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Does the day of Christ resurrection tell us to worship on Sunday?

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
We do not ignore at all. We understand them according to 1 Cor. 10:11, and 1 Cor 15:46. We understand type to antitype. And when you would like an explanation, please ask.
Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

Ok. I know how some like ordered lists, so hear goes:

[1.] To begin with, there is not a single place in all the TaNaKh, neither the portion thereof, the Torah (Gen-Deut) where God, Moses, Joshua, or any person of heaven above, or on this earth below, state on biblical record that there are exactly '613' 'mitzvot'. For the New Testament minded (Matt-Rev), the same applies also. Again, absent. Jesus, as a final example (for the New Testament minded), did not once enumerate the 'mitzvot' of the Torah for us in such fashion, to '613' or any other such number.

[2.] The enumeration of '613' is a Rabbincal, yea even after a Talmudical, fashioning or calculation or enumeration. No one has to take my word for this, it is said as much on the very site so kindly provided to us (it has been provided so many times, I lost count):

"... Below is a list of the 613 mitzvot (commandments). It is based primarily on the list compiled by Rambam in the Mishneh Torah, but I have consulted other sources as well. As I said in the page on halakhah, Rambam's list is probably the most widely accepted list, but it is not the only one. The order is my own, as are the explanations of how some rules are derived from some biblical passages. ..." - Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

As a side note:

The RaMBaM (whom I have read on numerous occasions, with others, such as RaMBaN, Pirke, etc) is actually, Ra(bbi) M(oses) Ba(ni) M(aimon), aka Maimonides, of the 12th cent Morocco & Egypt (during the Almoravid (Muslim) empire, and died under the Ayyubid sultanate) - Link

[3.] RaMBaM's listing isn't the only one. There are other listings, by other Rabbis, all several thousand years removed from Moses or Joshua, and the website provided demonstrates the accuracy of this point.

[4.] RaMBaM's order of listing isn't the only one. There are other orderings, by other Rabbis and persons non-Rabbi (scholars, etc), and again, the very website provided, demonstrates this by stating it out as matters of fact, and in personal ordered listing preferred instead to RaMBaM's (example 2 orders at least on the face of it).

[5.] RaMBaM's explanation for the listing and ordering thereof is not the only one. There are explanations, just as there are other listings and orderings by other Rabbis, etc. (generally, not exclusively, following after RaMBaM, (thus post 12th cent), possible just more easily accessible)

[6.] The '613' number is for some calculated on Gematraic principles, with differing reasons or starting points by differing Rabbis, and for this reason, some disagree that it should be said number, for instance:

"... I disagree there are 613 Mitzvot because the explanation for the number is based on gematria, however the gematria of the Torah is not Standard ( Long preview of 'The Genesis Wheel: & other hermeneutical essays'. ). Instead of the letters Shin and Tav having the value of 300 and 400, they are valued at 3 and 4, and using this most secret gematria the number of Mitzvot would be 217 (31 × 7). However 613 is discovered with this gematria in the opening verses of Genesis so it is still a very significant gematria number.

We first get the idea of 613 mitzvot from Rabbi Simlai:

From Makkot 24a:

"דרש רבי שמלאי שש מאות ושלש עשרה מצות נאמרו לו למשה שלש מאות וששים וחמש לאוין כמנין ימות החמה ומאתים וארבעים ושמונה עשה כנגד איבריו של אדם אמר רב המנונא מאי קרא (דברים לג, ד) תורה צוה לנו משה מורשה תורה בגימטריא שית מאה וחד סרי הוי אנכי ולא יהיה לך מפי הגבורה שמענום

§ Rabbi Simlai taught: There were 613 mitzvot stated to Moses in the Torah, consisting of 365 prohibitions corresponding to the number of days in the solar year, and 248 positive mitzvot corresponding to the number of a person’s limbs. Rav Hamnuna said: What is the verse that alludes to this? It is written: “Moses commanded to us the Torah, an inheritance of the congregation of Jacob” (Deuteronomy 34:4). The word Torah, in terms of its numerical value [gimatriyya], is 611, the number of mitzvot that were received and taught by Moses our teacher. In addition, there are two mitzvot: “I am the Lord your God” and: “You shall have no other gods” (Exodus 20:2, 3), the first two of the Ten Commandments, that we heard from the mouth of the Almighty, for a total of 613."[1]

However the word תורה is valued at 215; Tav:4 + Vav:6 + Resh:200 + Heh:5 = 215. So if we add the two for the first two commandments the people heard at Sinai: 215 + 2 = 217.

