Dress code in church

[Dr. Bob]

Thanks to the hotel where our church meets we have two kinds of hot coffee, cocoa, tea, cider and ice water. Can't think of times when EVERYONE was not drinking!!

The church meets. Where it meets might require some sort of regs about food and beverage, but no church should say people who are thirsty cannot drink. Amazing.

And for JDF, I am regenerated.

 

[Skandelon]

Just wondering about this statement....where do you get the idea that "God does not look on the outward things of a believer but ONLY looks at our hearts"....can you please share what scripture says this, or how you have arrived at this conclusion biblically????

I wasn't making that statement as an all inclusive doctrinal point, just a general reminder that God cares more about what is on the inside. I realize there are biblical standards and acceptable social norms. I wasn't meaning to dismiss those things, just drawing a distinction between church that might choose to be more casual verse business attire. I hope that makes more sense.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

And for JDF, I am regenerated.

I wear size 12 1/2 shoes.

 

[Amy.G]

I have never read anything in the Bible that says what type attire should be worn to "church", only that one be modest. In OT times under the Law they were to bath and wash their clothes, but not it did not state what type of clothes or that they should be different from everyday attire. Suit and ties, dresses only, are modern day man made rules.

 

[Skandelon]

I wear size 12 1/2 shoes.

And with all due respect brother, you may need to use them to take a walk and cool off. You're posts are very inflammatory and it is against the rules to question other brethren's salvation.

I advise you to edit your own post before a moderator has to do it and gives you yet another infraction.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

And with all due respect brother, you may need to use them to take a walk and cool off. You're posts are very inflammatory and it is against the rules to question other brethren's salvation.

First of all, I never questioned anybody's salvation, but it doesn't surprise me at all that you would falsely claim that I did.

Second, so what if it's against the rules? You don't enforce the rules when someone attacks me. So what do the rules matter?

Annsi called me a liar and nothing happened to he. Jerome then agreed with her and repeated her attack. Nothing happened to him. Clearly, you're selective about what rules you enforce based on who does it and who it's done to.

I advise you to edit your own post before a moderator has to do it and gives you yet another infraction.

And if you were to give me an infraction for an offense that you made up, while refusing to address the attacks against me, then that would just prove what hypocrites you are. In fact, not only do you refuse to address the attacks against me, a PM I received from dcorbett even admitted that she refused to address any attacks against me, specifically.

So don't lecture me about the rules when you're not willing to follow them, yourselves.

Why don't you show us where I ever questioned anyone's salvation or broke any rule in this forum? In fact, not only did I not question his salvation, but I even stated that I was basing my statement on the assumption that he is a Christian. But that's OK. You go right on ahead and ignore that part.

Out of curiousity, do you ever have anything positive or friendly to say to me, or can you only attack me?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I have never read anything in the Bible that says what type attire should be worn to "church", only that one be modest.

...and reverent.

 

[Jerome]

Exodus 3:

God called to him out of the bush, "Moses, Moses!" And he said, "Here I am." Then he said, "Do not come near; take your sandals off your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground."

Moses went barefoot? No!! Surely he slipped on a pair of sanctuary-appropriate size 12.5 wingtips, amen.

 

[DHK]

I have a glass of ice water on the stage by the chair where I sit. Sometimes, in the middle of a sermon I'll go take a sip. It refreshes my voice especially when I've been taking an antihistamine which tends to dry out the vocal cords. I guess in some folks eyes I'm violating some cardinal rule from their Pharisee's Code Book of Sanctuary Behavior for the Pastor. Seems I missed that rule somewhere in my study of the Bible. I wonder why? Perhaps, because it isn't there.

That's always been proper etiquette for the preacher to have a glass of water by the pulpit, for his throat gets dry from preaching and he often needs it (especially if he's preaching an hour long ).

Folks, I didn't mean to cause contention with my post. But it is a matter of culture these day, and to some degree discipline. Since I was saved over 40 years ago I have been associated with primarily one church. In my younger days there was absolutely no food and drink in the auditorium. It was unheard of. It was the responsibility of the parents to keep their children from running around. All things were done decently and in order. Once the service started one was expected to remain seated and not to be up and down distracting both the preacher and the others from hearing the message. It would create more of an air of reverence in the "house of God."

Now, in this generation, things have changed. Though the building is the same the people are not. Young people pick up their coffee at their favorite drive-thru just before coming to church. Some have tea, and some just water. Most have something. That gives the place more of an informal setting. More people get up and down as well. The dress has also been more casual.

