Donald Trump Releases Plan to Make Mexico Pay for Border Wall

[Crabtownboy]

I remember a time when we Americans proudly talked about how we were not like the Communist and others requiring a national identity card. It is sad that now so many are finding that Communist idea a good one.

Wonder if the conservatives will want to building send people to re-education centers next?

 

[Use of Time]

Increase border patrols, instead of telling them to let illegals go.
Penalize individuals and businesses that employ illegals.
If an illegal has managed to be here for a year without legal incident, give them a temporary visa and put them in the system for citizenship. I need to look up the typical timelines for obtaining citizenship.
If they refuse to comply with citizenship requirements, or they've had any legal incidents, immediately deport them.
If they're repeat offenders (been deported and returned), or commit a serious crime (such as murder), life in prison (they wanted to be here, taking advantage of the American system; so let's put them in an American system that will take care of them).

I'm open to discussion. My answers aren't perfect, and need tweaking.

They may bot be perfect Don but they are reasonable and realistic. A good start. I'm not quite ready to be questioned if found walking around without my papers, it's shocking to see some so called conservatives flippantly dismissing that as a necessary evil.

 

[Revmitchell]

Increase border patrols, instead of telling them to let illegals go.
Penalize individuals and businesses that employ illegals.
If an illegal has managed to be here for a year without legal incident, give them a temporary visa and put them in the system for citizenship. I need to look up the typical timelines for obtaining citizenship.
If they refuse to comply with citizenship requirements, or they've had any legal incidents, immediately deport them.
If they're repeat offenders (been deported and returned), or commit a serious crime (such as murder), life in prison (they wanted to be here, taking advantage of the American system; so let's put them in an American system that will take care of them).

I'm open to discussion. My answers aren't perfect, and need tweaking.

I understand your position but that does not actually answer my question. We have to "show papers" for a great many things. I listed a few. Not sure why the focus here is any different.

 

[Revmitchell]

For the most part, I view them as regrettable necessities. Just because they are so, it doesn't mean I like them or the situations that brought them about. My wife still has her internal passport from the Former Soviet Union. Like I wrote above, I can think of at least three ways (like any Baptist preacher) to get around Mr. Trump's proposal. One is a variation on the Islamic system of money transfers. Another is (for a fee) to walk the cash across the border. Yet another is to send the funds to a third country and then to Mexico. There's enough money flowing here for people to figure out how to circumvent it.

Well, we have illegals here and they need to be there. they are here illegally and then being hired to work. I agree if we cut off the ability to be hired and stop all drivers licenses and public assistance they will go home. No need for "papers", no need for stopping remittances, no need for deportation. They will deport themselves.

 

[Aaron]

"Show me your papers." Isn't this what the nazis used to say to suspected Jews?

. . . and what local cops say to citizens at routine traffic stops.

 

[InTheLight]

. . . and what local cops say to citizens at routine traffic stops.

Yes, because they have probable cause to pull you over. Wiring money to someone is not probable cause.

 

[OnlyaSinner]

"I favor not having US money going to a country that is nothing but a leach and does absolutely nothing to create its own industry but instead sends its people to other countries where they take the place of American workers and then send that money back to their home country. It needs to end."

If that process were able to be applied ONLY to those here illegally, I might see the logic. However, our incomplete (to be very generous) knowledge which Mexicans - or nationals of other lands - are here legally or illegally would seem to make that very impractical. Would Trump's idea include those here legally, with valid visas, or even those who are naturalized US citizens with family back in the old country? Our church supports missionaries to Mexico. These are all US-born citizens, but most of our support will go toward the economy of that "nothing but a leech" country. Does that money get stopped?

I'm guessing the answers will be "no" to all my questions. They've only been posed to further show that it's nowhere as simple as the proposer seems to think.

 

[HankD]

I tend to be very uncomfortable with the idea of requiring Americans to have what amounts to internal passports. To me, internal passports are the hallmark of totalitarian regimes (e.g. USSR, PRC, WW2 Germany and its occupied countries, etc.)

Hmm, better shred your driver's license.

 

[Aaron]

Yes, because they have probable cause to pull you over. Wiring money to someone is not probable cause.

But, wiring money to someone out of the country isn't subject to constitutional protections.

 

[InTheLight]

But, wiring money to someone out of the country isn't subject to constitutional protections.

And....so? Do we want to live in a country where the government can interfere with your life just because they feel like it?

 

[Aaron]

We already do. It's the invasion force of illegals that are the protected class now.

 

[InTheLight]

We already do. It's the invasion force of illegals that are the protected class now.

You keep avoiding the question. Here it is:

If your church wanted to wire money to a missionary in another country, they should be required to go to an approved "electronic money transfer agent" (or other entity), show their driver's license, and fill out a form before they are allowed to send the money?

 

[Revmitchell]

You keep avoiding the question. Here it is:

If your church wanted to wire money to a missionary in another country, they should be required to go to an approved "electronic money transfer agent" (or other entity), show their driver's license, and fill out a form before they are allowed to send the money?

I'm lost. Why does this have to be the only option available?

 

[Zaac]

For folks who like to talk about smaller government and less government intervention in your lives, the radicalized right sure does love to use that same government to interfere in everybody else's lives.

 

[InTheLight]

I'm lost. Why does this have to be the only option available?

It doesn't need to be the only option. It's the most straightforward one I could think of. Obviously if you want to shut down money transfers to Mexico you have to shut down online wire transfer services.

How about you propose a way to intercept and account for money transfers to Mexico (or elsewhere.) How would you go about doing it?

 

[Zaac]

It doesn't need to be the only option. It's the most straightforward one I could think of. Obviously if you want to shut down money transfers to Mexico you have to shut down online wire transfer services.

How about you propose a way to intercept and account for money transfers to Mexico (or elsewhere.) How would you go about doing it?

You'd have to shut down the internet and take away the ability of all US citizens to send money outside the US because no one has to send money directly to Mexico for it to get to Mexico.

In turn, you'd have to have banks and third parties block their servers abilities to do pretty much everything.

It would be a logistical nightmare unless you controlled everything with an iron hand.

 

[Don]

. . . and what local cops say to citizens at routine traffic stops.

Not an appropriate analogy. Unless you consider "I think you look like an illegal" to be worthy of a traffic stop.

 

[Revmitchell]

It doesn't need to be the only option. It's the most straightforward one I could think of. Obviously if you want to shut down money transfers to Mexico you have to shut down online wire transfer services.

How about you propose a way to intercept and account for money transfers to Mexico (or elsewhere.) How would you go about doing it?

Cut off the money at its root. If they cant work and if they cant obtain public money they cant send it home.

 

[Don]

Cut off the money at its root. If they cant work and if they cant obtain public money they cant send it home.

Which was my reply....

 

[Don]

I have to have my papers when I fly, join the military, apply for a loan etc.

Careful about mixing things. Showing proof of identity is one thing; showing proof of citizenship is another. You don't have to prove you're a citizen to apply for a loan; you don't have to prove you're a citizen to fly.

In your list, you mention an option: Military. Why not give the illegals another option: 4 years military service, or whatever minimum requirement for the branch of service, and they become citizens.