Regarding the number of צִיצִית which is supposed to equal the number of Mitzvot:

Rashi "וזכרתם את כל מצות ה'. שֶׁמִּנְיַן גִּימַטְרִיָּא שֶׁל צִיצִית שֵׁשׁ מֵאוֹת, וּשְׁמוֹנָה חוּטִין וַחֲמִשָּׁה קְשָׁרִים הֲרֵי תרי"ג (תנחומא): You will remember all of Adonoy’s commandments. As the numerical value of צִיצִית is 600, and the eight threads and five knots equal 613."[2]

צִיצִית = 204

plus 8 threads and 5 knots = 217.

You can check the sums on this gematria calculator which uses the correct gematria of the Torah; Shematria

Vilna Gaon in Orot Hagra also disagreed that 613 was the correct number, saying;

It definitely cannot be said that only 613, and no more, come under the category of mitzvot. For if so, there are only three mitzvot from Berei**** until Bo, and many portions of the Torah contain no mitzvot. That is not plausible… The mitzvot are thus multitudinous beyond enumeration… ..." - Are there really 613 Mitzvot? : Gematria
you do what you accuse others of doing, you are self condemned.
 

Adonia

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
As I have stated, so-called 'Jews' (Sephardic and Ashkenazic) cannot actually keep the Sabbath holy, as they reject the Lord (Jesus) of the Sabbath.

Now you know more about sabbath keeping than the Jews themselves? Good heavens, who would have ever thought that the greatest theologian who ever lived is posting right here on Baptist Board. Amazing, simply amazing!
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Scripture clearly teaches that under the new covenant there are no distinctions of days.

“having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out that way, nailing it to the cross; having despoiled the principalities and the powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day: which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Christ's.” (Colossians 2:14-17 ASV)

“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord: and he that eateth, eateth unto the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, unto the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and none dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; or whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.” (Romans 14:5-9 ASV)

Thanx, Noah, for re-iterating what several others of us have posted. While I was wrong for berating non-Jewish Saturday worshippers, we are not wrong in calling them down, especially those of the SDA cult, for telling us we are sinners for having church services on Sunday.

The SADs don't worship on Saturday outta any real Scriptural reason - they do so from the writings of their guru, the charlatan Ellen G. White.
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
So does the resurrection change the day of the Sabbath, well the problem is that God never told anyone to keep Sunday in honor of the resurrection of Christ, or for any other reason.
Hobie,
The resurrection changes everything.

The Law was fulfilled by Christ ( Matthew 5:17 ).
The Sabbath was part of the Mosaic Law ( Exodus 20:8 ).

The Law ( the "Old Testament" ) has been abolished in Christ's flesh ( Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:13-14 ), and we do not keep it to gain blessings from God.
We as believers have the privilege to either regard the days to the Lord, or not to ( Romans 14:6 ).
The reason believers assemble on the first day of the week, is out of tradition, not compulsion.
That source for the tradition is here:

John 20:19, Acts of the Apostles 20:7.

Finally,
The Law of Moses has one purpose for believers in Christ...
As a schoolmaster to guide us to Him ( Galatians 3:24 ), knowing that we are unable to keep it ( Romans 3:10-12, James 2:10 ).

Other than by the blood of Christ there is no other way to be in God's favor...all have sinned ( Romans 3:23 ).
The keeping of the Sabbath serves no purpose under the new testament of grace...
We can assemble together any day of the week, if we want.

The Lord never told anyone when to gather together, but we are to worship Him all the time:

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. " ( Matthew 22:40 ).

Under the new testament in His blood, there is no set day to worship Him like there was under the Law of Moses, neither do we as believers have a temple.
We are the temple ( 1 Corinthians 6:19 ).

I encourage you to take your eyes off the Law, and put them on Christ and His finished work on the cross.
 

37818

Well-Known Member
Jesus healed a man on the Sabbath day, John 5:9.
John 5:17-18, ". . . But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. . . ."
 

