Does "The Church" exist?

[The Biblicist]

The "Other Gospel" that Paul went against and warned people about was any gospel that combined Grace and works. We are saved by grace plus nothing. The work Jesus gave His people to do was the works He did. He said Isa. 61:11 The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah [is] on Me; because the LORD has anointed Me to preach the Gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
2 to preach the acceptable year of the LORD
This He read to those in the synagogue Luke4:18 The Spirit of [the] Lord [is] on Me; because of this He has anointed Me to proclaim the Gospel to [the] poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim deliverance to the captives, and new sight to [the blind, to set at liberty those having been crushed,
19 to proclaim the acceptable year of [the] Lord.
I doubt that I'll get part of that $10,000, but I won't turn it down.

Your closer but no cigar. Isaiah 61:11 defines only the first aspect of the Great Commission -preaching the gospel and its effects. The second and third aspects of the Great Commission go beyond mere evangelization of the lost.

You are correct that the "another gospel" refers to the gospel of works as there is no gospel that is works plus grace because they cannot be mixed (Rom. 11:6). So there is the gospel of works that masquerades as grace or the gospel of grace.

 

[The Biblicist]

I can't help but wonder if somehow Hebrews 6:1 "Therefore, having left the discourse of the beginning of Christ, let us go on to full growth, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 of baptisms, of doctrine, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment." might apply to us when we are always dwelling on those doctrines which the writer of Hebrews says we should grow past? Does 1Cor.3 apply when we keep planting ourselves at the doors of men and constantly divide 1Cor 3:1 "And I, brothers, could not speak to you as to spiritual ones, but as to fleshly, as to babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk and not with solid food, for you were not yet able [to bear it]; nor are you able even now.
3 For you are yet carnal. For in that [there is] among you envyings and strife and divisions, are you not carnal, and [do you not] walk according to men?
4 For while one says, I am of Paul; and another, I [am] of Apollos; are you not carnal?....and he goes on.... " We are all familiar with the passages. Is this not much of what we, His Body, the Church do? We keep dividing,(sometimes violently), laying again the foundation instead of going on to full growth? Am I wrong? What am I missing?

The important aspect of Hebrews 6:1 is that Paul is speaking of the first principles of the doctrine "OF CHRIST" not "OF MOSES." Most commentators go on to interpret these as the doctrine "OF MOSES" rather than "OF CHRIST."

This singular "doctrine" is categorized under three couplets

1. The foundation of Salvation - repentance of dead works and faith toward God (see heb. 2:3-4; 4:2)
2. The foundation of Service - The doctrine of baptisms and laying on of hands
3. The foundation of Second Coming - The resurrection of the dead and eternal judgement.

The first and third should need no explanation. However, the second one does need some explanation.

Jesus taught three types of baptism all related to service.

1. Water baptism introduces you into the assembly - baptism prior to instruction

2. Baptism of suffering for identifying with Christ, Christ's doctrine and Christ's assembly

3. Baptism in the Spirit which provides the proper Historic accreditation of Christ's Assembly as "the house of God."

In regard to "laying on of hands" it refers to those set apart by the assembly (1 Tim. 3:1-13) in order to perpetuate it as the "house of God" and the "pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15) through their preaching and teaching of the truth or teachers of "the faith" that many will depart from (1 Tim. 4:1).

Oh boy, now I have opened a can of worms. Now watch the vultures come a running.

 

[fortytworc]

Your closer but no cigar. Isaiah 61:11 defines only the first aspect of the Great Commission -preaching the gospel and its effects. The second and third aspects of the Great Commission go beyond mere evangelization of the lost.

You are correct that the "another gospel" refers to the gospel of works as there is no gospel that is works plus grace because they cannot be mixed (Rom. 11:6). So there is the gospel of works that masquerades as grace or the gospel of grace.

I take what Jesus came to do as covering much more than evangelism.
1 The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah [is] on Me; because the LORD has anointed Me to preach the Gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound;2 to preach the acceptable year of the LORD.
After first coming to Jesus there is the other stuff. There is crossover, but we need to be about His business with each other, too.
How does $5,000 sound?

