a cabin in the mountains??!!! Rocky mountain high??,

They would know if Jesus had made Welches, as they saw Him making Gold Medal winning real wine

To be fair....I like Welches, I do not like wine

But yes, the context of the wedding feast is wine (not juice). The myth that wine was not acceptable at rhe time changes the meaning of so much of Scripture.

Yes, fresh juice from water. Why not?

I would prefer fresh juice over wine (I'd want it to be half orange juice and half grapefruit juice).

But the context is wine. The reason that it was common to serve the best first is most would not recognize the poorer due to the alcohol. The steward would not consider juice a better wine.

One does not serve a lower quality unalcholic beverage last. Why. Because it tastes awful because of the better one even if it would have been fine served first. If serving grape just, start with the off brand, move up to juicy juice, snd finish with Welches. Everybody is happy. But start with Welches and move down, everybody is disappointed.

Think about Jesus' parable.

Why not put new wine in old wineskins?
Because the new wine continued the fermentation process in the wine skins and the off gas would cause old wineskins to burst. This is not a problem with juice that is consumed as unfirminted juice.

 

[37818]

Modern wine is the fermented grape juice. What was considered the strong drink.

 

[JesusFan]

Modern wine is the fermented grape juice. What was considered the strong drink.

Jesus made alcoholic wine

 

[atpollard]

Modern wine is the fermented grape juice. What was considered the strong drink.

Ancient Beers (grain) and Wines (fruit) ran a wide range of alcohol content from modern Beer/Wine at the high end to very watered down mixtures with strange additives for flavor. It was the Water/Soda/Sport Drink of its day.

 

[kyredneck]

Deut 14:26

Psalms Chapter 104

14​	He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, And herb for the service of man; That he may bring forth food out of the earth,

15​	And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, And oil to make his face to shine, And bread that strengtheneth man`s heart.

John Chapter 2

10​	and saith unto him, Every man setteth on first the good wine; and when men have drunk freely, then that which is worse: thou hast kept the good wine until now.

fresher juice

Lol, without refrigeration was available about three days a year...

 

[37818]

Jesus made alcoholic wine

 

[atpollard]

 

[JonC]

Modern wine is the fermented grape juice. What was considered the strong drink.

No. Not only does history prove this wrong, but so does Scripture.

Noah did not get drunk on grape juice.
Elizabeth denied being drunk not by claiming it was only juice but that it was too early.
Deacons are not to be given to drinking much wine, not much juice.

Hosts provided the best wine first as the effects would allow poorer wine to be less noticeable

You do not put new wine into old wine skins.
Why? Old wine skins are stiff from the fermentation process.
As new wine fermented it gave off gasses, which would burst old wine skins.

Wine, not grape juice, is a mockery.

You are also missing the significance of wine as a symbol in Scripture.

You have invented the idea that modern wine only contains alcohol, when we know Noah got drunk on wine from a vineyard he planted.

I am NOT saying your convictions are wrong. Drink, abstain, that is up to you.
I also do not drink.

BUT here you are imposing your convictions onto Scripture.

 

[37818]

Noah did not get drunk on grape juice.

Genesis 9:20-21, And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard: And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

So you believe Noah got drunken on purpose?

 

[JonC]

Genesis 9:20-21, And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard: And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

So you believe Noah got drunken on purpose?

I don't know if he got drunk on purpose or simply drank too much. But I do not think that the wine he was drinking was unfirmented grape juice and only modern wine containing alcohol.

I believe Noah drank the wine and got drunk.


Do you know why new wine is not out into old wineskins?

If wine was just juice then the old wine skins could simply be cleaned and reused.
The reason new wine is not put into old wine skins is the wine continues the fermentation process in wineskins.
The old wineskins become hardened due to the alcohol and fermentation process.
As new wine continues fermentation it produces gasses. If put in old wineskins the old skins would burst.

Did you ever notice that the accusations of the Jews towards Jesus insofar as eating and drinking goes? They accused Him of excess (eating and drinking became a charge gluttony and drunkenness).

Did you know that in the 1st century the type of wine used at Passover was wine (not unfirmented juice), probably diluted with water and sweetened.

Lastly, do you know why the poorer diluted wine was served after the better quality wine?
Unlike juice without alcohol, with wine (and any alcoholic beverage) the poorer wine is mot as noticeable after oeoole have consumed the better quality wine. Thus foes mot mean people were too drunk to notice, but that even without becoming drunk alcohol has an effect.

 

[37818]

@JonC,
Pasteurized grape juice, wine is not, fresh or not.

 

[Salty]

I grew up being taught not to drink booze.
In fact, the church covenant most use state:
" to abstain from the sale and use of intoxicating drink as a beverage; "
Well, now my thinking is:
I guarantee you that if I don't drink booze, I will never get drunk!
Besides - I am cheap!

 

[37818]

. . . to abstain from the sale . . . .

Not eating at restaurants that sell it is doable.
But shopping at grocery stores that do not sell it can be problematic.

 

[Marooncat79]

Deut 14:26

 

[atpollard]

Just in case anyone wanted to read it in context:

Deuteronomy 14:22-27 [NASB]
22 "You shall certainly tithe all the produce from what you sow, which comes from the field every year. 23 "You shall eat in the presence of the LORD your God, at the place where He chooses to establish His name, the tithe of your grain, your new wine, your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and your flock, so that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always. 24 "But if the distance is so great for you that you are not able to bring [the tithe,] since the place where the LORD your God chooses to set His name is too far away from you when the LORD your God blesses you, 25 then you shall exchange [it] for money, and bind the money in your hand and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses. 26 "And you may spend the money on whatever your heart desires: on oxen, sheep, wine, [other] strong drink, or whatever your heart desires; and there you shall eat in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household. 27 "Also you shall not neglect the Levite who is in your town, for he has no portion or inheritance among you.