Does the Holy Spirit Speak and Act Himself then?

[AustinC]

@Yeshua1 & @John of Japan

Reprove by scripture or don't.

Look at all the other Bible versions in what John 16:13 is saying & meaning.

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. NIV

Is that the truth that the Holy Spirit will only speak what He hears?

John 16:13The Spirit of truth will come and guide you in all truth. He will not speak His own words to you; He will speak what He hears, revealing to you the things to come .. The Voice

Is that true that the Holy Spirit will not speak His own words to you?

John 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. ESV

Is that true the Holy Spirit will not speak on His own authority?

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come. ASV

So the Holy Spirit cannot speak from Himself but speak what He hears as the words are not His own words but from Christ Jesus as I read it with His help in the KJV.

Romans 8:26-27 shows us that the Spirit very clearly prays for us. Since the Holy Spirit is God, he intercedes according to the Godhead.

Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Hark, you are making claims that you interpret out of context and then declare that your opinion is the law. Your legalism is in every post in every thread where you write. I pray that one day you will understand God's grace.

 

[Hark]

Romans 8:26-27 shows us that the Spirit very clearly prays for us. Since the Holy Spirit is God, he intercedes according to the Godhead.

Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Hark, you are making claims that you interpret out of context and then declare that your opinion is the law. Your legalism is in every post in every thread where you write. I pray that one day you will understand God's grace.

Since scripture does not go against scripture, you are reading Romans 8:26-27 in the KJV wrong because it says not even His groanings can be uttered; hence He cannot speak for Himself by uttering His groanings.

So how you apply Romans 8:26-27 to mean goes against what ALL Bible versions is telling you. So ask Him .

Some modern bibles run contrary to what John 16:13 in that Bible version is saying but not the KJV whereas some modern Bibles keep the truth as aligned with John 16:13 as the KJV does.

So pay attention and discern with Him, brother, for we are in the latter days where faith is hard to find.

 

[AustinC]

Since scripture does not go against scripture, you are reading Romans 8:26-27 in the KJV wrong because it says not even His groanings can be uttered; hence He cannot speak for Himself by uttering His groanings.

So how you apply Romans 8:26-27 to mean goes against what ALL Bible versions is telling you. So ask Him .

Some modern bibles run contrary to what John 16:13 in that Bible version is saying but not the KJV whereas some modern Bibles keep the truth as aligned with John 16:13 as the KJV does.

So pay attention and discern with Him, brother, for we are in the latter days where faith is hard to find.

LOL, scripture does not go against scripture, I agree. However, the text says...

Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

The text speaks for itself. Since scripture does not go against scripture, it is clear you have an incorrect interpretation of other verses regarding the Holy Spirit.

 

[Hark]

LOL, scripture does not go against scripture, I agree. However, the text says...

Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

The text speaks for itself. Since scripture does not go against scripture, it is clear you have an incorrect interpretation of other verses regarding the Holy Spirit.

That is the NIV and not the KJV as they are not saying the same thing.

Compare that with John 16:13 in the NIV and may God give you pause.

Note the grammatical error in Romans 8:27 in the NIV where he is separated from us that searches our hearts is separated from the Spirit in knowing the mind of. Therefore the conclusion of that verse cannot switch out the "he" with "the Spirit", now can it?

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. NIV

Now look at Romans 8:26-27 in the KJV

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

So check again, brother, but asking Him for wisdom to see it and why apostasy is abounding in the latter days for why faith is hard to find.

 

[AustinC]

John 16:8-11,13-15

And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

We see the Godhead, in unity, communicating harmoniously. Three individual person's and one being functioning unilaterally. None subordinate to the other. Each one speaking on their own with complete unanimity.

Hark, you are hiding behind the KJV and using it as a crutch to make God the Holy Spirit less than what He is and thus tell God what he can or cannot do. Your legalism is revealed.

 

[AustinC]

That is the NIV and not the KJV as they are not saying the same thing.

Compare that with John 16:13 in the NIV and may God give you pause.

