don't want a Christian nation

[StraightAndNarrow]

Jesus said that we should be in this world but not of this world. My main concern about a Christian nation is that when government distorts Christianity many people will go along. Christians won't think that they must be separate from the world because the world (nation) is "Christian." Their beliefs will be watered down and they will go along with the "Christian" crowd. They will become lukewarm and just like the church at Laodicea and therefore detested by Christ.

 

[carpro]

Originally posted by StraightAndNarrow:
Jesus said that we should be in this world but not of this world. My main concern about a Christian nation is that when government distorts Christianity many people will go along. Christians won't think that they must be separate from the world because the world (nation) is "Christian." Their beliefs will be watered down and they will go along with the "Christian" crowd. They will become lukewarm and just like the church at Laodicea and therefore detested by Christ.

You can't protect people from themselves. The weak will always wander. The strong in faith will stay the course.

 

[mioque]

We see 4 different definitions of the term Christian nation used at the same time in this discussion.
People talk about very different things on this thread using the same term causing some confusion.

A Christian nation = a country where all the citizens are devout Christians.

A Christian nation = the world during the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ

A Christian nation = a Theocracy under the boot of one specific denomination

A Christian nation = a country that is governed in large part by people that base their decisions on Christian precepts.

 

[emeraldctyangel]

Originally posted by TexasSky:
Carpro,

You are right. It is not about "theocracy."

It is about guaranteeing communities certain rights, including the right to teach an elective bible class at the local high school. It is about a judge not being fired for standing up for the display of the 10 Commandments. It is about standing up for family values.

It should be allowable for schools to teach the Bible as an elective. I was just a year too young to take Bible classes before it got kicked out of school. I think it is time for the whip to lash back to the middle.

I didnt think you meant it that way in your first post, after all that talk about freedom to choose God or not, it would sound odd to want to have it possibly forced onto our people as a law. I think if there was more exposure to God's word, then people would follow it, perhaps unknowingly. Of course I use the logic that if MTV can be, well, MTV and people act and talk they way they do on that channel without knowing why, the same could go for good values.

 

[emeraldctyangel]

Originally posted by King James:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by carpro:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by King James:
Jesus affirming the Law has nothing to do with it being Christian. It was given to Israel.

If Christ affirmed it, it's Christian. </font>[/QUOTE]Christ also affirmed hating your parents and gouging out your eyes. </font>[/QUOTE]Perverting the word of Christ are ya?
Tsk tsk.

Hatred is comparative. Luke 14:25-27

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by mioque:
We see 4 different definitions of the term Christian nation used at the same time in this discussion.
People talk about very different things on this thread using the same term causing some confusion.

A Christian nation 1 = a country where all the citizens are devout Christians.

A Christian nation 2 = the world during the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ

A Christian nation 3 = a Theocracy under the boot of one specific denomination

A Christian nation 4 = a country that is governed in large part by people that base their decisions on Christian precepts.

Amen, Sister Mioque - well said. (I've added numbers for
discussion)

#1 seems only possible during the #2 time - folks aren't going
to be very close to perfect save when He who is perfect is among
us.

#4 is a pipe dream that some folks thing we had in the USofA
some time in the past but lost it. In fact, we never had it
in the USofA. We cannot have it no matter what the government
of the USofA does, it depends upon the individual decisions
of the people.
It will only exist in 'A Christian nation #2".

The only historical examples of "a Christian nation" are of
type #3. I believe it to be the only type that can be
established by people, even well intentioned people.
It is the Christian nation type #3 that the Opening post is
about.

[sarcasm] The bed rock of a Christian nation would be
the suppression of the female chattle. The USofA has been
going downhill since they gave women the vote. Remember
in my Christian nation #3 there will be no women posters

Who wants to sign up now?

[/sarcasm]

Seriously, it is foolish to expect 'Christian Nation 3' to be
good for any of us. 'Christian Nation 3' is your worse
nighmare come true. The Tribualtion kingdom of Antichrist (AC)
will have one religion. This religion will likely be
called "Christian" for the AC won't call himself 'antichrist'
but will call himself 'Christ'.

 

[mioque]

I'm actually going to disagree with brother Ed a little. A number of countries have come fairly close to Christian nation 4 (= a country that is governed in large part by people that base their decisions on Christian precepts.) status at least for a little while. The cabinet led by the earlier mentioned Abraham Kuyper being a good example.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Would this Christian nation folks seem to want so much include liberal Christians and Roman Catholic Christians in determining Christian precepts under which we should be submit to?

 

[carpro]

Originally posted by King James:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by carpro:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by King James:
Jesus affirming the Law has nothing to do with it being Christian. It was given to Israel.

If Christ affirmed it, it's Christian. </font>[/QUOTE]Christ also affirmed hating your parents and gouging out your eyes. </font>[/QUOTE]Perverting the Gospel, even in jest, is not a good idea, KJ. You never know who's watching or hearing that you might lead astray.

Ephesians 6:2

Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;

 

[carpro]

Originally posted by Gold Dragon:
Would this Christian nation folks seem to want so much include liberal Christians and Roman Catholic Christians in determining Christian precepts under which we should be submit to?