 

[Yeshua1]

Think that the Body/Bride/Church of Christ as God defined it means the Universal church of all saints in heaven and on earth, all the redeemed thru the ages who have trusted in jesus to be saved!

 

[The Biblicist]

I take what Jesus came to do as covering much more than evangelism.
1 The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah [is] on Me; because the LORD has anointed Me to preach the Gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound;2 to preach the acceptable year of the LORD.
After first coming to Jesus there is the other stuff. There is crossover, but we need to be about His business with each other, too.
How does $5,000 sound?

Isaiah is speaking merely of the gospel and what it does for the lost. Broken hearted over sin refers to repentance. Poor - refers to poor in spirit. Captives liberated is freed from the condemnation and BONDAGE of sin. This is where the Great Commission begins.

 

[The Biblicist]

Think that the Body/Bride/Church of Christ as God defined it means the Universal church of all saints in heaven and on earth, all the redeemed thru the ages who have trusted in jesus to be saved!

You are confusing the family of God with the church of God. The church had no existence prior to the ministry of Christ but the family of God existed from the garden of Eden.

The church had no "foundation" (Eph. 2:20) before the apostles as the apostles were "set FIRST" in the church (1 Cor. 12:28) rather than the Old Testament saints or prophets.

Second, you are confusing the gospel with the church. The gospel of salvation has been preached since the foundation of the world (Gen. 3;15; Acts 4:12; Jn. 1:29) but the church is a "mystery" to the Old Testament revealed only in the New Testament.

Third, you are confusing being "created in Christ" by regeneration (Eph. 2:10) with metaphorically being "in Christ" or in the body of Christ through water baptism. We are in Christ by election (Eph. 1:4). We are "in Christ" by regeneration (Eph. 2:10). We are "in Christ" representatively by headship (1 Cor. 15:21). We are "in Christ" as metaphorically (1 Cor. 12:27) members. Context defines the difference.

Fourth, you are confusing salvation with service. The gospel has to do with salvation and has always been the same gospel (Acts 10:43; Heb. 4:2) from Genesis to the present but the church has to do with service as metaphorical members in a metaphorical body.

Fifth, you are confusing the present state of New Testament congregations with the future eternal state. Now they are congregations which are the same in faith and practice but distinct from each other. In heaven they will be united as one congregation in the New Jerusalem.

 

[Yeshua1]

You are confusing the family of God with the church of God. The church had no existence prior to the ministry of Christ but the family of God existed from the garden of Eden.

The Church/Body of Christ was instituted at pentacost, and ALL saved by the Lord and added to that number would comprise the "Church of God"

The church had no "foundation" (Eph. 2:20) before the apostles as the apostles were "set FIRST" in the church (1 Cor. 12:28) rather than the Old Testament saints or prophets.

Again, the Church is all who have been saved/called out by God, both those in heaven now and on the earth!

Second, you are confusing the gospel with the church. The gospel of salvation has been preached since the foundation of the world (Gen. 3;15; Acts 4:12; Jn. 1:29) but the church is a "mystery" to the Old Testament revealed only in the New Testament.

Actually, the Mystery that paul had from god is that BOTh jews/gentiles were to be saved by same messiah, and BOTH in the Church body!

Third, you are confusing being "created in Christ" by regeneration (Eph. 2:10) with metaphorically being "in Christ" or in the body of Christ through water baptism. We are in Christ by election (Eph. 1:4). We are "in Christ" by regeneration (Eph. 2:10). We are "in Christ" representatively by headship (1 Cor. 15:21). We are "in Christ" as metaphorically (1 Cor. 12:27) members. Context defines the difference.

I hold that the Apostle paul refers to Spirit Baptism as the means by which one enters into Church of Chrost, not water baptism!

Fourth, you are confusing salvation with service. The gospel has to do with salvation and has always been the same gospel (Acts 10:43; Heb. 4:2) from Genesis to the present but the church has to do with service as metaphorical members in a metaphorical body.

Gospel was proclaimed/preached by jesus and Apostles, not in OT though!