Note the grammatical error in Romans 8:27 in the NIV where he is separated from us that searches our hearts is separated from the Spirit in knowing the mind of. Therefore the conclusion of that verse cannot switch out the "he" with "the Spirit", now can it?

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. NIV

Now look at Romans 8:26-27 in the KJV

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

So check again, brother, but asking Him for wisdom to see it and why apostasy is abounding in the latter days for why faith is hard to find.

It's not the NIV, Hark. It is the ESV, which is regarded as the most accurate to the Greek translation of all the English translations. You are leaning on a crutch to hold up your legalism and reject God the Holy Spirit's authority to speak on his own.

 

[Hark]

John 16:8-11,13-15

Left out of quote for easier reading.

And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

We see the Godhead, in unity, communicating harmoniously. Three individual person's and one being functioning unilaterally. None subordinate to the other. Each one speaking on their own with complete unanimity.

I boldened & underlined that portion of the verse you had referenced as your choice of Bible version to post that opposes your statement in your second quote.

Hark, you are hiding behind the KJV and using it as a crutch to make God the Holy Spirit less than what He is and thus tell God what he can or cannot do. Your legalism is revealed.

I am not. You are not reading what is plainly written & why. Did you forget the Son's prayer request to the Father in the Gethsemane?

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

There is an authority and it is the Father's will be done and not the Son's nor the Holy Spirit's.

How the Holy Spirit spoke when Christ was on earth was as the Spirit of the Father through His disciples.

Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Now all power has been given to Christ after His resurrection, but still under the Father's will as He answers prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers whenever the Father says "Yes" to any intercessions given to the Father for why Jesus is the only Mediator between God & men.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me....13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

All that the Holy Spirit does in ministry and even as given by Jesus to answer prayers, the Holy Spirit gives the credit & the glory to Jesus Christ plainly in scripture and so should you.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ for why all power as in authority as the Head of the Church is given to Jesus Christ as He answers prayers STILL in relations to the Father as it is His will that be done for how Christ answers prayers..

 

[Hark]

It's not the NIV, Hark. It is the ESV, which is regarded as the most accurate to the Greek translation of all the English translations. You are leaning on a crutch to hold up your legalism and reject God the Holy Spirit's authority to speak on his own.

Reposting your Bible versions of John 16:13-15 from your post # 66 in this thread where it cites authority from which the Holy Spirit does not speak from Himself.

When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

Did you forget the Son's prayer request to the Father in the Gethsemane?

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

There is an authority and it is the Father's will be done and not the Son's nor the Holy Spirit's.

How the Holy Spirit spoke when Christ was on earth was as the Spirit of the Father through His disciples.

Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Now all power has been given to Christ after His resurrection, but still under the Father's will as He answers prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers whenever the Father says "Yes" to any intercessions given to the Father for why Jesus is the only Mediator between God & men.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me....13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

All that the Holy Spirit does in ministry and even as given by Jesus to answer prayers, the Holy Spirit gives the credit & the glory to Jesus Christ plainly in scripture and so should you.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ for why all power as in authority as the Head of the Church is given to Jesus Christ as He answers prayers STILL in relations to the Father as it is His will that be done for how Christ answers prayers..

 

[AustinC]

Left out of quote for easier reading.

And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.



I boldened & underlined that portion of the verse you had referenced as your choice of Bible version to post that opposes your statement in your second quote.



I am not. You are not reading what is plainly written & why. Did you forget the Son's prayer request to the Father in the Gethsemane?

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

There is an authority and it is the Father's will be done and not the Son's nor the Holy Spirit's.

How the Holy Spirit spoke when Christ was on earth was as the Spirit of the Father through His disciples.

Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Now all power has been given to Christ after His resurrection, but still under the Father's will as He answers prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers whenever the Father says "Yes" to any intercessions given to the Father for why Jesus is the only Mediator between God & men.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me....13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

All that the Holy Spirit does in ministry and even as given by Jesus to answer prayers, the Holy Spirit gives the credit & the glory to Jesus Christ plainly in scripture and so should you.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ for why all power as in authority as the Head of the Church is given to Jesus Christ as He answers prayers STILL in relations to the Father as it is His will that be done for how Christ answers prayers..

