Dr. Graham answered my letter

[TexasSky]

BillyMac,

It is on my work computer. If I have it when I get back to the office I'll post it.

Re the rude cracks about the letter from other sources:

I titled this the way I did because I wrote to
Dr. Graham, via his organization, and when the answer came back it specifically addressed questions raised in my email and was signed with the name of a woman in his office, identified as a member of his administrative staff. I left in the woman's title specifically so that these kind of rude implications would be avoided. It is CLEAR that the letter went through a 3rd party, but it responds to a letter I mailed to Dr. Graham, it specifically answers my questions, and it quotes Dr. Graham. If it was a form letter, it was better than most.

I left the titles of the correspondent up in the name of total honesty. I took the NAME out in respect to the woman's privacy.

I work for people who I often correspond for, according to the information they have asked me to convey on their behalf. I do not sign their names to those letters, even though I am conveying their instructions and thoughts.

Pastor Larry -

For more years than I can remember all I have heard come out of Dr. Graham's lips is the true story of the salvation of Christ.

Yet - you insist that he teaches false doctorine.

I look at Dr. Graham and I see a man who looks at men who attacks him and, asks them to pray for him. I look at you, and I see ugliness and bitterness.

I have YET to see you present the gospel to anyone, even on this board.

If you have, its been so buried in your eagerness to condemn someone who is delivering the message of Christ to 70,000 people tomorrow night that I can't even find it when I'm looking for it.

I don't know what Graham Campaigns you saw or heard about. I know the my personal experience certainly does NOT come anywhere CLOSE to what you say.

When we worked with his people they sent people in days in advance and stressed, over and over and over - pray. Before you send out a letter, pray. Before you answer a phone, pray. Before you talk to anyone, pray.

They stressed the importance of discernment in counselors. Wanting only counselors known to be born against Christians, wanting only counselors who believed that Christ was the one and only Lord and Savior.

They used what I call the Roman Road to teach the gospel of Christ.

They taught NOTHING but the gospel of Christ. They did not get into denominational wars. They didn't get into politics. They taught, "All sinned and come short of the glory of God. " "God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved, they taught that Jesus died, and in 3 days rose again." They taught that salvation was a personal committment to Christ, of your WHOLE life, and repentence of sin.

But - if you REALLY truly feel that Graham is guilty of the things you accuse him of, do what the bible says and go to him. OBVIOUSLY he isn't that hard to contact.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Amen, Sister computerjunkie -- Preach it!

I also visted a home of a respondee.
This was back in 1968. It was a movie
instead of a personal appearance.

Billy Graham is the most prolific evangelist
EVER. Billy Graham spoke before 210 MIllion
people -- the population of the whole
world in 65AD when Paul was writing his
books. Billy Graham is the best Christian
evangelist of the 2ed millinnium (1001-2000),
nay the Best CHristian evangelist EVER.

 

[TexasSky]

Computer Junkie,

Thank you for sharing the truth about the training.

I don't know if it is jealousy or what, but the attacks on Graham are so full of flat out lies I am amazed.

 

[computerjunkie]

Amen, Sister TexasSky and Brother Ed Edwards -- Preach it!

I am amazed that Baptists are so critical of an aging brother in Christ who has shared the gospel with more people than all of us combined will ever come in contact.

CJ

 

[Ed Edwards]

1 Samuel 24:6 (KJV1611 Edition)
David speaks of Saul:
And hee sayd vnto his men, The Lord forbid that I should doe this thing vnto my master the Lords Anoynted, to stretch forth mine hand against him, seeing he is the Anoynted of the Lord.

 

[Su Wei]

I'm with Pastor Larry. It's not how you start the race but how you end it.

 

[HeLives4me]

My niece has worked in BGEA for many years (about 12) and has loved working there. A man from our church in FL recently took a positon with BGEA. They contacted his (our) pastor, interviewed him about this mans faith, and how faithful he attended/ was involved in our church (Indep. Baptist), and were very thorough about the background and interview process. Since BGEA is managed by people, there will be mistakes, but they really try to do things right. I saw Billy's office in N.C. - very modest, he has not accumulated much compared to other "evangelists" yet has stayed true to the gospel. I attended college (1 yr) with Frank, and he, according to my niece, is more conservative than Billy. It will be interesting to follow his ministry.

VW

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
I think you need to do some research on this issue.

I'll see what I can dig up.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Billy's compromise with liberals of every stripe since 1950 is well documented. His easy-believism or Gospel sans repentance and a generic belief is weak at best (even demons believe; that just isn't enough). I personally could not support him or his work.