Fifth, you are confusing the present state of New Testament congregations with the future eternal state. Now they are congregations which are the same in faith and practice but distinct from each other. In heaven they will be united as one congregation in the New Jerusalem.

the Church of Christ, Body/bridge is made up of all saints from pentacost forward! God sees the Church as those alive and dead in Christ, not as baptist/Methodist etc!

Think we baptists have tried to distance ourselves so far from being seen as holding to the Universal Church'catholic", that we simple ignore or reinterprete clear biblical passages that state that the Church is all members of Body of christ, those who have been redeemed by God, not to referring JUST to a local assembly of believers!

 

[fortytworc]

You are confusing the family of God with the church of God. The church had no existence prior to the ministry of Christ but the family of God existed from the garden of Eden.

The church had no "foundation" (Eph. 2:20) before the apostles as the apostles were "set FIRST" in the church (1 Cor. 12:28) rather than the Old Testament saints or prophets.

Second, you are confusing the gospel with the church. The gospel of salvation has been preached since the foundation of the world (Gen. 3;15; Acts 4:12; Jn. 1:29) but the church is a "mystery" to the Old Testament revealed only in the New Testament.

Third, you are confusing being "created in Christ" by regeneration (Eph. 2:10) with metaphorically being "in Christ" or in the body of Christ through water baptism. We are in Christ by election (Eph. 1:4). We are "in Christ" by regeneration (Eph. 2:10). We are "in Christ" representatively by headship (1 Cor. 15:21). We are "in Christ" as metaphorically (1 Cor. 12:27) members. Context defines the difference.

Fourth, you are confusing salvation with service. The gospel has to do with salvation and has always been the same gospel (Acts 10:43; Heb. 4:2) from Genesis to the present but the church has to do with service as metaphorical members in a metaphorical body.

Fifth, you are confusing the present state of New Testament congregations with the future eternal state. Now they are congregations which are the same in faith and practice but distinct from each other. In heaven they will be united as one congregation in the New Jerusalem.

If there is a difference in the family of God and the church of God I didn't see the 'family' mentioned in the Body/Bride/Church listed by Yeshua1

 

[fortytworc]

I do enjoy a good, civilized exchange of ideas (the purpose of BB), and maybe what I'm about to say would be better suited for a new thread, but Sometimes don't you feel like an excellent banquet has been set in front of us, and we are missing how great it is because we have decided to always eat all the separate ingredients?

 

[The Biblicist]

Think we baptists have tried to distance ourselves so far from being seen as holding to the Universal Church'catholic", that we simple ignore or reinterprete clear biblical passages that state that the Church is all members of Body of christ, those who have been redeemed by God, not to referring JUST to a local assembly of believers!

1. There is not one word about any church being instituted on Pentecost - not one word. What the Bible does say was that the 3,000 were "added" to the church. What they were "added" to were the list of names given before Pentecost in Acts 1:15. You cannot "add" to something that does not exist already.

2. The same gospel, (Heb. 4:2; Acts 10:32) same regeneration (Jn. 3:9) same justification (Rom. 4:6-9; Gal. 3:6-8) all existed prior to Pentecost. Regeneration is SPIRITUAL UNION with Christ and thus all the elect were "chosen IN him" before the foundation of the world including all the saints from Genesis to Matthew (Rom. 3:24-26) and therefore brought into SPIRITUAL UNION with Christ through regenreation as regeneration is defined as being "created IN Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:1, 5,10).

3. The term "ekklesia" has NEVER been used historically as far as usage to mean "called out of the world" - NEVER! It originates with the city kingdoms of Greece and refers to those qualified citizens called out to assemble as a visible local legislative congregation in its secular use.

4. Spirit baptism has no reference to individual salvation or regeneration or any kind of personal individual application. If that were the case then Peter would have said "since" the beginning not "at" the beginning for the nearest reference point of what he explains to be the baptism in the Spirit that occurred at the hosue of Cornelious (Acts 11:15-16). The baptism in the Spirit was the Old Testament public dedication of the "house of God" divinely accrediting it by God's shikinah glory. It occurred once with each new house "at the beginning." The extraordinary occassion at the house of Corneilus PUBLICALLY ACCREDITED the Gentiles to be approved by God for water baptism in the membership of the congregation at Jerusalem which cause a great stir among its all Jewish membership.

