Need to update, as the church met together first day of the week to worship and hear the Apostles teachings! Per ActsActs 15:21
For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
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Need to update, as the church met together first day of the week to worship and hear the Apostles teachings! Per ActsActs 15:21
For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Need to read scripture carefully...Here is a excerpt I posted in the other thread from a book by Kenneth A. Strand, The Sabbath in Scripture and History.Need to update, as the church met together first day of the week to worship and hear the Apostles teachings! Per Acts
Sunday was accepted as new Day of the Lord, as Sabbath was given to Israel under OC, but we worship the risen Lord on His resurrection day, Sunday, uner the NC!......Acts 20:7, "On the first day of the week, when we met to break bread, Paul was holding a discussion with them; since he intended to leave the next day, he continued speaking until midnight."Since the meeting was held at night on the first day of the week, it may have been Saturday night. According to Jewish reckoning, the Sabbath ended and the first day of the week began at sundown of the seventh day. If it were Sunday evening, the event gives no suggestion that Sunday should be observed as a day of worship. The following verses record that Paul preached a sermon on Thursday. The next day after the meeting recorded in Acts 20:7 (Monday), Paul and his party set sail for Mitylene (Acts 20:13, 14). The following day (Tuesday) they arrived opposite Chios (verse 15). The next day (Wednesday) they passed Samos (verse 15), and the day after that (Thursday) they arrived at Miletus (verse 15). The elders of the church of Ephesus met Paul at Miletus, and he preached to them (Acts 20:16-36). Because a Christian service was held on Thursday, do we conclude that Thursday is a day for regular Christian worship replacing the observance of the seventh-day Sabbath? A religious service on Sunday, Thursday, or any other day certainly did not make that day a replacement for the seventh-day Sabbath or a day of regular Christian worship and rest. There is no special significance in the disciples breaking bread at this first-day meeting, for they broke bread "daily" (Acts 2:46). We are not told that it was a Lord's Supper celebration, nor are we told that henceforth Sunday should be the day for this service to be conducted. To read Sunday sacredness or Sunday observance into Acts 20:7 is to do violence to the text.
1 Corinthians 16:1, 2, "Now concerning the collection for the saints: you should follow the directions I gave the churches of Galatia. On the first day of every week, each of you is to put aside and save whatever extra you earn, so that collections need not be taken when I come. And when I arrive, I will send any whom you approve with letters to take your gift to Jerusalem."These verses may be literally translated from the Greek as follows: "And concerning the collection for the saints, as I instructed the churches of Galatia, so also you do. On the first day of the week let each of you place (or 'lay') by himself, storing up whatever he might be prospered, so that when I come there might be no collections." (Italics supplied.) The phrase "by himself" (par' heauto), followed by the participle "storing up" or "saving" (thesaupizon), rules out the possibility that this is a reference to an offering taken up in a worship service. The Christian believer was to check his accounts on Sunday and put by at home the money that he wished to give to Paul for the support of the church. When Paul arrived, then the offerings of each individual would be collected.
None of these eight New Testament references to the first day of the week (Sunday), provides any evidence that Jesus or His disciples changed the day of worship from the seventh to the first day. Nor is the first day of the week represented as a time to memorialize the resurrection of Christ. Whatever special significance was given to Sunday in the later history of the church, it had no basis in the teaching or practice of Jesus and His apostles.
As pointed out in the previous chapter, Jesus instructed His disciples to observe the Sabbath after His death (Matt. 24:20). Jesus' instruction was incorporated into His interpretation of Daniel 8 (compare Matthew 24:15 ff.). Daniel predicted that the work of the little horn power would continue until the setting up of God's kingdom (Dan. 8:25). Hence, Jesus' instruction to flee from the little horn power was not confined to Christians at the time of the destruction of Jerusalem (A.D. 70). Toward the end of time, during the great tribulation of Matthew 24:21, of which earlier tribulations were a type or preview, God's people will be obliged to flee again. Jesus' instruction that we pray that our flight will not be on the Sabbath day emphasizes His will that we engage in only those activities on the Sabbath that are consistent with worship and spiritual rest.
The record of the book of Acts (chapters 13, 16 &18) establishes that the apostles consistently kept the Sabbath day as a time for worship and fellowship. This observance was not merely a means of meeting the Jews in the synagogue on their Sabbath day. In Philippi, Paul and his companions met for worship by the riverside. Luke says, "On the sabbath day we went outside the gate to the riverside, where we supposed [or "thought" or "assumed" : Greek nomizo] there was a place for prayer. . . ." (Acts 16:13). The apostles selected a place by the river that they thought would be appropriate for their Sabbath worship service, and there they prayed and witnessed for their Lord.