That said, 100 years from now he will be looked upon as the greatest BAPTIST of this era. Good, bad or ugly, he IS one of us. And deserves our prayers at least.

 

[Ben W]

I have many of his books and could not fault one of them, his book on the Holy Spirit is the best I have read on the topic of what it means to understand that the Holy Spirit is the equal third member of the Trinity.

 

[Ulsterman]

Do you agree then with this statement from that book ?

Addressing the baptism of the Spirit and the matter of assurance Graham says “’I’ve seen people in our crusades come forward more than once, and not experience the assurance of their salvation until the third or fourth time. When were they regenerated? Only God the Holy Spirit knows; it might have been at baptism or confirmation and they come forward for assurance.”

Presumably he includes in that remark those who were 'baptised' as babies thus giving credance to baptismal regeneration as taught by RCC and others.

 

[Ben W]

Presumably? I am not so sure he should be condemmed on what he may have said.

Baptism and confirmation both happen in many churches to teenagers.

The remarks say "It Might", not It did happen!

 

[Pastor Larry]

Pastor Larry -

For more years than I can remember all I have heard come out of Dr. Graham's lips is the true story of the salvation of Christ.

But remember what I and others have been pointing out ... It is not his preaching, as weak as his gospel is it that is disconcerting. It is his statements in various interviews dating back more than 30 years where he says that people might get to heaven without faith in Christ. That is not the "true story of salvation in Christ" no matter which way you cut it. And that failure to speak truth is compromise in the moment of battle.

I look at Dr. Graham and I see a man who looks at men who attacks him and, asks them to pray for him. I look at you, and I see ugliness and bitterness.

You need to look again then. I am neither ugly nor bitter. I love God and his word. I love the gospel. I love obedience. Out of my love for God and Scripture, and out of my desire to be obedient to everything God says, I am compelled to obey verses like Rom 16:17-18, and others, and to follow the pattern set by Paul in Gal 2 where he publicly confronted Peter for his compromise of the gospel. It is also amazing to me that in these discussions no one ever wants to talk about actual Scripture.

I have YET to see you present the gospel to anyone, even on this board.

Then you need to read more here, and come and visit. I have shared the gospel in this thread and others like it, pointing out that salvation is by Christ alone, and that those of "other faiths" do not have salvation. In another forum I have repeatedly shared the gospel that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. I have taken numerous cyber beatings from people because of my stance that churches that teach a works based salvation are not truly preaching the gospel.

If you have, its been so buried in your eagerness to condemn someone who is delivering the message of Christ to 70,000 people tomorrow night that I can't even find it when I'm looking for it.

I am not eager to condemn anyone. My heart grieves when I think of what Graham could have accomplished for hte cause of Christ had he stayed faithful. It breaks my heart to see someone with so much potential and integrity that is above reproach go down the road that he did when the people who were closest to him warned him not to.

I don't know what Graham Campaigns you saw or heard about. I know the my personal experience certainly does NOT come anywhere CLOSE to what you say.

I think this is a large part of the problem. I have seen Graham preach once or twice on TV. I have read his autobiography. But more importantly, I have seen the documented facts of the matter. Where you are operating on "personal experience" which is clouding your judgment, I am operating off of what has been documented over the years. I have no axe to grind. I am simply responding to what Graham has said and done over the years, comparing it to what God says we should be doing.

When we worked with his people they sent people in days in advance and stressed, over and over and over - pray. Before you send out a letter, pray. Before you answer a phone, pray. Before you talk to anyone, pray.

That's no different than any religion. The fact of prayer is common to all. The God to whom we pray is not. Furthemore, prayer does not offset the responsibility for obedience, and that is really where the issue is.

Wanting only counselors known to be born against Christians, wanting only counselors who believed that Christ was the one and only Lord and Savior.

This is manifestly not true, given their acceptance of counselors from the RCC over the years.

But - if you REALLY truly feel that Graham is guilty of the things you accuse him of, do what the bible says and go to him. OBVIOUSLY he isn't that hard to contact.

Graham has been confronted for more years than I have been alive by people he knows and respects. He has rejected it. He has made these statements and actions publicly, and part of our responsibility is to be biblical and warn others. The Bible does not require that each individual confront false teachers or disobedient brothers. It requires that someone do it. If this were a new issue, we could let it play out before speaking. But it isn't. Graham has made us choice. And now we must make ours. We must decide whose side we are on. All those who love God and his truth, and who love their neighbor, need to stand up and say that Graham did some good things, but he is disobedient and his gospel is now suspect. Let's not waffle in the face of political pressure.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by Ulsterman:
Addressing the baptism of the Spirit and the matter of assurance Graham says “’I’ve seen people in our crusades come forward more than once, and not experience the assurance of their salvation until the third or fourth time. When were they regenerated? Only God the Holy Spirit knows; it might have been at baptism or confirmation and they come forward for assurance.”

