Dr. Ruckman's "advanced Revelation"

[robycop3]

Lacy Evans: If an 82 year old preacher started talking about aliens and such, I would probably let him ramble out of respect for his age. I would be sure to do some damage control after he left.

I wouldn't give him that chance...I'd cut his microphone off and send him packing at once, to show the crowd that I simply do NOT tolerate heresy at all.

But he is right about the KJV.

In what points?


And he is an important enough figure in this debate to warrant some honest scrutiny.

It's quite easy to scrutinize him...all the fairy tales we've been discussing are FROM HIS OWN PEN! No rumors or innuendos here...just a discussion of HIS OWN STUFF.


I just happen to think your scrutiny (although absolutely correct in many respects) is very one sided.

We just let his works speak for themselves and compared them with the Bible.


I also think that there is a tendency to disregard the man's teachings altogether because of some screwball ideas he has.

How many false prophecies does one utter to become a false prophet? How many heresies does one teach to became a heretic and false teacher?

It seems to me like you're swatting at mosquitoes while you are lying in a sleeping bag full of rattlesnakes.

Actually, it's recognizing both a rattler and a skeeter when we see'em.

 

[James_Newman]

2Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

I'm (hopefully) not going to get into any more arguments like this, I repent of it. It is fruitless, and I usually end up saying things that I regret having said. I have been working on a study for a while that will hopefully give a beter idea at least why I believe that the Lord has seen fit to preserve His word in one translation in English, and I will post it when I am done. But pointless arguing is not profitable. I pray you will all forgive me if I said anything out of line.

 

[David J]

James that is part of being a Christian my brother. We forgive each other's faults etc....no hard feeling here at all

Talk with you later.

In Christ,
David

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by robycop3:
Jim...

As I said before, I tried to speak to Dr. Ruckman once, and his flunkies barred my way. I've sent him several letters and many emails over the years, and have received no response. Far as I'm concerned, the ball's in HIS court.

What else would you expect from a shaman?

 

[robycop3]

James Newman...

Nothing wrong with getting into a discussion that some may view as an argument. But I can see what believing the KJVO myth has gotten you...when we point out some of Dr. Ruckman's jive, you say we're attacking the KJV. THAT IS INCORRECT, to put it mildly. Believe me, Sir, I've been working against the KJVO myth for years now; I've been around the block a few times, and your equating the attack against the KJVO myth as an attack upon the KJV itself is in the realm of Fantasyland, and is a lame excuse made up by some KJVO author whose cash cow was threatened by the exposure of the falsehood of the KJVO myth in general. I don't know where you read that junk, but I suggest you investigate the veracity of the rest of the article.

Sorry if I all-but-called you a liar, but you DEFINITELY repeated a lie by saying our attacks upon the KJVO myth are attacks upon the KJV itself.

There's NOTHING to justify Dr. Ruckman's actions. KJVO aside, how many of you would support anyone else who teacher similar heresies?

Again, I started this thread because Dr. Ruckman is the main poster-boy of the more radical (and thus more incorrect) KJVOs.

What do you defenders of Dr. Ruckman have to say about his view that Eve had sex with the serpent, thus conceiving Cain? Who came up with that idiocy first...Dr. Ruckman or Arnold Murray(Shepherd's Chapel)?

And again, how many heresies must one teach to be a heretic? And how can you support a pastor who teaches what YOU KNOW is wrong, just because he teaches some right? Is it OK to pollute the Gospel?

 

[av1611jim]

Roby;
Let's try this and see if it fits. Remember this ;
Mt 7:2
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

I am willing to be judged by the same rule I give. Are you? Let's see.
Hitler did mostly RIGHT things, as does Robycop3. However, Robycop3's WRONGS are almost as nothing as compared to Hitler's wrongs. I just wanted to remind Robycop3's supporters that even Hitler was often right. Does that make him acceptable? Is Robycop3 acceptable because he's often right?

