Dr Boettner and The Offer of the Gospel

[AndyMartin]

"The Gospel is, nevertheless, to be offered to all men, with the assurance that it is exactly adapted to the needs of all men, and that God has decreed that all who place their faith in Christ shall be saved by Him. No man is lost because of any deficiency in the objective atonement, or because God has placed any barrier in His way, but only because of subjective difficulties, specifically, because because of his own evil disposition and his freely exercised wicked will will prevent his believing and accepting that atonement" (Studies in Theology; pages 323-324).

Now, has God decreed the "ALL" who place their faith in Jesus, as "elect", or "all without exception"? If the former, then Dr Boettner's argument is faulty. Then he goes on to say, that "no man is lost", because of God "placing any barrier in his way", which again can only refer to the "non-elect", but, this reasoning is faulty, as the "barrier" that God has placed, according to Calvinism, is LIMITED ATONEMENT. IF, as this teaches, that Jesus Christ ONLY died for SOME, then this DOES become a "barrier" to those for whom He did not die. Dr Boettner, then accuses the person who does not accept Jesus, of having a "evil disposition" and "freely exercised wicked will", which again contradicts "Calvinism", which teaches that man does NOT have a "free will", to accept or reject the Gospel of Salvation, as their "fate" has already been predetermined.

 

[Yeshua1]

"The Gospel is, nevertheless, to be offered to all men, with the assurance that it is exactly adapted to the needs of all men, and that God has decreed that all who place their faith in Christ shall be saved by Him. No man is lost because of any deficiency in the objective atonement, or because God has placed any barrier in His way, but only because of subjective difficulties, specifically, because because of his own evil disposition and his freely exercised wicked will will prevent his believing and accepting that atonement" (Studies in Theology; pages 323-324).

Now, has God decreed the "ALL" who place their faith in Jesus, as "elect", or "all without exception"? If the former, then Dr Boettner's argument is faulty. Then he goes on to say, that "no man is lost", because of God "placing any barrier in his way", which again can only refer to the "non-elect", but, this reasoning is faulty, as the "barrier" that God has placed, according to Calvinism, is LIMITED ATONEMENT. IF, as this teaches, that Jesus Christ ONLY died for SOME, then this DOES become a "barrier" to those for whom He did not die. Dr Boettner, then accuses the person who does not accept Jesus, of having a "evil disposition" and "freely exercised wicked will", which again contradicts "Calvinism", which teaches that man does NOT have a "free will", to accept or reject the Gospel of Salvation, as their "fate" has already been predetermined.

All sinners are already condemned , as they are from birth judged by God to have been part of the fall of Adam, so the offer of Jesus as messiah is legit, its just that God will enable those whom he intended to get saved by the Cross to respond to his offer!

 

[AndyMartin]

All sinners are already condemned , as they are from birth judged by God to have been part of the fall of Adam, so the offer of Jesus as messiah is legit, its just that God will enable those whom he intended to get saved by the Cross to respond to his offer!

Can you come out of your Calvinistic mindset and see what you are saying? The offer of salvation through the Gospel is to every human being. However, it is not really to every human being, as only those whom God enables to respond to the offer, can get saved! This means that the offer is a sham! There is no other way to describe it.

 

[TCassidy]

There is no other way to describe it.

Well, other than the correct way.

 

[AndyMartin]

Well, other than the correct way.

 

[TCassidy]

WILLIAM A BRAKEL

(17th Century Dutch Theologian)

There is a general and unconditional declaration to all, that is, to him who thirsts, who is without money, and who wills (Isa. 55:1–2; John 7:37; Rev. 22:17). He who neither wills nor is thirsty will refrain from coming. This is his own doing and he will be responsible, having been invited and having heard this general calling. Since many reject the gospel, it is necessarily offered to them, for whatever is not offered cannot be rejected. "It was necessary that the Word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles" (Acts 13:46). Many are disobedient to the gospel (2 Th. 1:8), and are disobedient to the Son (John 3:36). It thus follows that Christ was offered to them and they were commanded to believe in Christ. (The Christian's Reasonable Service)