Jesus and the apostles kept the seventh-day Sabbath and instructed others to do likewise, so it wasn't changed by them....."STRAND, Kenneth A. The Sabbath in Scripture and History.pdf | Genesis Creation Narrative | Shabbat
Often arguments or claims are made without explanation or Scriptural support. The simple fact is professing Christians have met on the first day of the week by reason of the resurrection of Christ on the first day of the week. Also the Sabbath remains the 7th day. It was given to the nation of Israel as a sign between God and them. The first mention is the 5 books attributed to Moses.Well, the problem is that people keep coming up with different 'ideas' to give as reasons, and as soon as you show one is not scriptural, they go to another. So rather than go from one to another in a endless cycle, better to cover them and go from there..
And there is No NT passage that commands the Church to still keep the Jewish Sabbath....Often arguments or claims are made without explanation or Scriptural support. The simple fact is professing Christians have met on the first day of the week by reason of the resurrection of Christ on the first day of the week. Also the Sabbath remains the 7th day. It was given to the nation of Israel as a sign between God and them. The first mention is the 5 books attributed to Moses.
I think Christ made it clear...And there is No NT passage that commands the Church to still keep the Jewish Sabbath....
Well, the problem is that people keep coming up with different 'ideas' to give as reasons, and as soon as you show one is not scriptural, they go to another. So rather than go from one to another in a endless cycle, better to cover them and go from there..
Matthew 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.I think Christ made it clear...
Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Come now, that is a bit much, even for you...Two things, one you have never shown anything to be not scriptural. Second, I hope you keep posting these long diatribes. No one reads posts that long on this board. Lastly, who do you think you are going to convince here?
Hard to break anything thre Lord did not command us to Keep now in the NT!I think Christ made it clear...
Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
He says quite the opposite...Matthew 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
Jesus allowed us to "break" the sabbath.
What was his great commandment? Love each other just as he loved them!He says quite the opposite...
John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
The question then has to be, is that Easter as we have already shown its origin. And we can see its not Easter, so then does scripture itself 'mandate' as you say Sunday as the Sabbath.Definitely not going to read that entire OP, but I think the Communion on the first day mandates a gathering on Sunday. No way around it.
The question then has to be, is that Easter as we have already shown its origin. And we can see its not Easter, so then does scripture itself 'mandate' as you say Sunday as the Sabbath.
Here is a good list to go over....
1st Century
"But pray ye that your flight be not in winter, neither on the Sabbath day." Jesus, Matthew 24:20
Josephus
"There is not any city of the Grecians, nor any of the Barbarians, nor any nation whatsoever, whither our custom of resting on the seventh day hath not come!" M'Clatchie, "Notes and Queries on China and Japan" (edited by Dennys), Vol 4, Nos 7, 8, p.100.
Philo
Declares the seventh day to be a festival, not of this or of that city, but of the universe. M'Clatchie, "Notes and Queries," Vol. 4, 99
2nd Century
"It is certain that the ancient Sabbath did remain and was observed (together with the celebration of the Lord's day) by the Christians of the East Church, above three hundred years after our Saviour's death." - A Learned Treatise of the Sabbath, p. 77
Early Christians
"The primitive Christians had a great veneration for the Sabbath, and spent the day in devotion and sermons. And it is not to be doubted but they derived this practice from the Apostles themselves, as appears by several scriptures to the purpose." "Dialogues on the Lord's Day," p. 189. London: 1701, By Dr. T.H. Morer (A Church of England divine).
"...The Sabbath was a strong tie which united them with the life of the whole people, and in keeping the Sabbath holy they followed not only the example but also the command of Jesus." "Geschichte des Sonntags," pp.13, 14
"The primitive Christians did keep the
Sabbath of the Jews
;...therefore the Christians, for a long time together, did keep their conventions upon the Sabbath, in which some portions of the law were read: and this continued till the time of the Laodicean council." "The Whole Works" of Jeremy Taylor, Vol. IX,p. 416 (R. Heber's Edition, Vol XII, p. 416).
2nd Century Christians
"The Gentile Christians observed also the Sabbath," Gieseler's "Church History," Vol.1, ch. 2, par. 30, 93.
3rd Century
"The seventh-day Sabbath was...solemnised by Christ, the Apostles, and primitive Christians, till the Laodicean Council did in manner quite abolish the observations of it." Dissertation on the Lord's Day, pp. 33, 34
Egypt (Oxyrhynchus Papyrus) (200-250 A.D.)
"Except ye make the sabbath a real sabbath (sabbatize the Sabbath," Greek), ye shall not see the Father." "The oxyrhynchus Papyri," pt,1, p.3, Logion 2, verso 4-11 (London Offices of the Egypt Exploration Fund, 1898).
Early Christians-C 3rd
"Thou shalt observe the Sabbath, on account of Him who ceased from His work of creation, but ceased not from His work of providence: it is a rest for meditation of the law, not for idleness of the hands." "The Anti-Nicene Fathers," Vol 7,p. 413. From "Constitutions of the Holy Apostles," a document of the 3rd and 4th Centuries.
