Does the New Testament superscede the Old Testament

[ituttut]

Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
(Heb 10:8-20)

I believe you may be agreeing with me, in part. But walk is still around. Paul of the Tribe of Benjamin so loves His people he wrote them a Book. If we really shine the light on your post, does it not say the same thing as Peter does in Acts 15:11? "But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they".

Paul says it, and Peter says it. Peter advises his people will be wise for them to believe what Paul tells them Peter (3:13-16). Those that follow the religion of Israel will be saved just like the Gentile, and not the other way around.

 

[freeatlast]

I appreciate your post and understand what you are saying. I had thought about this. But, it, in my thinking, this does not address the central issue I raised. Christ fulfilled the law ... that is true. However we say we are now under grace not the law. So, if grace replaced the law as a way to salvation what other areas of the OT are superseded or replaced?

Also, philosophically, how can we have a new covenant and yet still be under parts of the old covenant if parts of the old covenant were not included in the new?

Here in is the problem in today's church with much miss-understanding. Grace did not replace the law as a way to salvation as the law could never save. No one was ever saved by the aw. There was never a provision given in the law for that. The law came with blessings or cursing's, but that is all. The teaching that we are not under the law only means that the law has no authority over us but it does not mean we are free to not obey the moral law. By the way all has not been fulfilled. There is yet things to come.

 

[percho]

Here in is the problem in today's church with much miss-understanding. Grace did not replace the law as a way to salvation as the law could never save. No one was ever saved by the aw. There was never a provision given in the law for that. The law came with blessings or cursing's, but that is all. The teaching that we are not under the law only means that the law has no authority over us but it does not mean we are free to not obey the moral law. By the way all has not been fulfilled. There is yet things to come.

I agree with you. A lot of things.

Heb 8:8,10 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of
Judah: For this the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; 10:16 This the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Have those days come and gone?

Is the new covenant relative to? And so all Israel shall be saved:

 

[ituttut]

I agree with you freeatlast . A lot of things.

Heb 8:8,10 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of
Judah: For this the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; 10:16 This the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Have those days come and gone?

Is the new covenant relative to? And so all Israel shall be saved:

Those days have not yet arrived. See mine above, and scripture quoted below.

Today, Israel is still blinded. Some few today come as the Gentile, i.e. through faith of Jesus Christ whom they have accepted, apart from the Law and the ordinances of Israel. We, and they of the Body of Christ believe the Everlasting Gospel.

Israel, her proselytes, and all others not in the Body of Christ, the people of the earth, await the great tribulation.

Really don't like to post whole chapters, but feel it is appropriate here.

Isaiah 24, "1. Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
2. And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.
3. The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the Lord hath spoken this word.
4. The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.
5. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
6. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
7. The new wine mourneth, the vine languisheth, all the merryhearted do sigh.
8. The mirth of tabrets ceaseth, the noise of them that rejoice endeth, the joy of the harp ceaseth.
9. They shall not drink wine with a song; strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it.
10. The city of confusion is broken down: every house is shut up, that no man may come in.
11. There is a crying for wine in the streets; all joy is darkened, the mirth of the land is gone.
12. In the city is left desolation, and the gate is smitten with destruction.
13. When thus it shall be in the midst of the land among the people, there shall be as the shaking of an olive tree, and as the gleaning grapes when the vintage is done.
14. They shall lift up their voice, they shall sing for the majesty of the Lord, they shall cry aloud from the sea.
15. Wherefore glorify ye the Lord in the fires, even the name of the Lord God of Israel in the isles of the sea.
16. From the uttermost part of the earth have we heard songs, even glory to the righteous. But I said, My leanness, my leanness, woe unto me! the treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously; yea, the treacherous dealers have dealt very treacherously.
17. Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.
18. And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.
19. The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20. The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
21. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22. And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23. Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously."

 

[glfredrick]

I appreciate your post and understand what you are saying. I had thought about this. But, it, in my thinking, this does not address the central issue I raised. Christ fulfilled the law ... that is true. However we say we are now under grace not the law. So, if grace replaced the law as a way to salvation what other areas of the OT are superseded or replaced?

Also, philosophically, how can we have a new covenant and yet still be under parts of the old covenant if parts of the old covenant were not included in the new?