I agree with Graham. It might have been, but it might not have been.

 

[steveo]

Originally posted by TexasSky:
June 22, 2005


Dear *****,

Thank you for your email. It is good to hear from you.

We appreciate your interest and concern about the interview with Mr. Graham. Mr. Graham has faithfully and clearly preached the Gospel for over 50 years, and since the interview he has reaffirmed his belief in Christ as the only way of salvation: "In all our Crusades we place a prominent banner with Jesus' words, 'I am the Way, the Truth and the Life.' We put that verse there because people live in a confused world, with so many competing religious voices calling men and women to follow them. But Christ is distinctive and exclusive about the way to God. There can be no true Christianity apart from Him. While some of the ethics and idealism of other religions may run parallel to Christian teachings, the fact remains, as stated by Jesus Christ, 'No man cometh unto the Father but by me' (John 14:6, KJV).

"Over the years I have met people with many religious and philosophical views. Many of them have had deep commitment to their beliefs. But I have become even more convinced of the uniqueness and the truth of Christ and His Gospel. And I want to continue preaching it as long as possible."

We trust that you will pray that Mr. Graham will always correctly interpret God's Word and be sensitive to the Spirit's leading in every situation.

We appreciate your interest. May God bless you.

Sincerely,

********
Administrative Services Correspondent
Billy Graham Evangelistic Association

I got the same exact letter about 2 years ago when I questioned the Robert Schuller interview.
I received it as an email, but from what I remember it sounded identical.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
Graham has been confronted for more years than I have been alive by people he knows and respects. He has rejected it. He has made these statements and actions publicly, and part of our responsibility is to be biblical and warn others. The Bible does not require that each individual confront false teachers or disobedient brothers. It requires that someone do it. If this were a new issue, we could let it play out before speaking. But it isn't. Graham has made us choice. And now we must make ours. We must decide whose side we are on. All those who love God and his truth, and who love their neighbor, need to stand up and say that Graham did some good things, but he is disobedient and his gospel is now suspect. Let's not waffle in the face of political pressure.

The choice is to see things as us vs them or to see things as us vs us.

I think that many Baptists are also disobedient and their gospel is even more suspect than Graham's. Of course I believe those who fall under this to be a completely different group from the ones you think fall under this category. I guess the solution is for us to anathemize and separate from each other so that we are individual silos of faith, instead of working together as a community of believers and working out our disagreements in line with the words of Paul in Ephesians 4.

 

[Charles Meadows]

It would seem (I say this because I don't KNOW him personally) that Billy Graham has a great love for people and really wants people to be saved and feel the love of God.

To deny that Christ is the only way to heaven reflects serious theological problems - but we should not equate this with showing respect to nonChristians or preaching without fire and brimstone. I've read several of his books - and I have no reason to believe Billy consideres Jesus unecessary.

Jesus said he would leave His 99 sheep to search for the one which was lost. I doubt He meant that he would threaten that sheep until it was scared into returning. Billy (wisely) sees that showing love is the best witness. Telling a sinner he is a sinner may be true - but it's less likely to bring him back into fellowship with a God who still is offerring salvation (free!) to sinners.

Still, I cannot help but think of the times that the Pharisees grumbled about Jesus going to eat and fellowship with tax collecters. Jesus showed sinners love first.

 

[Pastor Larry]

The choice is to see things as us vs them or to see things as us vs us.

Not sure what this means exactly, but it sounds pious enough for me.

I think that many Baptists are also disobedient and their gospel is even more suspect than Graham's. Of course I believe those who fall under this to be a completely different group from the ones you think fall under this category.

I agree that many Baptists are disobedient and preach a weak gospel. I would treat them in the same way I have Graham, with loving exposure and confrontation based on Scripture alone, not on personal experience, likes and dislikes, or number of people reached. I am not sure what category you would put them under. The issue is not someone's denominational affiliation per se. It is whether or not they hold to and preach right doctrine and are obedient to God's word. That is all that matters.

I guess the solution is for us to anathemize and separate from each other so that we are individual silos of faith, instead of working together as a community of believers and working out our disagreements in line with the words of Paul in Ephesians 4.