Africa (Alexandria) Origen
"After the festival of the unceasing sacrifice (the crucifixion) is put the second festival of the Sabbath, and it is fitting for whoever is righteous among the saints to keep also the festival of the Sabbath. There remaineth therefore a sabbatismus, that is, a keeping of the Sabbath, to the people of God (Hebrews 4:9)." "Homily on Numbers 23," par.4, in Migne, "Patrologia Graeca," Vol. 12,cols. 749, 750.
Palestine to India (Church of the East)
As early as A.D. 225 there existed lallrge bishoprics or conferences of the Church of the East (
Sabbath-keeping
) stretching from Palestine to India. Mingana, "Early Spread of Christianity." Vol.10, p. 460.
India (Buddhist Controversy, 220 A.D.)
The Kushan Dynasty of North India called a famous council of Buddhist priests at Vaisalia to bring uniformity among the Buddhist monks on the observance of their
weekly Sabbath
. Some had been so impressed by the writings of the Old Testament that they had begun to keep holy the Sabbath. Lloyd, "The Creed of Half Japan," p. 23.
2nd, 3rd, 4th Centuries
"From the apostles' time until the council of Laodicea, which was about the year 364, the holy observance of the Jews' Sabbath continued, as may be proved out of many authors: yea, notwithstanding the decree of the council against it." "Sunday a Sabbath." John Ley, p.163. London: 1640.
4th Century
"When you are in Rome, do as Rome does." Ambrose, the celebrated bishop of Milan gave rise to this proverb by stating that when he was in Milan he observed Saturday, but when in Rome he observed Sunday. (See page 70 in this Online version of Truth Triumphant)
Italy AND EAST-C 4th
"It was the practice generally of the Easterne Churches; and some churches of the west...For in the Church of Millaine (Milan);...it seems the Saturday was held in a farre esteeme... Not that the Easterne Churches, or any of the rest which observed that day, were inclined to Iudaisme (Judaism); but that they came together on the Sabbath day, to worship Iesus (Jesus) Christ the
Lord of the Sabbath
." "History of the Sabbath" (original spelling retained), Part 2, par. 5, pp.73, 74. London: 1636. Dr. Heylyn.
Italy - Milan
"Ambrose, the celebrated bishop of Milan, said that when he was in Milan he observed Saturday, but when in Rome observed Sunday. This gave rise to the proverb, 'When you are in Rome, do as Rome does.'" Heylyn, "The History of the Sabbath" (1612)
Orient And Most Of World
"The ancient Christians were very careful in the observance of Saturday, or the
seventh day
...It is plain that all the Oriental churches, and the greatest part of the world, observed the Sabbath as a festival...Athanasius likewise tells us that they held religious assembles on the Sabbath, not because they were infected with Judaism, but to worship Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath, Epiphanius says the same." "Antiquities of the Christian Church," Vol.II Book XX, chap. 3, sec.1, 66. 1137,1138.
Abyssinia - Remnants of Philip's Evangelism
"In the last half of that century St. Ambrose of Milan stated officially that the Abyssinian bishop, Museus, had 'traveled almost everywhere in the country of the Seres' (China). For more than seventeen centuries the Abyssinian Church continued to sanctify Saturday as the holy day of the fourth commandment." Ambrose, DeMoribus, Brachmanorium Opera Ominia, 1132, found in Migne, Patrologia Latima, Vol.17, pp.1131,1132.
Arabia, Persia, India, China
"Mingana proves that in 370 A.D. Abyssinian Christianity (a Sabbath keeping church) was so popular that its famous director, Musacus, travelled extensively in the East promoting the church in Arabia, Persia, India and China." "Truth Triumphant,"p.308 (Footnote 27). (Page numbers vary in this Online version of Truth Triumphant)
Spain - Council Elvira (A.D.305)
Canon 26 of the Council of Elvira reveals that the Church of Spainat that time kept Saturday, the
seventh day
. "As to fasting every Sabbath: Resolved, that the error be corrected of fasting every Sabbath." This resolution of the council is in direct opposition to the policy the church at Rome had inaugurated, that of commanding Sabbath as a fast day in order to humiliate it and make it repugnant to the people.
It just goes on and on...... 4th Century
..........19th Century
"But the majority moved to the Crimea and the Caucasus, where they remain true to their doctrine in spite of persecution until this present time. The people call them Subotniki, or Sabbatarians", Sternberg, "Geschichte der Juden in Polen," p.124
China
"At this time Hung prohibited the use of opium, and even tobacco, and all intoxicating drinks, and the Sabbath was religiously observed." The Ti-Ping Revolution," by Llin-Le, and officer among them, Vol. 1, pp.36-48, 84
"The seventh day is most religiously and strictly observed. The Taiping Sabbath is kept upon our Saturday." P. 319
"The Taipings when asked why they observed the
seventh day Sabbath
, replied that it was, first, because the Bible taught it, and, second, because their ancestors observed it as a day of worship." A Critical History of the Sabbath and the Sunday.
India and Persia
"Besides, they maintain the solemn observance of Christian worship throughout our Empire, on the seventh day." Christian Researches in Asia," p.143 ....19th Century