Yours is an age-old heresy that crops up from time to time -- especially when people are not familiar with the history behind such thought. Read "Against Marcion" for a good introduction.

Indeed, Christ did fulfill the Law, and our righteousness counts on His imputed righteousness to us. That in no way suggests that the OT was "superseded." That would be a very anthropocentric way of looking at the whole issue. As was said above, "fulfilled" and a "further revelation" would be accurate, "superseded" is not.

 

[JesusFan]

Yours is an age-old heresy that crops up from time to time -- especially when people are not familiar with the history behind such thought. Read "Against Marcion" for a good introduction.

Indeed, Christ did fulfill the Law, and our righteousness counts on His imputed righteousness to us. That in no way suggests that the OT was "superseded." That would be a very anthropocentric way of looking at the whole issue. As was said above, "fulfilled" and a "further revelation" would be accurate, "superseded" is not.

But isn't the Christian be set free from both the penalty and curse of the Law of God?
That God now would have us live out our lives in the power of the Holy Spirit he has placed within all believers in Jesus?
That He now requires us to walk in the Spirit, and that WILL fufill, will be doing in his power and strenght the good works anyways?
That IF we allow Him to have His way in us, being Sirit filled, no need for external law anymore, as it lead us to Chrsit, and God Himself now lives in and through us in New Covenant?

 

[glfredrick]

But isn't the Christian be set free from both the penalty and curse of the Law of God?
That God now would have us live out our lives in the power of the Holy Spirit he has placed within all believers in Jesus?
That He now requires us to walk in the Spirit, and that WILL fufill, will be doing in his power and strenght the good works anyways?
That IF we allow Him to have His way in us, being Sirit filled, no need for external law anymore, as it lead us to Chrsit, and God Himself now lives in and through us in New Covenant?

We are not so easily "set free" of the Law. The Law must still be kept perfectly, in absolute completion in order that we might be saved. As none of us can begin to keep the Law completely and perfectly, we are, in fact, doomed! It is there, however, that Christ becomes our propitiation. HE keeps the Law perfectly and completely, both actively and passively, so as to utterly satisfy God's Law as a free man. This righteousness then is imputed to the believer (justification) so as to take from the believer our inability to keep the Law (sin) and replace that with Christ's perfect righteousness.

It should be noted that any human attempt to keep the Law in order to secure salvation, with or apart from Christ will fail. We simply cannot. Additionally, we cannot simply "ask Christ" or use some other very human motivation to skirt the issue of the Law. The Law is neither negated on our behalf nor can we partially fulfill it by good works. That is God's grand design, and in large measure the reason we call the gospel "good news!"

 

[JesusFan]

We are not so easily "set free" of the Law. The Law must still be kept perfectly, in absolute completion in order that we might be saved. As none of us can begin to keep the Law completely and perfectly, we are, in fact, doomed! It is there, however, that Christ becomes our propitiation. HE keeps the Law perfectly and completely, both actively and passively, so as to utterly satisfy God's Law as a free man. This righteousness then is imputed to the believer (justification) so as to take from the believer our inability to keep the Law (sin) and replace that with Christ's perfect righteousness.

It should be noted that any human attempt to keep the Law in order to secure salvation, with or apart from Christ will fail. We simply cannot. Additionally, we cannot simply "ask Christ" or use some other very human motivation to skirt the issue of the Law. The Law is neither negated on our behalf nor can we partially fulfill it by good works. That is God's grand design, and in large measure the reason we call the gospel "good news!"

The FULL requirements that the law placed against us before Holy God though IS fully paid for/atoned through death of Chrsit on the Cross...

We died in/with Christ, and rose in Him. law has no obligation on us in strict legal sense any more...

We are to still strive to do the Will of God daily, and that will be in walking in his ways, doing the "right things" but Chrsit and His Holy Spirit are Ones enabling us to live for God, and we will obey the ;aw "so long" as we abind in Them and stay on Will of God!

NOT saying free to do our own thing, and sin, BUT that what God asks us today to do is submit daily to the Holy Spirt, and His fruth WILLby its very nature meet the law demands!

We are to in in Grace of God and do good works, NOT to try/strive to keep the :aw!