1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Can he lead us to Satan subjecting us to temptation? Why ask him not to if he cannot?
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Does The Lord Create Evil?
- Thread starter tyndale1946
- Start date
I think the correct way to view this would be to ask the Lord to lead us in our trials to do the right thing, by not falling to temptaion to sin!
Education.
We ask him to do his will too right?
Every act of evil is 100% act of immaturity. All the motivations and grounds for it is usually fear, always ignorance.
If a infant grabs your finger and tries to forcefully gnaw on it with his toothless mouth, THAT is a sin.
The distance in ignorance from that baby to us is nothing compared to the distance between us and God.
If you ever found someone with no notion at all of kindness. A good person might say they hit the jackpot.
A person who has been thirsty all their life has different appreciation of water.
Evil tends to have quite an Evil view of Evil. When good is learned it is sincerely appreciated.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
A baby gnawing on your finger is sinful? That is just silly.
Every act of evil is due to immaturity? Again, that is simply untrue.
Willful disobedience to God is evil and is not due to immaturity. It is due to a mindset hostile to God and His Word and His righteousness.
Every act of evil is due to immaturity? Again, that is simply untrue.
Willful disobedience to God is evil and is not due to immaturity. It is due to a mindset hostile to God and His Word and His righteousness.
Name anything dumber than being hostile to God, And you have a winner.
I agree
And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
I wonder why? It for certain wasn't to tempt him. Maybe he was tempting Satan, to tempt the man.
For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin.
Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Flesh, blood? Sold, redeemed? ----- for the soul of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that maketh atonement for the soul.
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Just a thought.
Me thinks God knew what God was doing before Adam was created.
Acts 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Being "dumb" denotes lack of ability to understand. People reject God on purpose. They often understand what God expects, and reject it.
Ah noooooooooooooooo!Scripture says he does or does it?... Some say they take the Bible literally, well how do you balance this scripture with a God of love?... Would a God of love create evil?... Comments... Brother Glen
Isaiah 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
45:8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.
Does the Lord create evil? Yes, according to Calvinism.
“The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how muchsoever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay unless in so far as he commands, that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11)
“The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how muchsoever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay unless in so far as he commands, that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11)
Nope, JC was just saying here that the Demon and satan alway want to do sinful acts, but whatever they getto do would have to be allowed by God first!
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. From Gen 1:2
Was evil already present?
Would creating a man and laying down an environment for him to live in, be the beginning of the means, by which the present evil could be dealt with?
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that - was good:
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1 John 1:5
and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
His disciples say unto him, Master, the Jews of late sought to stone thee; and goest thou thither again? Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world. But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 2 Cor 4:6
Let there be light: and there was light.
What was God about to do?
Was evil already present?
Would creating a man and laying down an environment for him to live in, be the beginning of the means, by which the present evil could be dealt with?
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that - was good:
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1 John 1:5
and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
His disciples say unto him, Master, the Jews of late sought to stone thee; and goest thou thither again? Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world. But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 2 Cor 4:6
Let there be light: and there was light.
What was God about to do?
Nope. Someone can take a hammer and smash their hand on purpose. Rejecting God is still a dumber.
Ignorance is what it is. You might have the ability to understand rocket science doesn't mean your a rocket scientist.
The worst sin you've done in your life. If you knew then what you know now........ You would do the sin over again?
Tell me yes and you got a winner.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
"Ignorance" is a lack of knowledge. Being "dumb" is a lack of ability to understand.
Do you believe God will not hold a person accountable for their sins if they are ignorant or dumb concerning God's view of the sin?
I believe he is merciful and quite a number of people will step up to the plate to claim responsibility for the short comings of others. However, Some here might view God not providing the capacity or knowledge is his way of "passing over" the reprobate to be a reprobate.
Every sin involves ignorance for motivation, It comes in many colors like fear and vanity.
I can study a "rotten" person. The more I understand them the less I begin to fault them, I see the abuse, the upbringing the situations and training of character.
I'm pretty sure you have your tough moments in life, And I would probably do a worst job in your shoes then you do.
A bit like the saying if not by the grace of God there go I. I got enough understanding of humility ,tho maybe I don't exercise is as I should, to know I am no better than anyone else, and if the whole universe were to condemn you I would have to step up and say I'm no better.
I strive to treasure the lowest soul and worst sinner everyone hates, because I have an actual appreciation of knowing what it like to love and being taught to love love-itself. There is a joyful appreciative discovery from being hateful and apathetic to being considerate and loving. Its deeply ingrained beyond any gratitude.
As evil I never had to exist, but God saw something more there.
God educates us and disciplines.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I simply don't understand what that means and how that answers my question. Do you believe God will not hold people accountable if they don't understand they are sinning?
