doesn't the fall of Adam show that free will by itself cannot provide salvation?

[steaver]

Jacob did know he was wrestling with God.

Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Jacob knew he was wrestling God, he said he had seen God "face to face" and yet his life was preserved. He seems to be slightly surprised that he survived this event.

And Jacob absolutely demanded that God bless him before he would let go.

This is not a difficult passage, a child could easily follow this story. I read this story as a child and had no trouble understanding it.

And if I insulted you I am sorry. You do not like the idea that Jacob prevailed over God in this wrestling match, but that is exactly what this passage says. I don't know what to tell you, take it up with God, I didn't write the scriptures.

I tried.........blessings!

 

[Iconoclast]

steaver

I will assume that your goal is to be faithful to the correct interpretations and applications of this precious Word God has entrusted to us His children, that we may study it and rightly divide it, that we will not be found guilty of sticking with a misapplication or misinterpretation and teaching error to others.

not sure about this one

Personally, my goal is to rightly divide and not to be right. In my past, have been guilty of misusing a passage of scripture just because seemed to sound like it proved a point I was trying to make. Over the years I have learned to abandon those passages that I once misapplied so I would be faithful to God and His message, being very careful not to take anything out of context just to make my pov look better.

:wavey: good thought

I don't know if you teach any bible studies or Sunday School classes, but I believe you are here to teach others what you believe the scriptures teach, correct?

maybe not....

QUOTE]
I would hope that you are also here to test your own points of view and carefully consider what others point out as well. And if after some careful consideration and study you find that a passage you have been using really shouldn't be used for a go to on a subject then you would faithfully abandon that particular passage as to honor God and His Word, not that you must abandon your whole pov, but make sure you are only using those passages which actually do speak to the subject being discussed. That's just being fair and honest to God first and foremost, I think you would agree with me that we should take seriously the way we apply passages in God's Word. [/QUOTE]

This does not happen .....there is always reason to just plow ahead and repeat wrong ideas on rom7...eccl7.....over and over...even when given solid explanations....

? Personally, I find it insulting. I don't think we need to make comments such as these in our debates, we all should just make our arguments from scripture and be careful not to do any tweeking or make the passages say anything more than what is written.

:thumbs:...yes
you did try.....

 

[Yeshua1]

Jacob did know he was wrestling with God.

Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Jacob knew he was wrestling God, he said he had seen God "face to face" and yet his life was preserved. He seems to be slightly surprised that he survived this event.

And Jacob absolutely demanded that God bless him before he would let go.

This is not a difficult passage, a child could easily follow this story. I read this story as a child and had no trouble understanding it.

And if I insulted you I am sorry. You do not like the idea that Jacob prevailed over God in this wrestling match, but that is exactly what this passage says. I don't know what to tell you, take it up with God, I didn't write the scriptures.

Do yuo still hold that ALL sinners were written down by God into lamb Book of Life, and that we remove ourselves by rejecting jesus, so those who never heard are all saved, so why even do missions, and chance them rejecting him?

 

[Winman]

Do yuo still hold that ALL sinners were written down by God into lamb Book of Life, and that we remove ourselves by rejecting jesus, so those who never heard are all saved, so why even do missions, and chance them rejecting him?

Who did God say he would blot out of his book?

Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Does it say whosoever has rejected Jesus shall be blotted out? Or does it say whosoever has sinned against me (God) shall be blotted out?

If you spent a little time reading the Bible you wouldn't have to ask so many questions.

 

[Yeshua1]

Who did God say he would blot out of his book?

Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Does it say whosoever has rejected Jesus shall be blotted out? Or does it say whosoever has sinned against me (God) shall be blotted out?

If you spent a little time reading the Bible you wouldn't have to ask so many questions.

Jesus stated that he will never cast out ANY who come unto him, so cannot mean what you state, as he is against that one!

And the father lied to Moses, by your reasoning, for Favid was to die, yet God spared his life!

 

[Winman]

Jesus stated that he will never cast out ANY who come unto him, so cannot mean what you state, as he is against that one!

Well of course someone who trusts Christ is not blotted out, their sins are forgiven.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

The reason these person's raiment is white is because their sins have been washed away in the blood of Christ. Their names will not be blotted out, which implies unbelievers will be blotted out, which implies their names were originally in the book of life.

I realize this refutes Calvinism, what can I say? Most of the Bible refutes Calvinism.

And the father lied to Moses, by your reasoning, for Favid was to die, yet God spared his life!

I have no idea what you are talking about here, and I seriously doubt you do either.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

this thread is closed.