5. The same gospel was proclaimed consistently in the Old Testament and this is explicitly repeatedly stated over and over again by the apostles (Acts 10:43; Heb. 4:2; Acts 26:22-23; 1 Cor. 15:4-5; Gal. 1:8-9 with Gal. 3:6-8; etc.).

 

[Yeshua1]

The Gospel as regarding jesus death and resurrection was NOT preached until pentacost!

there was a 'shadow" of it given to the OT believers, and they placed faith in those promises they were given, but was not the entire Gospel Paul taught, as messiah not arrived and did His work yet!

the Church is seperate from isreal, under a new covenant relationship now...

Jews/gentiles saved by God under Old Covenant NOT part of the new one!

Whether it started with jesus, or at Pentacost, Church refers to all those redeemed by jesus under new Covenant, and are those alive and dead in Christ!

local meeting of the saints are in local churches....

All the saved from all local assemblies together comprise the true 'church of Christ" here on earth!

 

[The Biblicist]

The Gospel as regarding jesus death and resurrection was NOT preached until pentacost!

there was a 'shadow" of it given to the OT believers, and they placed faith in those promises they were given, but was not the entire Gospel Paul taught, as messiah not arrived and did His work yet!

the Church is seperate from isreal, under a new covenant relationship now...

Jews/gentiles saved by God under Old Covenant NOT part of the new one!

Whether it started with jesus, or at Pentacost, Church refers to all those redeemed by jesus under new Covenant, and are those alive and dead in Christ!

local meeting of the saints are in local churches....

All the saved from all local assemblies together comprise the true 'church of Christ" here on earth!

Heb. 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Gal. 3:6 ¶ Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

The gospel, the SAME gospel was preached prior to the cross in according to progressive revelation. It was first preached in Genesis 3:15 by the pre-incarnate Christ in the Garden to Adam and Eve in the summarized form of the promised seed. It was fulfilled in its fullest form in the gospels but is summarized by Paul in 1 Cor. 15:4-5 "according to the scriptuers" - meaning the Old Testament Scriptures. Paul clearly states that Isaiah preached the gospel as revealed in its progressive form in Isaiah 53 as Romans 10:15 claims that Isaiah 53 is the gospel preached by Isaiah.

 

[The Biblicist]

The Gospel as regarding jesus death and resurrection was NOT preached until pentacost!!

Perhaps you need to inform both Christ and Paul to that tidbit of news:

Acts 26:22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

Do you consider John 3:16 and John 3:36 the gospel?? Both were preached before Pentecost.

 

[fortytworc]

1. There is not one word about any church being instituted on Pentecost - not one word. What the Bible does say was that the 3,000 were "added" to the church. What they were "added" to were the list of names given before Pentecost in Acts 1:15. You cannot "add" to something that does not exist already.

2. The same gospel, (Heb. 4:2; Acts 10:32) same regeneration (Jn. 3:9) same justification (Rom. 4:6-9; Gal. 3:6-8) all existed prior to Pentecost. Regeneration is SPIRITUAL UNION with Christ and thus all the elect were "chosen IN him" before the foundation of the world including all the saints from Genesis to Matthew (Rom. 3:24-26) and therefore brought into SPIRITUAL UNION with Christ through regenreation as regeneration is defined as being "created IN Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:1, 5,10).

3. The term "ekklesia" has NEVER been used historically as far as usage to mean "called out of the world" - NEVER! It originates with the city kingdoms of Greece and refers to those qualified citizens called out to assemble as a visible local legislative congregation in its secular use.

4. Spirit baptism has no reference to individual salvation or regeneration or any kind of personal individual application. If that were the case then Peter would have said "since" the beginning not "at" the beginning for the nearest reference point of what he explains to be the baptism in the Spirit that occurred at the hosue of Cornelious (Acts 11:15-16). The baptism in the Spirit was the Old Testament public dedication of the "house of God" divinely accrediting it by God's shikinah glory. It occurred once with each new house "at the beginning." The extraordinary occassion at the house of Corneilus PUBLICALLY ACCREDITED the Gentiles to be approved by God for water baptism in the membership of the congregation at Jerusalem which cause a great stir among its all Jewish membership.