You are attempting to make Jesus and the Holy Spirit subordinate to the Father.

Either, you are not being truthful when you say you're trinitarian, or you simply cannot grasp how the Father, Son and Spirit are one being and also three distinct person's. Because that perplexes you, you attempt to create a hierarchy within the Godhead. Then you attempt to support that claim with verses that don't support your claim.

At this point you have been addressed as being wrong by a large spectrum of persons here who generally view soteriology differently, yet all have disagreed with you. At what point will you acknowledge you just might be wrong?

 

[John of Japan]

#1. You denied Him being in you as your body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit for why there is no more filling.

Eph. 5:18--"And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;"

This command was given to Christians well after the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

For anyone truly interested in the non-Charismatic teaching of a great revivalist concerning this, see the last chapter of this new book that is coming out soon: John R. Rice: The Last Revivalist of the Twentieth Century | On to Victory Press

John R. Rice believed in the filling of the Holy Spirit for all of us, but was not a Charismatic. In fact, he opposed the Charismatic movement. He wrote a book against it, and another one specifically against tongues. However, he believed deeply that God will give power to serve Him in answer to prayer. He wrote:

"All great soul-winning evangelists believe in a definite enduement of power of the Holy Spirit. So did Charles H. Spurgeon, so did John Wesley, so did Charles G. Finney, so did D. L. Moody, so did R. A. Torrey, so did J. Wilbur Chapman. Terminology may differ but all these great soul winners mentioned with the half dozen leading evangelists in the world today, believe that Christians need and can have a definite enduement of power for soul winning"
(John R. Rice, The Evangelist, 193-194).

 

[Yeshua1]

That is the NIV and not the KJV as they are not saying the same thing.

Compare that with John 16:13 in the NIV and may God give you pause.

Note the grammatical error in Romans 8:27 in the NIV where he is separated from us that searches our hearts is separated from the Spirit in knowing the mind of. Therefore the conclusion of that verse cannot switch out the "he" with "the Spirit", now can it?

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. NIV

Now look at Romans 8:26-27 in the KJV

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

So check again, brother, but asking Him for wisdom to see it and why apostasy is abounding in the latter days for why faith is hard to find.

The Holy Spirit is the member of the truine God that we deal with hear, as He indwells us directly! Did He inspire the scriptures, or did Jesus? Is he the one that illuminates the scriptures to us, or is it Jesus?

 

[Yeshua1]

You are attempting to make Jesus and the Holy Spirit subordinate to the Father.

Either, you are not being truthful when you say you're trinitarian, or you simply cannot grasp how the Father, Son and Spirit are one being and also three distinct person's. Because that perplexes you, you attempt to create a hierarchy within the Godhead. Then you attempt to support that claim with verses that don't support your claim.

At this point you have been addressed as being wrong by a large spectrum of persons here who generally view soteriology differently, yet all have disagreed with you. At what point will you acknowledge you just might be wrong?

He still to me seems to be really saying either Oneness or Modualism!

 

[Yeshua1]

Eph. 5:18--"And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;"

This command was given to Christians well after the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

For anyone truly interested in the non-Charismatic teaching of a great revivalist concerning this, see the last chapter of this new book that is coming out soon: John R. Rice: The Last Revivalist of the Twentieth Century | On to Victory Press

John R. Rice believed in the filling of the Holy Spirit for all of us, but was not a Charismatic. In fact, he opposed the Charismatic movement. He wrote a book against it, and another one specifically against tongues. However, he believed deeply that God will give power to serve Him in answer to prayer. He wrote:

"All great soul-winning evangelists believe in a definite enduement of power of the Holy Spirit. So did Charles H. Spurgeon, so did John Wesley, so did Charles G. Finney, so did D. L. Moody, so did R. A. Torrey, so did J. Wilbur Chapman. Terminology may differ but all these great soul winners mentioned with the half dozen leading evangelists in the world today, believe that Christians need and can have a definite enduement of power for soul winning"
(John R. Rice, The Evangelist, 193-194).