Does the shoe fit? I would not put myself in that paragraph. But by your apparent willingness to put a preacher of the gospel into it, then you evidently must be willing to be put in it as well. No? Again, how is it you even dare to compare an evil monster such as Hitler to a preacher of the gospel?
Quit it with your diatribe about "answer the OP". I did that already. This has gotten WAY PAST that. I am done. Say what you want. The NET is still free teritory.

In HIS service;
Jim

 

[robycop3]

You're right, Jim...As Americans, we have freedom of speech and the net is still a free medium. You have the right to be wrong, which you often exercise.

I will NEVER defend a preacher who spreads the garbage Dr. Ruckman does just because he preaches correct things most of the time. I used the Hitler analogy to remind the Ruckman defenders that even a monster like Hitler was right most of the time. Neither Hitler's nor Ruckman's good deeds counter their bad ones.

Am I perfect? of course not. However, I have never made a false prophecy(or any prophecy at all), never authored a fairy tale about the AC, and CERTAINLY have never twisted the Gospel with false addition, I.E. "Trib saints must WORK for their salvation".

Now, would YOU defend Dr. Ruckman if he weren't KJVO? I doubt it. The root of all this is the KJVO myth, isn't it? Many of its advocates will go so far as to defend an off-center "pastor" such as Dr. Ruckman in defense of the myth, at the cost of the truth.

"BEWARE THE LEAVEN OF THE KJVOS!"

 

[HankD]

Jim replies;
I am not the one with the apparent problem with Doc. Ruckman. You are. Since you have made this public denouncement of him, I have replied in public. I didn't start this. You fellers did, unscripturally I might add.

So, when I measure you with your own yardstick the rationalization starts.

In other words you believe the only proper way to correct a brother is privately and to his face (that is until you change the rules midstream, qualifying them as you go, particularly when they are applied to your own self).

I am not the one with the apparent problem with Doc. Ruckman. You are.

similarly you have an apparent problem with me.

Since you have made this public denouncement of him, I have replied in public.

OK, we have both made it public. I have denounced his error (but not him) publicly.

I didn't start this. You fellers did, unscripturally I might add.

So, according to your reasoning jim, two "wrongs" do indeed make a "right". However, If you mean the exposing and correcting of his errors, yes we did start it and we/I will continue to do so - Lord willing.

unscripturally I might add.

And what is your scripture for this your own action of a public rebuke?

KJV 1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.?

Whatever it is, please apply this Scripture that you have used to publicly rebuke me/us to Dr. Ruckman and his followers who have publicly called a Bible that millions of Christians use, myself included, a "satanic counterfeit" who have publicly used improper language and insults against a whole host of folks (individually as well as collectively) who he/they never met with privately or face-to-face.

HankD

 

[robycop3]

If I am rebuked for attacking false, unScriptural doctrines, so be it. I can rebuke right back with Scripture backing me up.

Can Dr. Ruckman defend any of his stuff with Scripture? Newp. Was the 'beast' John saw in the Revelation a 10-foot tall alien who landed a mile-wide starship on the Mount of Olives? Not according to John's description. And where-oh-where in the Bible does it say the trib saints must WORK for their salvation?

There's simply no valid excuse to defend him. I still say that if he weren't KJVO, that the KJVOs would be the first to attack him, citing his USE OF MODERN VERSIONS as the cause of his heresy.

 

[GeneMBridges]

If we use Jim' s logic on correction, then it is unScriptural to rebuke any other Christian for teaching heresy in any forum. I dare say if Dr. Ruckman was teaching baptismal regeneration, modalism, or a deficient Christology, Jim would sing a different song. "Ah, but those are issues addressed in the Bible," he will no doubt say. To which I reply, "And where is KJVOnlyism in the Bible?" QED.