Submit?

Do you not already submit yourself to God, His Word, and the precepts He teaches thru it?

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by carpro:
Submit?

Do you not already submit yourself to God, His Word, and the precepts He teaches thru it?

Yes, yes and yes.

NASB : Romans 13:1

Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

 

[carpro]

Originally posted by Gold Dragon:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by carpro:
Submit?

Do you not already submit yourself to God, His Word, and the precepts He teaches thru it?

Yes, yes and yes.

NASB : Romans 13:1

Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

</font>[/QUOTE]Good. So why would it be a bad thing to live in a Christian nation and why wouldn't it include Catholics?

You'll have to define "liberal Christain" for me, but it seems to me the key word is Christain. Is there something different about a "liberal Christain" as opposed to someone who is simply a Christain?

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by carpro:
Good. So why would it be a bad thing to live in a Christian nation and why wouldn't it include Catholics?

You'll have to define "liberal Christain" for me, but it seems to me the key word is Christain. Is there something different about a "liberal Christain" as opposed to someone who is simply a Christain?

I'm glad you feel this way. By liberal, I was referring to theologically liberal.

Any "Christian nation" seeking my support would include Catholics and liberal Christians both in population and in determining what are the "Christian precepts" that would govern the nation.

However, I have a feeling that many who support the idea of a "Christian nation" would disagree with me. Many who want a "Christian" nation really want a "governed by people like me" nation.

 

[OCC]

Originally posted by emeraldctyangel:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by King James:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by carpro:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by King James:
Jesus affirming the Law has nothing to do with it being Christian. It was given to Israel.

If Christ affirmed it, it's Christian. </font>[/QUOTE]Christ also affirmed hating your parents and gouging out your eyes. </font>[/QUOTE]Perverting the word of Christ are ya?
Tsk tsk.

Hatred is comparative. Luke 14:25-27 </font>[/QUOTE]How am I perverting the Word of God? Before you mock me next time, prove your allegation! Were the Ten Commandments not given to Israel? Did Jesus not say "hate your parents" and "gouge out your eyes"? Did He or did He NOT? And what are you talking about "hatred"?

 

[OCC]

Originally posted by carpro:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by King James:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by carpro:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by King James:
Jesus affirming the Law has nothing to do with it being Christian. It was given to Israel.

If Christ affirmed it, it's Christian. </font>[/QUOTE]Christ also affirmed hating your parents and gouging out your eyes. </font>[/QUOTE]Perverting the Gospel, even in jest, is not a good idea, KJ. You never know who's watching or hearing that you might lead astray.

Ephesians 6:2

Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise; </font>[/QUOTE]carpro, not perverting the Word. I am saying exactly what Jesus said. I am not giving the context because the context was not required. I was using what I said to show you that you were wrong. The Ten Commandments are not "Christian" per se. They were given to Israel. They are of Jewish ORIGIN.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by TexasSky:
By the way John - I thought you were a Christian. Why would a Christian nation prevent you from exercising your religious rights?

When the government starts enforcing a particular religious belief, they usurp my rights to religious liberty. This is true even if the government is enforcing my religious belief.

 

[carpro]

Originally posted by King James:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by carpro:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by King James:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by carpro:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by King James:
Jesus affirming the Law has nothing to do with it being Christian. It was given to Israel.

If Christ affirmed it, it's Christian. </font>[/QUOTE]Christ also affirmed hating your parents and gouging out your eyes. </font>[/QUOTE]Perverting the Gospel, even in jest, is not a good idea, KJ. You never know who's watching or hearing that you might lead astray.

Ephesians 6:2

Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise; </font>[/QUOTE]carpro, not perverting the Word. I am saying exactly what Jesus said. I am not giving the context because the context was not required. I was using what I said to show you that you were wrong. The Ten Commandments are not "Christian" per se. They were given to Israel. They are of Jewish ORIGIN. </font>[/QUOTE]Context is usually important. So please do provide the scripture reference.

 

[OCC]

To what? Where the Ten Commandments are given to Israel? Where Jesus said to hate your parents? You know where they are but to humour you I will post them when I get back from shopping for some clothes. My aunt died and that is more important than playing word games with you.

 

[OCC]

Originally posted by carpro:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by King James:
Jesus affirming the Law has nothing to do with it being Christian. It was given to Israel.

If Christ affirmed it, it's Christian. </font>[/QUOTE]BTW...I don't see any Scripture reference here from you.

 

[carpro]

Originally posted by King James:
To what? Where the Ten Commandments are given to Israel? Where Jesus said to hate your parents? You know where they are but to humour you I will post them when I get back from shopping for some clothes. My aunt died and that is more important than playing word games with you.

Your arguments are specious at best and some of your statements are just flat out...wrong.

I'd like a scripture where Jesus said to "hate your parents", of course.

I think everyone here but you knows the Ten Commandments came from God and not the Jews.

As for a scripture reference from me, I think you should know it's in the sermon on the mount, especially since I informed you where it was. You do know how to find the sermon on the mount, don't you?