Is asking and praying to the Holy Spirit to open hearts and minds, to save lost sinners when Gospel given sinning?

 

[John of Japan]

Is asking and praying to the Holy Spirit to open hearts and minds, to save lost sinners when Gospel given sinning?

Absolutely not.

 

[John of Japan]

I just prayed and asked the Lord to fill me with His Holy Spirit, since I am about to teach on the Olivet Discourse. God is so good to give us a Comforter/Helper/Advocate (all the same word in Greek, parakletos) for such times. "Thank you in advance, Holy Spirit, for helping me."

Had a wonderful time in that training union class. I had much freedom in the Holy Spirit, and believe Christ was glorified. If you prayed for me for the class, thank you!

Let me emphasize that my beliefs about the Holy Spirit have absolutely nothing to do with the Charismatic movement, contrary to Hark's charge. I do not believe in tongues, healing meetings, the "manifest sons of God" doctrine, non-Biblical revelation, "power evangelism," or any other of the Charismatic heresies. In fact, three times in my ministry of 33 years in Japan, Charismatics did great damage to the Lord's work, and I had to take measures against them.

Believing in the fullness of the Holy Spirit as needed to do God's work is not Charismatic. It is Biblical. First the Holy Spirit comes to indwell you at salvation. You may or may not be filled (completely controlled) by the Holy Spirit at that time, or it may come later. Either way, it is commanded for those who are already believers in Eph. 5:18. But to serve God with power, you need the fullness of the Spirit.

 

[John of Japan]

Times in the book of Acts when people were filled with the Spirit subsequent to salvation and the indwelling of the Spirit:

Ac 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

Ac 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

Ac 6:3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.

Ac 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Ac 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

Ac 11:24 For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord.

Ac 13:9 Then Saul, (who also [is called] Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,

Ac 13:52 And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost.

 

[rlvaughn]

Times in the book of Acts when people were filled with the Spirit subsequent to salvation and the indwelling of the Spirit:

Yes. The testimony of the filling of the Spirit in the early church in the book of Acts demonstrates that numerous accounts are recorded of disciples being filled with the Spirit, not associated with the speaking in tongues. The filling of the Spirit is consistently associated with that which Jesus declared would happen after the Holy Spirit came upon them – power to be witnesses. Speaking in tongues is mentioned in connection with filling of the Spirit only on one occasion – on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:4). Even on that occasion, preaching is central to the event, and some 3000 are converted. The simple and obvious conclusion is that the filling of the Spirit could and did occur without the experience of tongues.

 

[Yeshua1]

Had a wonderful time in that training union class. I had much freedom in the Holy Spirit, and believe Christ was glorified. If you prayed for me for the class, thank you!

Let me emphasize that my beliefs about the Holy Spirit have absolutely nothing to do with the Charismatic movement, contrary to Hark's charge. I do not believe in tongues, healing meetings, the "manifest sons of God" doctrine, non-Biblical revelation, "power evangelism," or any other of the Charismatic heresies. In fact, three times in my ministry of 33 years in Japan, Charismatics did great damage to the Lord's work, and I had to take measures against them.

Believing in the fullness of the Holy Spirit as needed to do God's work is not Charismatic. It is Biblical. First the Holy Spirit comes to indwell you at salvation. You may or may not be filled (completely controlled) by the Holy Spirit at that time, or it may come later. Either way, it is commanded for those who are already believers in Eph. 5:18. But to serve God with power, you need the fullness of the Spirit.

The Person and work of the Holy Spirit seems to be so neglected today, as we have the twin excesses ranging from Charismatic chaos views to pretty much nothing about Him views!

 

[Yeshua1]

Absolutely not.

I ask Him to give me the words to speak and boldness any time witnessing, especially to cultists at my door!