 

[AndyMartin]

WILLIAM A BRAKEL

(17th Century Dutch Theologian)

There is a general and unconditional declaration to all, that is, to him who thirsts, who is without money, and who wills (Isa. 55:1–2; John 7:37; Rev. 22:17). He who neither wills nor is thirsty will refrain from coming. This is his own doing and he will be responsible, having been invited and having heard this general calling. Since many reject the gospel, it is necessarily offered to them, for whatever is not offered cannot be rejected. "It was necessary that the Word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles" (Acts 13:46). Many are disobedient to the gospel (2 Th. 1:8), and are disobedient to the Son (John 3:36). It thus follows that Christ was offered to them and they were commanded to believe in Christ. (The Christian's Reasonable Service)

Why offer the Gospel of salvation from sins to ALL, when ALL people's sins were not included in the Atonement? If Jesus died only for the "elect", then the honest offer can only be to them. How can a sincere offer be made to those whom God know cannot be ever saved, because Jesus' Atonement did not cover their sin. If you people still cannot understand this, then I quit discussing it as you have blinkers on!

 

[TCassidy]

Why offer the Gospel of salvation from sins to ALL,

Because God commands it.

If Jesus died only for the "elect", then the honest offer can only be to them.

So God is dishonest for offering salvation to those who He knows will reject it?

How can a sincere offer be made to those whom God know cannot be ever saved, because Jesus' Atonement did not cover their sin.

So God is insincere for offering salvation to those He knows will reject it?

If you people still cannot understand this, then I quit discussing it as you have blinkers on!

We understand that salvation is of the Lord, not of ourselves. I think it may be you who is wearing the blinkers. The blinkers of humanism, that seems to think man can add his own innate faith (which doesn't exist) to the finished work of Christ on the cross. Was the work of salvation finished on the cross, or did you have to add something to it?

 

[AndyMartin]

Because God commands it.

even though He knows that it has not effect on the non-elect, as they are not included in the Atonement? This is more unbiblical Calvinistic "theology"!

 

[TCassidy]

even though He knows that it has not effect on the non-elect, as they are not included in the Atonement? This is more unbiblical Calvinistic "theology"!

So you think God is wrong to offer salvation through the gospel to those He knows will reject it?

 

[TCassidy]

This is more unbiblical Calvinistic "theology"!

No, this is bible. Do you believe, as the bible says, that Jesus said "It is finished" on the cross, or do you believe it was not finished and you have to add something to His work on the cross in order to be saved?

 

[AndyMartin]

So you think God is wrong to offer salvation through the gospel to those He knows will reject it?

No. Because I believe that He has made provision in the Atonement of Jesus even for those who reject it, as seen from 2 Peter 2:1

Lets put it this way. Jesus is at the well of water that gives eternal life. He says to "All", come and drink of it, and you shall never die. Then he tells some of them, sorry, you can drink of it, but in your case you will not live forever, as it is not really meant for ALL of you!!! This is exactly what Calvinism does which reduces God to a liar!

 

[AndyMartin]

No, this is bible. Do you believe, as the bible says, that Jesus said "It is finished" on the cross, or do you believe it was not finished and you have to add something to His work on the cross in order to be saved?

Finished is just that!

 

[TCassidy]

Finished is just that!

So you don't add anything to it! Good! Now we are getting somewhere! You don't add your faith. You don't add your repentance, you don't add your obedience. You add NOTHING! Salvation is all of God and none of you.

Glad to see you have finally seen the light!

 

[AndyMartin]

So you don't add anything to it! Good! Now we are getting somewhere! You don't add your faith. You don't add your repentance, you don't add your obedience. You add NOTHING! Salvation is all of God and none of you.

Glad to see you have finally seen the light!

