Dominion vs determinism

[KenH]

Here is Psalm 110:3 in NASB 95

Literally in the greek according to the note “will be freewill offerings”.

You are using a free-will offering to argue calvinism ? Really? Only a Calvinist could make free will be calvinism lol! Calvinists are better at language word games than liberal progressives!

Of course, God's elect are willing. The verse states how they are made willing - by God's power, and not their own. Without God's power, God's elect would not be willing.

 

[Psalty]

But He chose them based upon nothing within them. The others nation He left without a covenant, without priests and prophets to intercede for them, not sacrificial system. So, you are correct; that was a strike, that I hammered over 500 feet for a home run.

And were the whole nation of Israel saved or not?

You use this and think it is a slam dunk when what you show is only a remnant of His elect were saved, not all of His chosen people.

You absolutely fail to understand election.

 

[Psalty]

Of course, God's elect are willing. The verse states how they are made willing - by God's power, and not their own. Without God's power, God's elect would not be willing.

It says nothing of the sort. Did you even read the verse? Even in your old-school king James it doesnt say God made them be willing.

 

[KenH]

Why not keep reading to Pauls conclusion?

Because I am not going to quote the entire Bible from Genesis 1:1 all the way to Revelation 22.21 for each and every Biblical teaching that I point out.

Concerning Romans 9:30-32, when God brings His elect under the hearing of the gospel of Christ, the Holy Spirit regenerates them and grants them the gift of faith in Christ's finished work and the gift of repentance of dead works in which they trusted before regeneration(any of the myriad of conditions that various religious organizations falsely tell people that they have to fulfill so that they will "let" God "save" them).

As Paul points out, the Jews thought that by trying to perform works of the law that they could be made righteous by their own efforts, and they missed the righteousness of God.

Romans 10:2-4
For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

 

[KenH]

It says nothing of the sort. Did you even read the verse. Even in your old-school king James it doesnt say God made them be willing.

Psalm 110:3
Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power,
In the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: Thou hast the dew of thy youth.

Who?

"Thy people".

Willing when?

"in the day".

In the day of what?

"of Thy power".

 

[Psalty]

Keep going, Paul is concluding His point. Even if objects of wrath they can be grafted in again.

But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.— Romans 11:17-23

 

[Psalty]

Psalm 110:3
Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power,
In the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: Thou hast the dew of thy youth.

Who?

"Thy people".

Willing when?

"in the day".

In the day of what?

"of Thy power".

So in context this is saying that His people will give free will offerings when He rules with power… uh yeah, this is obvious.

This says nothing about Him mystically converting their will to do it, thats all you adding mans tradition to the text. Why would they need Him to manipulate their will to give a freewill offering?

Edit: How ((Ken)) reads Psalm 110:3
Psalm 110:3
Thy people shall be ((made)) willing ((by You)) in the day of thy power,
In the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: Thou hast the dew of thy youth.

 

[SovereignGrace]

And were the whole nation of Israel saved or not?

You use this and think it is a slam dunk when what you show is only a remnant of His elect were saved, not all of His chosen people.

You absolutely fail to understand election.

Again, this shows that when God elects ppl, He does not do it based upon whom they are and what they do, or will do later down the road. That is election. It is you who absolutely fails to understand election.

 

[Psalty]

Again, this shows that when God elects ppl, He does not do it based upon whom they are and what they do, or will do later down the road. That is election. It is you who absolutely fails to understand election.

You said Israel was Elect.
You as a calvinist believes that elect people were chosen to be saved before the foundation of the world.

Was all of israel saved or not? They were all elect… Please answer the question.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You said Israel was Elect.
You as a calvinist believes that elect people were chosen to be saved before the foundation of the world.

Was all of israel saved or not? They were all elect… Please answer the question.

No, not all were saved. God used them to fulfill His plan. Not all of Israel is Israel.

 

[Psalty]

No, not all were saved. God used them to fulfill His plan. Not all of Israel is Israel.

So even though God called Israel His elect, not all of them were saved.
Do you agree with this statement?

 

[Silverhair]

Those who believe are God's elect, chosen by Him before the world began.

You are just spouting calvinism not the bible truth.

Those who trust and believe and are sealed are God's elect, chosen by Him before the world began.

And again you just push the same calvinist error.

The world God loved and gave His Son for, and who believe in Him, and have eternal life, is the world of both Jews and Gentiles, God's elect, chosen by Him before the world began.

For someone that says they preach the word of God you do not understand the word of God

The world that is saved through Him is the world of both Jews and Gentiles, God's elect, chosen by Him before the world began,

Christ came so that the whole world could be saved but only those that freely trust in Him will be saved.

You keep pushing a false narrative. Your false views call the character of God into question.

 

[Silverhair]

I disagree with your characterization, but just let me say that I would much rather be God's puppet and spend eternity with Him, than to have to rely on a free will (which is fallen and not really free, at all) and spend eternity in Hell.

You have to hope that the actions He has you perform are actually for your salvation and not just to glorify Himself when He casts you into hell. That's problem you face SG, you can never know if you are saved or not. You can think you are saved but it could all be just an illusion.

Now for me I can know I am saved as I used my God given free will to place my trust in the risen Christ Jesus. The bible is clear about why God saves or do you not believe what it says?