5. The same gospel was proclaimed consistently in the Old Testament and this is explicitly repeatedly stated over and over again by the apostles (Acts 10:43; Heb. 4:2; Acts 26:22-23; 1 Cor. 15:4-5; Gal. 1:8-9 with Gal. 3:6-8; etc.).

on 3-30-2012 I asked you this(I believe in a way that I should not have....)
In this post:
What was this cup that Jesus asked to be able to bypass?

You said:
Partaking of the cup was becoming what he resisted all through his life - becoming sin. It is what the writer of hebrews describes as becoming a "contradiction of sinners against himself" (Heb. 12:3). He was "made to be sin" that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.

The baptism he was baptized with is the suffering in becoming sin for us.

In another post:
What = Baptist

You said [along with comments not about baptism]
...They administer the SAME baptism Christ submitted to (Mt. 3:15-17) and administered through his disciples (Jn. 4:1-2) which was the only "one baptism" (Eph. 4:5) he possibly could have commissioned in Matthew 28:19. No other baptism is according to the counsel of God (Lk. 7:29-30)....
I am sure there is an explanation for this apparent contradiction, but my Question to you is; Was the 'one' baptism of Jesus John the baptists' baptism, or the 'cup' of suffering in becoming sin?

It is quite possible that I have overlooked something in this; therefore, my question. I believe the information you just gave in this current thread may be your answer to my other question. My guess is you've been waiting for the right opportunity. to get back with me on this. whether this is the case or not, Thank You
(I did not doubt for a minute that you had, or would have an explanation)

 

[The Biblicist]

on 3-30-2012 I asked you this(I believe in a way that I should not have....)
In this post:
What was this cup that Jesus asked to be able to bypass?

You said:
Partaking of the cup was becoming what he resisted all through his life - becoming sin. It is what the writer of hebrews describes as becoming a "contradiction of sinners against himself" (Heb. 12:3). He was "made to be sin" that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.

The baptism he was baptized with is the suffering in becoming sin for us.

In another post:
What = Baptist

You said [along with comments not about baptism]
...They administer the SAME baptism Christ submitted to (Mt. 3:15-17) and administered through his disciples (Jn. 4:1-2) which was the only "one baptism" (Eph. 4:5) he possibly could have commissioned in Matthew 28:19. No other baptism is according to the counsel of God (Lk. 7:29-30)....
I am sure there is an explanation for this apparent contradiction, but my Question to you is; Was the 'one' baptism of Jesus John the baptists' baptism, or the 'cup' of suffering in becoming sin?

It is quite possible that I have overlooked something in this; therefore, my question. I believe the information you just gave in this current thread may be your answer to my other question. My guess is you've been waiting for the right opportunity. to get back with me on this. whether this is the case or not, Thank You
(I did not doubt for a minute that you had, or would have an explanation)

Yes, I was talking about different baptisms. Water baptism is the ONLY baptism that a BELIEVER can administer to another person and so it must be the baptism in the Great Commission - Mt. 28:19. This was and is the baptism of John as no other baptism had been commissioned or administered (Lk. 7:29-30; Jn. 4:1-2) prior to Matthew 28:19-20 and this commision is about making disciples according to and observing what he had already "commanded."

The baptism in relationship to the cup was not water baptism or what one person administers to another but was a METAPHORICAL baptism of suffering.

 

[fortytworc]

I think that is the 10,000 dollar question. Just what is that work? I understand the Great Commission to be that work and basically it is to "make disciples" as the verb "teach" in Mt. 28:19 literally means. A disciples is one who follows, submits to the faith and practice of his master. Christ did not commission inovaters!

Christ did not command or commission anyone to go preach ANOTHER gospel than the one and true gospel which has been preached since Genesis 3:15 as any other gospel is accursed.