I did not say that. Repentance and faith are a pre-requirement for salvation

 

[TCassidy]

No. Because I believe that He has made provision in the Atonement of Jesus even for those who reject it, as seen from 2 Peter 2:1

But you said it was wrong for people to go to hell for rejecting Christ, didn't you? God offers salvation to all, but those who reject it go to hell. So, according to you, because God knew they were going to reject the offer and go to hell, He is wrong.

Lets put it this way. Jesus is at the well of water that gives eternal life. He says to "All", come and drink of it, and you shall never die.

So far, so good.

Then he tells some of them, sorry, you can drink of it, but in your case you will not live forever, as it is not really meant for ALL of you!!!

And this is where you have fallen for the Devil's lie. You say some of them come to drink but Jesus tells them it will do no good. The truth is that they refuse to come. They do not want to drink. They are not thirsty. They think his offer is a joke.

This is exactly what Calvinism does which reduces God to a liar!

No, Andy, that is not what Particular Redemption teaches. What you have said is the deception straight out of the pit of hell.

Please, do two things for me. First, don't accuse God of being a liar. We all know that it is the Devil who is the liar and the father of lies.

Second don't accuse those of us who acknowledge the Sovereignty of God in Salvation and believe that "it is finished" of believing something we don't believe.

You have demonstrated clearly that you have no real understanding of monergism.

Scroll up to where I corrected your error of understanding. You said some of them who come will be told by Jesus, "sorry, you can drink of it, but in your case you will not live forever, as it is not really meant for ALL of you!!!"

You see, Andy, that is the Devil's lie. Nobody who comes will be turned away. All those who the Father draws will come and will be raised up on the last day.

Those who reject won't come. They don't want to come. They don't recognize their own thirst nor the value of the water being offered. And it is those who God knew before would reject, who remain in their sin. It is not God's fault they reject and blaspheme the work of Christ. That is their sin nature. God does not even condemn them for not coming. They are already condemned.

Apart from the Grace of God, in the Drawing of the Father, nobody would ever come and nobody would ever be saved.

Salvation is by the Grace of God, not your works of faith, repentance, or obedience. Grace. All of Grace.

Ephesians 2:8 for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, that no one would boast.

 

[AndyMartin]

But you said it was wrong for people to go to hell for rejecting Christ, didn't you? God offers salvation to all, but those who reject it go to hell. So, according to you, because God knew they were going to reject the offer and go to hell, He is wrong.

So far, so good.And this is where you have fallen for the Devil's lie. You say some of them come to drink but Jesus tells them it will do no good. The truth is that they refuse to come. They do not want to drink. They are not thirsty. They think his offer is a joke.No, Andy, that is not what Particular Redemption teaches. What you have said is the deception straight out of the pit of hell.

Please, do two things for me. First, don't accuse God of being a liar. We all know that it is the Devil who is the liar and the father of lies.

Second don't accuse those of us who acknowledge the Sovereignty of God in Salvation and believe that "it is finished" of believing something we don't believe.

You have demonstrated clearly that you have no real understanding of monergism.

Scroll up to where I corrected your error of understanding. You said some of them who come will be told by Jesus, "sorry, you can drink of it, but in your case you will not live forever, as it is not really meant for ALL of you!!!"

You see, Andy, that is the Devil's lie. Nobody who comes will be turned away. All those who the Father draws will come and will be raised up on the last day.

Those who reject won't come. They don't want to come. They don't recognize their own thirst nor the value of the water being offered. And it is those who God knew before would reject, who remain in their sin. It is not God's fault they reject and blaspheme the work of Christ. That is their sin nature. God does not even condemn them for not coming. They are already condemned.

Apart from the Grace of God, in the Drawing of the Father, nobody would ever come and nobody would ever be saved.

Salvation is by the Grace of God, not your works of faith, repentance, or obedience. Grace. All of Grace.

Ephesians 2:8 for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, that no one would boast.

You say, "The truth is that they refuse to come". how can they "refuse" which is the exercise of their "will", if as you believe, they don't have a "free will", which is the ability to make a choice between options!