If that is true, it would be better to never proclaim Christ to anyone, better to stay ignorant and live eternally than to be informed and stand condemned.
[/QUOTE]Every sin involves ignorance for motivation, It comes in many colors like fear and vanity.[/QUOTE]
It is simply untrue that "ignorance" is the motivation for all sin. Claiming "fear and vanity" is essentially the same as ignorance, is an attempt to redefine the meaning of words in order to support a claim that is clearly untrue.
[/QUOTE]I can study a "rotten" person. The more I understand them the less I begin to fault them, I see the abuse, the upbringing the situations and training of character.[/QUOTE]
God determines fault. I certainly cannot condemn anyone. I realize any "rotten" person, as you say, is a sinner trapped in sin, just as I once was. I don't make excuses for them, or their behavior.
[/QUOTE]I strive to treasure the lowest soul and worst sinner everyone hates, because I have an actual appreciation of knowing what it like to love and being taught to love love-itself. [/QUOTE]
If you really treasure the worst sinner, and I have no doubt that you do, let me encourage you to tell them the truth: They stand condemned before God. Ignorance will not be an excuse. They need to repent and embrace Jesus as their Savior and Lord of their life
[/QUOTE]God educates us and disciplines.[/QUOTE]
The focus of that education and discipline is the need for faith in Jesus and being transformed by indwelling Holy Spirit.
ALL of us are 'rotten" wehn compared to a holy God!
ALL of us deserve eternal Hell!
The wonder is that God chooses to save out ANY of us to be saved!
"ALL of us deserve eternal Hell!"
Should be easy enough to find a bible verse where God declares "ALL of us deserve eternal Hell!".
Not a verse that says "we are bad" and "bad goes to hell" , We can even scribble in "all are guaranteed to go to hell".
But find me the verse where GOD declares "ALL of us deserve eternal Hell!"
"The wonder is that God chooses to save out ANY of us to be saved!"
Well of course anyone who believes God is a monster would be shocked and surprised that he were half a monster rather then a complete one.
Torturing his son to vent out his anger, So of course its a VAST MIRACLE that God has any mercy whatsoever.
My view just the opposite, not to be confused with "universal salvation", I would NOT be surprised if God were the PERFECT HERO and saved everyone.
I'd love to have you folks bring up the charge against me, Well Lord next is we have real funny one, this one guy who believe you were such a great person, that you....and get this..... were so merciful and kind and powerful ....That you could pull off a complete victory of saving all souls, what a joke right?
Every sin involves ignorance for motivation, It comes in many colors like fear and vanity.[/QUOTE]
It is simply untrue that "ignorance" is the motivation for all sin. Claiming "fear and vanity" is essentially the same as ignorance, is an attempt to redefine the meaning of words in order to support a claim that is clearly untrue.
[/QUOTE]I can study a "rotten" person. The more I understand them the less I begin to fault them, I see the abuse, the upbringing the situations and training of character.[/QUOTE]
God determines fault. I certainly cannot condemn anyone. I realize any "rotten" person, as you say, is a sinner trapped in sin, just as I once was. I don't make excuses for them, or their behavior.
[/QUOTE]I strive to treasure the lowest soul and worst sinner everyone hates, because I have an actual appreciation of knowing what it like to love and being taught to love love-itself. [/QUOTE]
If you really treasure the worst sinner, and I have no doubt that you do, let me encourage you to tell them the truth: They stand condemned before God. Ignorance will not be an excuse. They need to repent and embrace Jesus as their Savior and Lord of their life
[/QUOTE]God educates us and disciplines.[/QUOTE]
The focus of that education and discipline is the need for faith in Jesus and being transformed by indwelling Holy Spirit.[/QUOTE]
I said he disciplines. Would you call it so if he didn't hold people accountable?
"Do you believe God will not hold people accountable if they don't understand they are sinning?"
Let me introduce you to Paul:
1 timothy 1
12I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service, 13even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief; 14and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus.
^ can you spot what motivated GOD to show mercy to Paul?
Its not because he had faith alone. Its not because he was doing great works. Our mission has always been the sinner.
1 timothy 1
5But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
Romans 3:23, God will allow no sin into heaven with Him!
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Context: He is not talking about his salvation. He is talking about his ministry. The "mercy" Paul is talking about is God's grace in strengthening Paul for Christian ministry (enabling grace, not salvific grace). God enabled Paul for this ministry, even though he was the "worst of sinners", because he acted ignorantly and in unbelief in his prior "ministry" of persecuting Chistians.
This is in comparison to Timothy, who is considering quiting his ministry. Timothy has no such excuse. He can't claim ignorance or unbelief.