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Dr Boettner and The Offer of the Gospel

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
While I believe that every person is dead in sins, I do not believe that this "dead" means that they cannot hear the Gospel, but rather they are "dead" in their relationship with God, due to sin.
So, are you saying the Gospel is not of God? The person dead in their trespass and sin in their relationship to God but not dead to their relationship to God's Gospel?

How much can a dead man hear? How much can a dead man believe? How much can a dead man repent? How much can a dead man obey.

You are right. It is very simple. You don't understand what being dead means.
 

Calv1

Active Member
"The Gospel is, nevertheless, to be offered to all men, with the assurance that it is exactly adapted to the needs of all men, and that God has decreed that all who place their faith in Christ shall be saved by Him. No man is lost because of any deficiency in the objective atonement, or because God has placed any barrier in His way, but only because of subjective difficulties, specifically, because because of his own evil disposition and his freely exercised wicked will will prevent his believing and accepting that atonement" (Studies in Theology; pages 323-324).

Now, has God decreed the "ALL" who place their faith in Jesus, as "elect", or "all without exception"? If the former, then Dr Boettner's argument is faulty. Then he goes on to say, that "no man is lost", because of God "placing any barrier in his way", which again can only refer to the "non-elect", but, this reasoning is faulty, as the "barrier" that God has placed, according to Calvinism, is LIMITED ATONEMENT. IF, as this teaches, that Jesus Christ ONLY died for SOME, then this DOES become a "barrier" to those for whom He did not die. Dr Boettner, then accuses the person who does not accept Jesus, of having a "evil disposition" and "freely exercised wicked will", which again contradicts "Calvinism", which teaches that man does NOT have a "free will", to accept or reject the Gospel of Salvation, as their "fate" has already been predetermined.

This is a very confused individual. What Dr. Boettner doesn't understand is that the gospel call is supposed to go out to ALL MEN, clearly it doesn't, for billions have never read or heard of the gospel. Clearly the God who created the Heavens , and Earth could find a way to get the gospel to all men, but He purposely withholds giving them the gospel (IE Iran, China, etc.).

This does not mean that we are not to proclaim the gospel to everyone, but where in scripture do we find a "Invitation", it is not found, what is rather found is "Repent and Believe", a command, and this command goes to all, however not all are elect, so this call will only have some effect, namely those of the DEFINITE ATONEMENT. Limited Atonement is an unfortunate term, the Arminian term is even worse "Possible Atonement", that is even though it's clear Christ did not die for all (If He did all men's sins would be paid for, and God could never judge them again, IE if Hitlers sin were paid for by Christ, then they were paid for and he is in Heaven today.

"Possible Atonement" is what Arminians believe, that is Jesus died for a men, but possibly had no effect, why? For out of mans free will, which is stronger than God's free will they say, it's possible that NO ONE COMES, this is no gospel, is heresy, and should be put in the category of theology of the Roman Church.

The bible teaches Definite Atonement, Eph 1, Romans 8&9, John 6, etc. That is God's plan cannot be faltered, those who were chosen before the foundation of the world were regenerated by God, and when they heard the gospel call responded, the repented and believed, while the non-elect hate the gospel, they willingly hate Christ and God.

The reason for confusion is only ignorance on the Arminian side, they try to make it sound like some, oh they'd love to come to God, but shoot they are non-elect, this is not Scriptural and not what we believe, the non-elect hate God, do not desire Him, and never will, there has never been a human in history who desired God who has been rejected. When you talk to a person about the Lord and he curse you and Christ, chances are He's non-elect.

Arminians keep trying, but this is amateur stuff, you can battle God all you wish, but you're only harming yourself, and insulting God. Jesus on the night of His betrayal, in His high priestly prayer, He prayed that all would come, right? Wrong, He prayed "Father I do NOT pray for the world, but FOR THOSE YOU HAVE GIVEN ME", study folks, and you won't fall into this anti-Christian heresy
 

Calv1

Active Member
So, are you saying the Gospel is not of God? The person dead in their trespass and sin in their relationship to God but not dead to their relationship to God's Gospel?

How much can a dead man hear? How much can a dead man believe? How much can a dead man repent? How much can a dead man obey.

You are right. It is very simple. You don't understand what being dead means.

Good man! If they'd just study the word, it's right there for them.
 

Calv1

Active Member
You argue for man's will being greater and more powerful than God's will. You have a puny and weak God, Andy. But, on the flip-side you're a Titan!!! Pat yourself on the back for your greatness and most powerful will.

That's right, read my response. Did you see what the Lord did for me? Read that post and look towards the end. You were a friend in my worst time and I truly appreciate it. Isn't it amazing that one person came and helped me? I was REALLY IN BAD SHAPE, confused, "Has God abandoned me", though I know it's not possible we get overcome with emotions. Our God is amazing, praising Him all weekend, like every minute. How do I thank Him? "thanks" is not enough!
 

Calv1

Active Member
Can you come out of your Calvinistic mindset and see what you are saying? The offer of salvation through the Gospel is to every human being. However, it is not really to every human being, as only those whom God enables to respond to the offer, can get saved! This means that the offer is a sham! There is no other way to describe it.

WHAT OFFER? There is no offer, that's a modern, liberal invention. Read the scriptures and show me a "Invitation", you'll come up dry, no we have a COMMAND, "Repent and Believe", you won't have an invitation from a King, you repent and believe or you don't, only the elect repent and believe, the non-elect hate God, want nothing to do with Him.

If you mean "General Call", that is "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved", what about it? We had the ten COMMANDMENTS, NO ONE did them! So we are to take the gospel to all, for God knows the elect, but we don't, there is no "E" on their shirts. In your way of thinking it's possible that NO ONE IN ALL TIME BELIEVE, for it's all chance, your god is in heaven, in infinite love with all, begging like a child, "Oh please oh please come to me I love you", "shoot another that I love dies, now I have to change and pour out my furious wrath, sorry one that I love, now I have to hate you and torture you, such bad luck you lived in Iran".

You get out of your TRADITION, and get into SCRIPTURE, put off all of the liberalism you've been taught. A great starting point is watching online debates, no Arminian has ever beat a Calvinist because we have scripture on our side, they have philosophy and emotion. I pray God opens your eyes, your god is small and puny, a beggar who is defeated every day
 

MennoSota

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
That's right, read my response. Did you see what the Lord did for me? Read that post and look towards the end. You were a friend in my worst time and I truly appreciate it. Isn't it amazing that one person came and helped me? I was REALLY IN BAD SHAPE, confused, "Has God abandoned me", though I know it's not possible we get overcome with emotions. Our God is amazing, praising Him all weekend, like every minute. How do I thank Him? "thanks" is not enough!
I am grateful that God could use me when I am so utterly flawed. We will praise our good and gracious God together.
 
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