Does the New Testament superscede the Old Testament

[michael-acts17:11]

Scripture is very clear that the Old Covenant no longer exists in any form or fashion.

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
(Heb 8:6-9)

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
(Heb 8:13)


Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God; (Heb 10:19-21)

 

[percho]

Lets look at it from this perspective. A will is made. At some point in time someone inherits something. We are called heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ. We are presently heirs not inheritors. Being we are joint with Christ, is he still an heir or has he inherited what we are joint with him of? By the way it was his blood that sealed the will.

From these statements, In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; (Who was this promise made to?) who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; (I would say he has inherited.)

The following was done to and by Jesus, the Word made flesh in order for those God calls could become heirs, Titus 3:5,6 by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit; (That was done by and to Jesus) Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; (That was done by God thru Christ to the called) (Which results in the called being) verse 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Heirs of what Jesus the Christ has already inherited)

The rich ruler asked about inheriting eternal life and Jesus equated that with entering/inheriting the kingdom of God, yet flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. That is why we must be born again. As Jesus was the firstborn from the dead by resurrection/regeneration and it was appointed unto man once to die, so also must we be resurrected from the dead unto life everlasting.

That is when we become new covenant beings in the image of his son that he, Jesus might be call first born of many brothers born as he was from the dead.

 

[michael-acts17:11]

percho, did I read you post correctly? You believe Jesus had to undergo regeneration?

 

[percho]

percho, did I read you post correctly? You believe Jesus had to undergo regeneration?

Not any more so than that he underwent generation. Do you want to say that he wasn't born of the virgin Mary. Do you want to say that he did not die? Do you want to say that he is still dead?


1) new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration

a) hence renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God, a radical change of mind for the better. The word often used to denote the restoration of a thing to its pristine state, its renovation, as a renewal or restoration of life after death

b) the renovation of the earth after the deluge

c) the renewal of the world to take place after its destruction by fire, as the Stoics taught

d) the signal and glorious change of all things (in heaven and earth) for the better, that restoration of the primal and perfect condition of things which existed before the fall of our first parents, which the Jews looked for in connection with the advent of the Messiah, and which Christians expected in connection with the visible return of Jesus from heaven.

e) other uses

1) of Cicero's restoration to rank and fortune on his recall from exile

2) of the restoration of the Jewish nation after exile

3) of the recovery of knowledge by recollection

 

[TCGreek]

The language of the NT itself is one of fulfillment, not supersessionism.

 

[Allan]

The language of the NT itself is one of fulfillment, not supersessionism.

Couldn't have said it better brother... I guess that is why you said it

 

[Sularis]

Yes

The New Testament does supersede the Old - HOWEVER it does not invalidate or devalue the Old

its important that the Old points and explains the New - and while the laws do not save they still have value and should be respected

 

[J.D.]

Grace did not replace the law as the way of salvation. Grace replaced the law in terms of administration. Nobody was saved by the law, neither was that the intention of the law. The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, Paul explained in the 3rd chapter of Galatians. The law contained lessons about Christ and salvation given to man through types and shadows. Now we are no longer children but are grown up and thus now have something better, the very image rather than the shadows.

People under the administration of the OT were saved the same way as those under the administration of the NT, that being by Jesus Christ. The difference is in the understanding. When Jesus died on Calvary, the vail in the temple was ripped in two. That vail had signified that the way into the holiest of all (picture of heaven) was not yet made manifest (Hebrews 9). When that vail was rent, God was saying, "now it is manifested how man is saved from his sins." You and I today are able to live with a greater understanding than the OT saints in that we are looking back on the cross and are thus better able to understand the OT prophecies and pictures of Christ.

Amen!

...........

 

[J.D.]

Thus far in this thread, I can walk behind RAdam and say "Amen" to his posts.

Amen!

............