I think we should work together, but if you read Eph 4 and the rest of the NT, you see that cooperation is based on unity of faith and obedience. Graham and I apparently do not believe the same thing, based on what he says. I think there is no hope for Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, or other religions unless they come to personal conscious faith in Jesus Christ. I believe that because God said it. Graham says they might have hope. I cannot fellowship or cooperate with someone who says that. We don't believe the same gospel. Furthermore, I am under strict orders from God to mark, expose, and separate from those who teach contrary to the doctrine that we have received. Once again, Graham is in that statement as one who has taught by word and life contrary to the doctrine we received. He has accepted sponsorship and cooperation from people he should have been correcting and separating from. He has taught that people might be saved without faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Pastor Larry]

It would seem (I say this because I don't KNOW him personally) that Billy Graham has a great love for people and really wants people to be saved and feel the love of God.

No doubt, but is that really the issue? I don't think so. Motives and desires are important, but so is obedience. Just as Uzzah ...

To deny that Christ is the only way to heaven reflects serious theological problems - but we should not equate this with showing respect to nonChristians or preaching without fire and brimstone. I've read several of his books - and I have no reason to believe Billy consideres Jesus unecessary.

But look at what he has said and failed to say over thirty years. He has, at the very least, sent mixed messages. But I believe he has done far more than that. No one is talking about "fire and brimstone" or not showing respect to other people. Don't confuse the issue.

Telling a sinner he is a sinner may be true - but it's less likely to bring him back into fellowship with a God who still is offerring salvation (free!) to sinners.

If you don't tell him he is a sinner, then why does he need to be saved? The most unloving thing you can do is fail to tell someone they are a sinner. If you don't tell him he is a sinner, he doesn't even know he is out of fellowship with God, or as least doesn't know why he is out of fellowship with God. And lastly, theologically, a sinner is not brought "back into fellowship" with God. He never had fellowship with God.

Still, I cannot help but think of the times that the Pharisees grumbled about Jesus going to eat and fellowship with tax collecters. Jesus showed sinners love first.

I am not suggesting anything differently. But Graham is not talking about eating and fellowship with tax collectors. What he has done is more on the line of fellowshipping with the Pharisees. If all Graham did was hang around with the sinners, I would have no problem. But he joined hands in cooperation with false teachers, thus giving credence to them and to their message. Can you imagine Christ having a Pharisee open in prayer at one of his sessions? Can you imagine Christ sending his disciples back to learn and grow at one of their synagogues? I can't ... becuase Scripture gives no example. There is not one iota of biblical evidence for the things that Graham has done in this regard. Let's not confuse it because he is a good man of personal integrity. Let's not get personalities and apparent successes in the way. Let's just look at the facts.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />The choice is to see things as us vs them or to see things as us vs us.

Not sure what this means exactly, but it sounds pious enough for me.</font>[/QUOTE]Pious? I don't see any piety there. More like trite philosophical hogwash.

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
I agree that many Baptists are disobedient and preach a weak gospel. I would treat them in the same way I have Graham, with loving exposure and confrontation based on Scripture alone, not on personal experience, likes and dislikes, or number of people reached. I am not sure what category you would put them under.

It is very likely that those you think are weak, I think are strong and that those you think are strong I think are weak. While I am supportive of loving confrontation and exposure, I also recognize that doing so means I must be open to receiving the same and being shown that I am wrong.

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
The issue is not someone's denominational affiliation per se. It is whether or not they hold to and preach right doctrine and are obedient to God's word. That is all that matters.

Right doctrine is important and we should all be striving for orthodoxy, sometimes by learning from those we think have wrong doctrine when in fact it is us who is wrong.

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
I think we should work together, but if you read Eph 4 and the rest of the NT, you see that cooperation is based on unity of faith and obedience.

This is a great passage to study more deeply. Grammatically, is Paul saying that working together is contingent on unity or is seeking unity contingent on working together?

NASB - Ephesians 4:1-6

Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
Graham and I apparently do not believe the same thing, based on what he says. I think there is no hope for Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, or other religions unless they come to personal conscious faith in Jesus Christ. I believe that because God said it. Graham says they might have hope. I cannot fellowship or cooperate with someone who says that.

So you must separate with anyone who agrees with you but with less certainty than what you have about that doctrine. I guess all of us should be as certain as Pastor Larry about everything Pastor Larry is certain about or else we are false prophets.

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
We don't believe the same gospel. Furthermore, I am under strict orders from God to mark, expose, and separate from those who teach contrary to the doctrine that we have received.

And also those who are less certain about the doctrines that are not contrary to that we have recieved.

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
Once again, Graham is in that statement as one who has taught by word and life contrary to the doctrine we received. He has accepted sponsorship and cooperation from people he should have been correcting and separating from. He has taught that people might be saved without faith in Jesus Christ.

Fortunately, Graham like someone else in the scriptures does not seek man's approval for who he should associate with.