No person can ever get saved if they do not repent BEFORE. You are teaching a false gospel!

 

[TCassidy]

You say, "The truth is that they refuse to come". how can they "refuse" which is the exercise of their "will", if as you believe, they don't have a "free will", which is the ability to make a choice between options!

Once again you show you do not have a good understanding of the issue. Making choices does NOT equal "free will." "Free will" is the teaching that man's will is NOT in bondage to the law of sin and death, but is FREE to do righteousness apart from the Power of God.

The truth is that their will IS in bondage to the law of sin and death and therefore they choose NOT to come, choose NOT to drink, choose NOT to obey.

No person can ever get saved if they do not repent BEFORE. You are teaching a false gospel!

No, Andy, it is you who is teaching a false gospel. There is no good in the lost man that would allow him to believe, repent, or obey without the Grace of God the Father first drawing him to Christ. You are teaching a false gospel of works, not the true Gospel of the Grace of Almighty God apart from works.

Romans 4:6 Even as David also pronounces blessing on the man to whom God counts righteousness apart from works.

And even James makes it clear that works are the result of faith, not the other way around.

James 2:20 But do you want to know, vain man, that faith apart from works is dead?

 

[AndyMartin]

Once again you show you do not have a good understanding of the issue. Making choices does NOT equal "free will." "Free will" is the teaching that man's will is NOT in bondage to the law of sin and death, but is FREE to do righteousness apart from the Power of God.

The truth is that their will IS in bondage to the law of sin and death and therefore they choose NOT to come, choose NOT to drink, choose NOT to obey.

No, Andy, it is you who is teaching a false gospel. There is no good in the lost man that would allow him to believe, repent, or obey without the Grace of God the Father first drawing him to Christ. You are teaching a false gospel of works, not the true Gospel of the Grace of Almighty God apart from works.

Romans 4:6 Even as David also pronounces blessing on the man to whom God counts righteousness apart from works.

And even James makes it clear that works are the result of faith, not the other way around.

James 2:20 But do you want to know, vain man, that faith apart from works is dead?

You see the difference is very simple. While I believe that every person is dead in sins, I do not believe that this "dead" means that they cannot hear the Gospel, but rather they are "dead" in their relationship with God, due to sin. The work of the Holy Spirit, as Jesus said in John 16, is to "convict the world of sin", so that they could respond the the Gospel call. I fully agree that no person can ever come to the Lord, without the working of the Holy Spirit first in their lives, to convict and save. Jesus Himself says that "unless you repent you will perish". "And repent and believe the Gospel", and "repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. and "And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit", "Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord"

 

[MennoSota]

"The Gospel is, nevertheless, to be offered to all men, with the assurance that it is exactly adapted to the needs of all men, and that God has decreed that all who place their faith in Christ shall be saved by Him. No man is lost because of any deficiency in the objective atonement, or because God has placed any barrier in His way, but only because of subjective difficulties, specifically, because because of his own evil disposition and his freely exercised wicked will will prevent his believing and accepting that atonement" (Studies in Theology; pages 323-324).

Now, has God decreed the "ALL" who place their faith in Jesus, as "elect", or "all without exception"? If the former, then Dr Boettner's argument is faulty. Then he goes on to say, that "no man is lost", because of God "placing any barrier in his way", which again can only refer to the "non-elect", but, this reasoning is faulty, as the "barrier" that God has placed, according to Calvinism, is LIMITED ATONEMENT. IF, as this teaches, that Jesus Christ ONLY died for SOME, then this DOES become a "barrier" to those for whom He did not die. Dr Boettner, then accuses the person who does not accept Jesus, of having a "evil disposition" and "freely exercised wicked will", which again contradicts "Calvinism", which teaches that man does NOT have a "free will", to accept or reject the Gospel of Salvation, as their "fate" has already been predetermined.

You argue for man's will being greater and more powerful than God's will. You have a puny and weak God, Andy. But, on the flip-side you're a Titan!!! Pat yourself on the back for your greatness and most powerful will.