 

[ituttut]

To all, and no one in particular

The way I understand supersede is to replace. Yet the New individual transportation is by car. There were the horse and buggy days, the horse, camel, etc. But Walk is still used. Will walk ever go away?

There is something New told us in this dispensation, so we know something is Old. We should not avoid the word mystery. If we do dismiss how can one know for sure whether they in the Kingdom that was at Hand, and will come, or in TheBody of Christ Kingdom, even today, and it will come first?

Such things as this can quickly close a thread.

 

[michael-acts17:11]

Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
(Heb 10:8-20)

 

[michael-acts17:11]

Not any more so than that he underwent generation. Do you want to say that he wasn't born of the virgin Mary. Do you want to say that he did not die? Do you want to say that he is still dead?


1) new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration

a) hence renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God, a radical change of mind for the better. The word often used to denote the restoration of a thing to its pristine state, its renovation, as a renewal or restoration of life after death

b) the renovation of the earth after the deluge

c) the renewal of the world to take place after its destruction by fire, as the Stoics taught

d) the signal and glorious change of all things (in heaven and earth) for the better, that restoration of the primal and perfect condition of things which existed before the fall of our first parents, which the Jews looked for in connection with the advent of the Messiah, and which Christians expected in connection with the visible return of Jesus from heaven.

e) other uses

1) of Cicero's restoration to rank and fortune on his recall from exile

2) of the restoration of the Jewish nation after exile

3) of the recovery of knowledge by recollection

The very idea that Jesus had to be regenerated is ludicrous. He is eternally sinlessly perfect. Regeneration by the Holy Spirit brings spiritual life where there was spiritual death. Christ took on flesh but did not commit any sin that would being spiritual death.

 

[percho]

The very idea that Jesus had to be regenerated is ludicrous. He is eternally sinlessly perfect. Regeneration by the Holy Spirit brings spiritual life where there was spiritual death. Christ took on flesh but did not commit any sin that would being spiritual death.

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Speaking of the first man Adam, who is the figure of him that was to come.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

When Jesus was raised from the dead was he resurrected as God, as a man
or as a new creature in whose image we can attain to and exactly when will we attain that image?



Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth (gives life)
For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

 

[michael-acts17:11]

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Speaking of the first man Adam, who is the figure of him that was to come.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

When Jesus was raised from the dead was he resurrected as God, as a man
or as a new creature in whose image we can attain to and exactly when will we attain that image?



Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth (gives life)
For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

Scriptural regeneration is not a physical birth or event; it is a spiritual birth. Jesus was God manifest in the flesh. His spirit was never dead. You are playing fast & loose with the term regeneration.

 

[percho]

Scriptural regeneration is not a physical birth or event; it is a spiritual birth. Jesus was God manifest in the flesh. His spirit was never dead. You are playing fast & loose with the term regeneration.

is a spiritual birth, an event?

Does the following have an answer?

When Jesus was raised from the dead was he resurrected as God, as a man
or as a new creature in whose image we can attain to and exactly when will we attain to that image?

Is it recorded anywhere other than the word of God that the creator of all became that which he had created and gave his very life (What does gave his life mean to you?) in order to redeem and save that which he had created?

Matt. 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. Soul. Beginning about 3PM one day his soul was in Hades for three days and three nights yet it wasn't left there. After three days and three nights in Hades, life entered that soul again and he came forth from the tomb, his flesh not having seen corruption as __________________. His soul was resurrected from the same Hades the rich man in Luke 16 found himself in when he lifted up his eyes. I wonder how long he had his eyes shut from the time of his death?

 

[michael-acts17:11]

is a spiritual birth, an event?

Does the following have an answer?

When Jesus was raised from the dead was he resurrected as God, as a man
or as a new creature in whose image we can attain to and exactly when will we attain to that image?

Is it recorded anywhere other than the word of God that the creator of all became that which he had created and gave his very life (What does gave his life mean to you?) in order to redeem and save that which he had created?