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 10:13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

 

[Silverhair]

For those who think that Christ died for every single human being, but in doing so, He did not actually save every single human being for whom He died, I plead with you to consider the horrible implication that comes with your belief in that idea - you are saying that God is just like fallen mankind, that He fails to accomplish something that He purposes to do.

Christ died to actually save those for whom He died; Christ did not die to merely make every human being salvable.

The following is an excerpt from an article written by Curtis A. Pugh, entitled, "Is God a Failure? The Bible Reveals God is Not a Failure":

' Without considering the consequences of such a system of belief, most professing Christians today have adopted a theology which makes God a failure! Historically, this system was first taught by Thomas Aquinas among the Catholics and is known as Thomism. Later, among some Protestants these ideas were popularized by James Arminius and others. Today they are known by the term Arminianism (not to be confused with Armenia). This free will system of doctrine is the tie that binds Catholicism and Protestantism together -- and in our day a host of nominal Baptists who also have fallen prey to it.

By carelessness in Bible study on the part of many -- and evident wresting of the Scriptures on the part of some -- many professing Christians now claim to worship a god who is a failure! Often these people slander the Bible by saying it contains two contradictory lines of teaching which cannot be reconciled. They may claim to believe in a sovereign God, but at the same time think mankind has a "free will" by which he can resist God and hinder His working. Thus, they take the Thomist/Arminian view and promote free-willism. (Nowhere does the Bible teach that man's will is free from his depraved nature!)

This free will system of doctrine sets forth a god who is a wimp. He loves everybody (in spite of clear Bible teaching that God has set His love only on His elect people). The god of this theological system is trying to save everybody, but cannot because they will not let him. Therefore this god is a failure!

Most often, adherents to this Catholic system of theology deny vehemently that they teach that their god is a failure. However, occasionally one of their preachers will say in words or substance, "God has done everything He can do to save you. The rest is up to you". Or perhaps their preaching takes the slant that you must "let God" do this or that in your life. If you do not "let God" He cannot accomplish His purpose in your life, according to the god-is-a-failure theory.

As further proof, we quote one prominent "Baptist" (BBF) preacher of some years ago as representative of this Thomist/Arminian view. He wrote, ". . . hell is a ghastly monument to the failure of the Triune God to save the multitudes who are there . . . sinners go to hell because God Almighty couldn't save them! He did all He could. He failed." [Noel Smith, "Universal Atonement," Defender Magazine, Springfield, MO., U.S.A., December, 1956]. '

- rest of article at Is God a Failure?

Ken how can you miss so much of what God has said?

Christ accomplished just what He came to do. He went to the cross to pay the sin debt of humanity 1Jn 2:2 ...He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

God sent His son so that man could be saved.

Joh 3:17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

But only those that freely trust in Him will be saved

Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

It is odd that these basic biblical truths have to be pointed out to you Ken. But it seems you have closed your mind to the biblical truths and hold to the false teachings of calvinism.

 

[Psalty]

You have to hope that the actions He has you perform are actually for your salvation and not just to glorify Himself when He casts you into hell. That's problem you face SG, you can never know if you are saved or not. You can think you are saved but it could all be just an illusion.

Now for me I can know I am saved as I used my God given free will to place my trust in the risen Christ Jesus. The bible is clear about why God saves or do you not believe what it says?

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 10:13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

Its sad that the Calvinist god is limited in his grace to a select few. Its such a weak god of limited grace.

On the other-hand, the God of the bible is maximally gracious and offers grace to EVERYONE! His grace is unlimited

 

[SovereignGrace]

So even though God called Israel His elect, not all of them were saved.
Do you agree with this statement?

Absolutely, but that does not mean every single one of them were elect. Again, not all of Israel is Israel.

 

[Psalty]

Absolutely, but that does not mean every single one of them were elect. Again, not all of Israel is Israel.

So when God said that Israel is elect, He doesnt necessarily mean everyone.

So when God said that Gentiles are elect, He doesnt necessarily mean everyone.

Congratulations, you just destroyed the calvinist definition of election and cannot hold to Eternal Security.

 

[SovereignGrace]

So when God said that Israel is elect, He doesnt necessarily mean everyone.

So when God said that Gentiles are elect, He doesnt necessarily mean everyone.

Congratulations, you just destroyed the calvinist definition of election and cannot hold to Eternal Security.

You aren't as slick as you think you are my friend. When I get time, I will go through this to prove we are right in regards to election and predestination.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Its sad that the Calvinist god is limited in his grace to a select few. Its such a weak god of limited grace.

On the other-hand, the God of the bible is maximally gracious and offers grace to EVERYONE! His grace is unlimited

Its sad that many who Christ died for, who paid their sin debt in full, died eternally lost, even when their sins have been paid for. Its sad that many thwart God's will and die eternally lost, who God tried to save, but they thwarted His will, and overrode it. So much for an omnipotent God. Man is stronger than Him and can say, "God tried to save me, but I didn't let Him. My will overpowered His will. Nanananananana boo boo!"

 

[Martin Marprelate]

So when God said that Israel is elect, He doesnt necessarily mean everyone.

So when God said that Gentiles are elect, He doesnt necessarily mean everyone.

Congratulations, you just destroyed the calvinist definition of election and cannot hold to Eternal Security.

??? Newsflash: the Gentiles aren't all elect. Only those for whom Christ died are elect. The Father has chosen a vast crowd (Rev. 7:9) for salvation, and given them to the Son to redeem; and He will not lose even one of them (John 6:40 etc.).