The fact is Dr. Ruckman long, long, loooooonnnnnnngggggg ago went past the point of no return for requiring only private rebukes. He has been confronted privately by so many people on these issues and either refused to respond or responded in less than Christian ways (to say it lightly), that he should be rebuked publicly to expose his heresies to as many people as possible.

 

[HankD]

The ultimate problem IMO with "advanced revelation" (AR) is that after 20 centuries it has radically redefined the doctrine of inspiration and the Canon of Scripture.

This related to the fact that any given AR first of all has to be identified seeing that is is hidden from even those who were inspired to write it. This then requires an AR "prophet" who can subsequently interpret the AR which will presumably add to the body of doctrine of the Church. Two hundred have so far been revealed by one Seer. But how many are there? 400, 1000, 10,000 and what new and bizzare thing will come forth from them.

So far this doctrine is inextricably related to the King James Bible, with only one KJVO Seer promulgating "ex cathedra" interpretations.

HankD

 

[James_Newman]

I still would like to know what would happen to me if I believed what Ruckman teaches.

 

[Heart Talker]

Hello to: Roby, Jim, David, gb, Hank and everyone!
I hope y'all don't mind me posting a "note". I just stopped in and was reading over a few posts...and wanted to say that I found the posts interesting...enjoyed them. Thanks!...was nice to meet y'all here on the net!

Together...EXALTING HIM!
Heart Talker (Jerry)

 

[kjv34]

Hank the Bible gives instructions on Church Disapline if this is what your refering to it's in the book of Matt I believe
step 1 is to go to (him or her) 1st
step 2 is go to ( him or her) with someone from the Church
step 3 is then before the Church

has any of you went to Dr. Rukman with the charges you have made for the 1st step ( if not then there is no reason for this thread against Dr. Ruckman ) and I will assume none has.

 

[TC]

Ruckman has been confronted many times for his errors and he continues to rebel against correction. Since he goes around publicly teaching the things he does, we have an obligation to publicly challenge his false teachings. Paul publicly confronted Peter in front of others and did not give any indication that he met with Peter privately first.

 

[robycop3]

James Newman:I still would like to know what would happen to me if I believed what Ruckman teaches.

You should know. I believe you're asking a rhetorical question.

Much of what Ruckman teaches in the name of God is NOT what GOD teaches, so, with all due respect, go figure...

So lemme ask YOU...What is Dr. Ruckman's SCRIPTURAL basis for his teaching that Trib saints will hafta WORK for their salvation?

 

[HankD]

I still would like to know what would happen to me if I believed what Ruckman teaches.

You would be a ruckmanite.

HankD

 

[Slambo]

So lemme ask YOU...What is Dr. Ruckman's SCRIPTURAL basis for his teaching that Trib saints will hafta WORK for their salvation?

Revelation 12:17,14:12 would be a good place to start..Read II Timothy 2:15 for goodness sake(using God's true word:the KJV) and put it to use!

 

[HankD]

Revelation 12:17,14:12 would be a good place to start..Read II Timothy 2:15 for goodness sake(using God's true word:the KJV) and put it to use!

KJV Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

KJV Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

These Scriptures from the book of the Revelation show us what the saints/seed of the woman do and the object of their faith, not how they came to be saints.

KJV 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Good advice from the Word of God, Go, and do thou likewise.

HankD

 

[Ed Edwards]

II.Timothie II.15 (KJV1611):

Therefore, brethren, stand fast and keepe
the instructions, which ye haue bene
taught, either by worde, or by our Epistle.

Oops, that was II.Thessalonians II.15 -- abbrev. problems

II.Timothie II.15 (KJV1611):

Studie to shewe thy selfe approued
vnto God, a workeman that needeth not
to be ashamed, diuiding the worde
of trueth aright.

Compare the meaning of the statement with:
2 Timothy 2:15 (HCSB)

Be diligent to present yourself approved
to God, a worker who doesn't need
to be ashamed, correctly teaching
the word of truth.

Anyway, as far as Ruckman goes, you are
supposed to "divide" the word not the people.