Matt. 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. Soul. Beginning about 3PM one day his soul was in Hades for three days and three nights yet it wasn't left there. After three days and three nights in Hades, life entered that soul again and he came forth from the tomb, his flesh not having seen corruption as __________________. His soul was resurrected from the same Hades the rich man in Luke 16 found himself in when he lifted up his eyes. I wonder how long he had his eyes shut from the time of his death?

Our souls are created in a spiritually dead state at conception. Jesus' spirit existed in union with the Father for all eternity. It was only His earthly body that died & was reborn; not His spirit. His deity never changed.

 

[percho]

Our souls are created in a spiritually dead state at conception. Jesus' spirit existed in union with the Father for all eternity. It was only His earthly body that died & was reborn; not His spirit. His deity never changed.

Does the following have an answer?

When Jesus was raised from the dead was he resurrected as God, as a man
or as a new creature in whose image we can attain to and exactly when will we attain to that image?

 

[michael-acts17:11]

Does the following have an answer?

When Jesus was raised from the dead was he resurrected as God, as a man
or as a new creature in whose image we can attain to and exactly when will we attain to that image?

His physical body was resurrected. His deity never changed; God never changes. He is the same yesterday, today, & forever. Jesus' body was a new creation; not His essence.


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
(Joh 1:1-3)

 

[JesusFan]

Does the following have an answer?

When Jesus was raised from the dead was he resurrected as God, as a man
or as a new creature in whose image we can attain to and exactly when will we attain to that image?

jesus was physically resurrected in a glorified bodily form...

he was/is God-man, fully God and Fully man...

his body is the pattern that ours will be based upon....

 

[percho]

His physical body was resurrected. His deity never changed; God never changes. He is the same yesterday, today, & forever. Jesus' body was a new creation; not His essence.


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
(Joh 1:1-3)

jesus was physically resurrected in a glorified bodily form...

he was/is God-man, fully God and Fully man...

his body is the pattern that ours will be based upon....

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood.
Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. In what manner was Adam a figure of him to come?
Jesus was without sin yet he died the same death as Adam and those to whom sin was not imputed, Adam being his figure, that is a living soul.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Who, being in the form of God, thought [it] not robbery to be equal to God,
but did empty himself, What do each of you think he emptied himself of?
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us. The form of a servant (Slave to God) having taken, in the likeness of men having been made, and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross,

I will list a few things I believe he emptied himself of. And why.
For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure [unto him]. To the Word made flesh this was given from his conception of the Holy Spirit in the virgin Mary until the moment he commended his spirit unto the hands of the Father. It was inclusive in being the only begotten of the Father. As the Word he was Spirit. Notice the promises were made to Abraham and his one seed the Christ. Why would promises have to be made to the Christ unless he had emptied himself of something. for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. Why? He was God. Why didn't he just give them the Holy Spirit then?
Because he did not have it to give them. Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. He had to die. He had to be raised from the dead by the Father. He had to receive from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit. Then it could be sent to us.
Glory he had as the Word. As the Word made flesh he said this, "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."
The Word had and was eternal life. The Word made flesh is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell. In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; Before Adam was created these were stated. Who was this promise of the hope of eternal life made to and does it have anything to do with the substance of things hoped for?
For, as the Father doth raise the dead, and doth make alive. for, as the Father hath life in himself, so He gave also to the Son to have life in himself,
and God the Father, who raised him from the dead; ).
There is a chronology to the water baptism of Jesus that pictures his true baptism and what followed. He went down into the water and was suffered (death) He came up straightway out of the water (given new life) the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: (he received the promise of the Holy Spirit) And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. (Thou art my Son, this day (the day of his resurrection) have I begotten thee.) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, (If he hasn't been given life) your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins. (You have not been washed from your sins in his blood) If there is no regeneration then there is no washing. Is this true or not?

If the scriptures I have used were not used in the manner of truth to them then please quote them in the manner of truth as you see them.