As quoted previously, you will need to take that up with the Wokesters.
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Does what is actually true really matter to you?
- Thread starter 37818
- Start date
Out of curiosity Dave, just what is your perception of ‘Calvinism’ anyway… of course, you don’t have to answer if you don’t want. Or you can take it private.
Be well
37818
Well-Known Member
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
“Does what is actually true really matter to you?”
Yes, but there is much bound up in the concept.
It isn’t just our interpretation that is in play, but all that went before to bring us to whatever point we have reached.
“Let God be true, and every man a liar.” —Apostle Paul
"A man's got to know his limitations." —Harry Callahan
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
I am aware of the range of beliefs in Calvinism. I don't like to use the term and wish we didn't. If I was to put myself into a category I would say I'm a four point Calvinist. I'm OK with limited atonement working backwards, logically, but I do not think that anyone should worry that Christ did not die for them. If you end up not being saved it's because of unbelief and a continuance in a life of sin - not because you started out shut off from any hope of redemption.
There were some 5 point Calvinists who would say "Christ has died" to anyone with the idea of trying to preserve a belief in the "L" limited atonement and still have a genuine offer of salvation. While I like that I have no problem saying "Christ died for you" to anyone and I think that the "offer" of salvation is real to everyone who hears it. I think a direct action of the Holy Spirit must occur individually for someone to be saved. Some say we all have enough light to respond to the gospel. That's possibly true but the Bible says we all tend to not do that. So you have to have the Holy Spirit working in your life or you won't be saved. That can be through circumstances, hearing the word, and conviction but I think there also has to be an actual creative act that occurs - you are quickened, or born again, or regenerated either before or almost the same time you believe. I don't think the timing matters if you admit that we don't come to faith on our own.
I believe that grace is irresistible in the sense that you simply would not have become a Christian without a drawing power that exceeds your own corrupt, natural will. That does not mean that it isn't possible to resist or turn away and have the Spirit stop his influence so warnings are appropriate. You cannot decide on your own that you will be saved but you may be able to mess things up. I think it is proper to warn people to repent and believe. God is sovereign in their salvation but also ordained the means. And, God promises directly to save everyone who repents and believes so this overrides all speculative theology.
I believe that all those saved will persevere. But they actually do persevere in the faith. A saved person cannot not do anything he wants and be saved anyway, even in spite of apostacy. This is where MacArthur shines among modern preachers and I agree with him in this. So did the Puritans.
I know most good Calvinists will say you can't logically be a 4 pointer. Maybe they are right but there are a lot out there. And also, I believe that faith, by definition, cannot be a work. The Bible always contrasts faith with works. The sovereignty in salvation and the application of it in an individual is operating at the level of a persons will. Therefore, it is perfectly natural for a person to think that faith and a desire to repent just occurred to them or that they "decided" to come to Christ. I believe no one should be rebuked then for saying I made a decision or I came to Christ or to faith in Christ. The correct Calvinist response should be "amen".
37818
Well-Known Member
Truth is absolute. There is the law of noncontradiction. How we know comes before what we know. We all have presuppositions do to our experience and our understanding do to our own language. Most of what we think know comes from others. Then our logical deductions. God is the reason for truth.“Does what is actually true really matter to you?”
Yes, but there is much bound up in the concept.
It isn’t just our interpretation that is in play, but all that went before to bring us to whatever point we have reached.
“Let God be true, and every man a liar.” —Apostle Paul
"A man's got to know his limitations." —Harry Callahan
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
Yes, you and I have come to realize many of the same things. But then we very likely have very similar starting points and exposures.
We don’t just have presuppositions developed over our lifetimes, but perceptions trained over our lifetimes, which seems to agree with your post.
With the right training and development, one can come to believe just about anything. It doesn’t mean that any of it is true, and almost certainly not all of it is true.
I certainly believe there is objective, absolute truth and that God is both true and truth. But that doesn’t mean I believe I perceive truth fully objectively. Since no one else seems to, I’m rather confident I don’t either.
Well then, they will continually attempt to change truth… and as we both will concede, what is not truth is rank propaganda (aimed at the weak minded).
sdcoyote
Member
EWF - I agree with you. Unless one engages with "the woke" (I really do not like that term - they are, for the most part, just lost souls in the need of Jesus) they will continue down a path to toward destruction. Just as Paul conversed with even the devout followers of pagan gods in Greece and Rome, we too must stand on the TRUTH and present it to a lost world.
37818
Well-Known Member
The term "woke" is not precise. Each error needs to be dealt with according to each error.
Woke, nutjob, delusional, queer, liberal blah blah blah are all indications of a malaise that could be used to delineate the “woke” culture. Yes, the terminology is difficult to pinpoint but it does serve as a beginning point to address bizarre attitudes being facilitated today. For example, the public schools are beginning to mandate sexual issues that are best left to parents. Consequently both my wife & I would not want my grandchildren to go through the PS system for their education. But what about parents who don’t have the incomes to use private systems… will they be made slaves to “Woke Doctrine”? Stuff like that.
sdcoyote
Member
We adopted 3 children in our (52) old age. After almost 10 years of empty nest. They were 7-4-and just a baby at the time. We enrolled them in school as the state mandated etc., but pulled the older ones out after 2 years. The "baby" (he is now 13) never entered. I can honestly state it was the best decision we ever made. Our oldest girl coudn't even read when entering the 3rd grade. The middle boy was constantly in trouble.We earlier had three biological children who we did not homeschool, but times were different then.
Anyway, the pldest girl is now a nurse at a senior home and the middle boy starts college in the fall. The youngest - at 13 - was clocked throwing a baseball 73 mph just last week. He plays on a traveling squad not linked to any school and will play on a home school team next year for high school age kids. God blessed us. Praise be to him for guiding us through that most difficult time and decision. I cannot tell you how good God has been to our family.
Anyway, the pldest girl is now a nurse at a senior home and the middle boy starts college in the fall. The youngest - at 13 - was clocked throwing a baseball 73 mph just last week. He plays on a traveling squad not linked to any school and will play on a home school team next year for high school age kids. God blessed us. Praise be to him for guiding us through that most difficult time and decision. I cannot tell you how good God has been to our family.
37818
Well-Known Member
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
It is all about redefining words to fit what you want to believe. I’ll never forget the Secretary of Trans…, Pete Buttegig lecturing Christians about how God loves his g:y marriage and if anyone didn’t like it their problem was with God and not with him and his husband.
That is one reason why, as Christians, we acknowledge the Bible as the standard of truth by which all else is compared.
When Christians start redefining the words of scripture to fit their biases, they are opening the door to any and all who want to redefine the truths of scripture to fit their desired lifestyles.
peace to you
Here is an example that New Jersey residents are now subjected to…besides high taxes. On second thought…FORGETABOUT IT!
Used to be I could rely on certain people to take care of tings for me…not no more doe. I gotta go to council meetings, planning meetings etc. Its ridiculous and apathy is at an all time high.
Honestly most of it is, ‘Mental Illness Theater.’
37818
Well-Known Member
Extra Biblical terminology. Demonism?Honestly most of it is, ‘Mental Illness Theater.’
What are you talking about? Are you implying that mental illness is Demonic… that’s very cheeky if you are!
That’s purposeful reaction to an action… ie a form of truth correction. However these actions are being broadcast as normal, not abnormal and cry’s out for not only tolerance but acceptance and legitimacy. And we all know that tolerance is a form of weakness born of fear…. You tolerate those you are afraid of.