Christ did not command or commission anyone to to administer ANOTHER baptism than the only one Christ submitted to in Matthew 3:15-17 and God approved in Luke 7:29-30 and the only kind one man can administer to another person and commissioned to do so until the end of the world in Matthew 28:19-20.

Christ did not command or commission anyone to teach and observe another faith and order than that which was delivered by him to his apostles and the apostles delivered to the churches as all who depart "from the faith" are to be withdrawn from (2 Thes. 3:6) and avoided (Rom. 16:17).

Here is the real problem! What is the true gospel, baptism and faith to be observed as commissioned by Christ. Christ did not commission ANOHTHER gospel, baptism and faith than what he actually practiced and commanded or else we have an UNCHRISTLIKE gospel, baptism and doctrine.

This may be minor,but It would be more accurate for me to say "Mixing grace and the Law". This would have gotten the point, concern, and danger across to the 'Christian Jew' in Paul's day.

 

[Alive in Christ]

My goodness, of course the church exists!

Multitudes are part of the church here on earth, while many more multitudes are part of the church in heaven.

 

[The Biblicist]

My goodness, of course the church exists!

Multitudes are part of the church here on earth, while many more multitudes are part of the church in heaven.

Have you read the previous posts? Apparently not! You are confusing the family of God both on earth and heaven with the church of God. They are not synonyms in God's Word.

The family of God can be found from Genesis to Revelation but there is no church of God from Genesis to Matthew. Why? Because God added to his church FIRST the apostles (1 Cor. 12:28). Why? Because the FOUNDATION of the church consists of New Testament apostles and prophets (Eph. 2:20). Why? Because Christ built His church during his public ministry (Mt. 16:18; 18:17; Acts 1:21-22) not before. Why? Because on Pentecost the 3,000 souls were "ADDED UNTO them" who had been habitually assembling together with Christ from the baptism of John (Acts 1:21-22; 2:41,46). Why? Because the "keys of THE KINGDOM" were given to the church (Mt. 18:17-18) and thus the church cannot be the kingdom or family of God. Why? Because the baptism in the Spirit is the common ordinary Old Testament shikinah glory that publically accredited every NEW house of God after the appointed builder had already FINISHED it (Ex. 40:33-34; 2 Chron. 7:1-3; Acts 2:1-2) and was known among the Jews as "The dedication of the House of God" and was an INSTITUTIONAL not an INDIVIDUAL act of God (1 Tim. 3:15).

 

[Yeshua1]

Have you read the previous posts? Apparently not! You are confusing the family of God both on earth and heaven with the church of God. They are not synonyms in God's Word.

The family of God can be found from Genesis to Revelation but there is no church of God from Genesis to Matthew. Why? Because God added to his church FIRST the apostles (1 Cor. 12:28). Why? Because the FOUNDATION of the church consists of New Testament apostles and prophets (Eph. 2:20). Why? Because Christ built His church during his public ministry (Mt. 16:18; 18:17; Acts 1:21-22) not before. Why? Because on Pentecost the 3,000 souls were "ADDED UNTO them" who had been habitually assembling together with Christ from the baptism of John (Acts 1:21-22; 2:41,46). Why? Because the "keys of THE KINGDOM" were given to the church (Mt. 18:17-18) and thus the church cannot be the kingdom or family of God. Why? Because the baptism in the Spirit is the common ordinary Old Testament shikinah glory that publically accredited every NEW house of God after the appointed builder had already FINISHED it (Ex. 40:33-34; 2 Chron. 7:1-3; Acts 2:1-2) and was known among the Jews as "The dedication of the House of God" and was an INSTITUTIONAL not an INDIVIDUAL act of God (1 Tim. 3:15).

The Church of Christ is the bride/body of christ!
from time of ministry of jesus and Apostles until last person save dunder this current Age of Grace...


So the "family" of God of believers saved during the Age of grace forward would be his church!

 

[Alive in Christ]

Biblicist...

You are simply wrong.

The "Church" is all of the redeemed, for all time. Some are in heaven now, while others...such as you and I...are still here on earth.

But we are all members if the Church..meaning the universal church.

And of course, all members of the universal church should also, if possible, gather together regularly with other christians with a local church.