Alofa Atu

Well-Known Member
you are cutting up the law into pieces which the bible does not do.
Yes it does. Isaiah 8:20. "To the Law" (God's Ten Commandments spoken directly by God) "and" (in addition to) "the testimony" (that which was given through men).
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yes it does. Isaiah 8:20. "To the Law" (God's Ten Commandments spoken directly by God) "and" (in addition to) "the testimony" (that which was given through men).
baloney - why did you find it necessary to put things in parenthesis!?

BECAUSE THEY AREN'T THERE!
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
"...The word Sunday is not found in the Bible.

While the word Sunday may not be found in the Church of England's King James Version, it is found in at least a couple of the pre-1611 English Bibles of which the KJV is a revision.
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sir, what part of:

Col_2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

do you not understand?

Paul settled it, yet the Pharisees live on.

Is it interesting to see some KJV-only advocates contradicting the claims of other KJV-only advocates, demonstrating that any generalization that KJV-only advocates are in agreement in their view of the Bible would not be true?

You are not my final authority in all matters of faith and practice, but yet, inspired and preserved scripture, the KJB, is.

Evidently, agreeing together on the non-scriptural claims that the KJV is inspired or perfect does not lead to any agreement on sound doctrine and non-sound doctrine. It would also suggest that holding to a KJV-only view is not evidence that a person holds to sound Bible doctrine.
 
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utilyan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Acts 15
19“Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles, 20but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. 21“For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

It had to be explained to the gentiles that Jews read scripture on every sabbath because the Christians weren't doing it themselves.

Also it would be nice if those who against Sunday worship explain how they actually keep sabbath. They never do because it involves unbiblical activities that have nothing to do with keeping sabbath.
 

alexander284

Well-Known Member
I once met a SDA couple who said they eat out Saturdays, to avoid violating the Sabbath.

So ... it's ok to take advantage of those who work Saturdays, so that you can avoid violating the Sabbath?
 

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
Is it interesting to see some KJV-only advocates contradicting the claims of other KJV-only advocates, demonstrating that any generalization that KJV-only advocates are in agreement in their view of the Bible would not be true?

Hunh? How did the KJB come into this?
 

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Scripture clearly teaches that under the new covenant there are no distinctions of days.

“having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out that way, nailing it to the cross; having despoiled the principalities and the powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day: which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Christ's.” (Colossians 2:14-17 ASV)

“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord: and he that eateth, eateth unto the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, unto the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and none dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; or whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.” (Romans 14:5-9 ASV)
So are we free to transgress the 10 Commandments?
 

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Hobie,
The resurrection changes everything.

The Law was fulfilled by Christ ( Matthew 5:17 ).
The Sabbath was part of the Mosaic Law ( Exodus 20:8 ).

The Law ( the "Old Testament" ) has been abolished in Christ's flesh ( Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:13-14 ), and we do not keep it to gain blessings from God.
We as believers have the privilege to either regard the days to the Lord, or not to ( Romans 14:6 ).
The reason believers assemble on the first day of the week, is out of tradition, not compulsion.
That source for the tradition is here:

John 20:19, Acts of the Apostles 20:7.

Finally,
The Law of Moses has one purpose for believers in Christ...
As a schoolmaster to guide us to Him ( Galatians 3:24 ), knowing that we are unable to keep it ( Romans 3:10-12, James 2:10 ).

Other than by the blood of Christ there is no other way to be in God's favor...all have sinned ( Romans 3:23 ).
The keeping of the Sabbath serves no purpose under the new testament of grace...
We can assemble together any day of the week, if we want.

The Lord never told anyone when to gather together, but we are to worship Him all the time:

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. " ( Matthew 22:40 ).

Under the new testament in His blood, there is no set day to worship Him like there was under the Law of Moses, neither do we as believers have a temple.
We are the temple ( 1 Corinthians 6:19 ).

I encourage you to take your eyes off the Law, and put them on Christ and His finished work on the cross.
Christ said it over and over and we shall even have the Sabbath in heaven as scripture makes clear.

Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Isaiah 66:22-24
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
 

Marooncat79

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
They always say that people whi worship on Sunday are affliated w the mark of the beast

Our comments should be- Where do you see that in scripture

As for righteousness, I cannot remember, but I believe that they think that they are sinless after conversion - to which we point to I John 1:9, and what is referred to as the Lords prayer in Matthew “forgive us our sins” which according to Jesus should be prayed daily “give us this day our daily bread”
 
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