Perhaps it is a matter of the heart. Is this generation taking a more casual approach to God? Are they not willing to sacrifice or discipline themselves as former generations did? Is our approach to worshiping a holy, omnipotent Creator, reflected in the small things we do, and an informal I-don't-care attitude, that permeates a humanistic self-centered society, that has so infiltrated our schools and institutions, that we cannot escape it, even in our churches?

 

[annsni]

Thanks to the hotel where our church meets we have two kinds of hot coffee, cocoa, tea, cider and ice water. Can't think of times when EVERYONE was not drinking!!

The church meets. Where it meets might require some sort of regs about food and beverage, but no church should say people who are thirsty cannot drink. Amazing.

And for JDF, I am regenerated.

We used to have decaf and regular coffee and hot water but the hotel charges $55 per carafe (it's a big 50 cupper) so we now just have regular coffee. It's nice to have the selection but it's just too much money!! Oh - and ice water is always provided for the rental of a meeting room.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

That's always been proper etiquette for the preacher to have a glass of water by the pulpit, for his throat gets dry from preaching and he often needs it (especially if he's preaching an hour long ).

Folks, I didn't mean to cause contention with my post. But it is a matter of culture these day, and to some degree discipline. Since I was saved over 40 years ago I have been associated with primarily one church. In my younger days there was absolutely no food and drink in the auditorium. It was unheard of. It was the responsibility of the parents to keep their children from running around. All things were done decently and in order. Once the service started one was expected to remain seated and not to be up and down distracting both the preacher and the others from hearing the message. It would create more of an air of reverence in the "house of God."

Now, in this generation, things have changed. Though the building is the same the people are not. Young people pick up their coffee at their favorite drive-thru just before coming to church. Some have tea, and some just water. Most have something. That gives the place more of an informal setting. More people get up and down as well. The dress has also been more casual.

Perhaps it is a matter of the heart. Is this generation taking a more casual approach to God? Are they not willing to sacrifice or discipline themselves as former generations did? Is our approach to worshiping a holy, omnipotent Creator, reflected in the small things we do, and an informal I-don't-care attitude, that permeates a humanistic self-centered society, that has so infiltrated our schools and institutions, that we cannot escape it, even in our churches?

Thank you for this. It's good to know there's some sanity left here.

 

[annsni]

First of all, I never questioned anybody's salvation, but it doesn't surprise me at all that you would falsely claim that I did.

Second, so what if it's against the rules? You don't enforce the rules when someone attacks me. So what do the rules matter?

Annsi called me a liar and nothing happened to he. Jerome then agreed with her and repeated her attack. Nothing happened to him. Clearly, you're selective about what rules you enforce based on who does it and who it's done to.

My post was edited and I apologized. I fully expect to hear from the powers that be after the issue is reviewed and I will abide by whatever consequences there are. You, however, continue to post inflammatory, untrue, unChristian things and do not apologize ever. Why is that?

And if you were to give me an infraction for an offense that you made up, while refusing to address the attacks against me, then that would just prove what hypocrites you are. In fact, not only do you refuse to address the attacks against me, a PM I received from dcorbett even admitted that she refused to address any attacks against me, specifically.

So don't lecture me about the rules when you're not willing to follow them, yourselves.

Why don't you show us where I ever questioned anyone's salvation or broke any rule in this forum? In fact, not only did I not question his salvation, but I even stated that I was basing my statement on the assumption that he is a Christian. But that's OK. You go right on ahead and ignore that part.

Out of curiousity, do you ever have anything positive or friendly to say to me, or can you only attack me?

JDF - You have clearly stated that I am not saved. However, you act the victim here when you have never said one kind word to anyone that I've ever seen. You continually come in here with guns blazing and expect to be shown friendship? Why would anyone want to be friendly with a bear?

 

[Skandelon]

First of all, I never questioned anybody's salvation, but it doesn't surprise me at all that you would falsely claim that I did.

It appeared that way to several members as it does to me when I read it. How else is someone supposed to take it when you say, "Your statement is a clear indication of a rebellious spirit... isn't consistent with a heart that's been regenerated by the Holy Spirit."

And how is not inflammatory to paint us all with the same brush with statements such as, "I realize this is BaptistBoard, which has adopted the Church-of-do-What-You-Want-To" and "My guess is that, like the vast, vast majority of people here on BaptistBoard, you've never read it [scripture]."

Second, so what if it's against the rules?

Isn't that the very rebellious attitude you were attempting to correct in that post?

You don't enforce the rules when someone attacks me. So what do the rules matter?

One, I don't moderate this particular forum. Two, did you report the posts that you felt were in violation of the rules? Three, as my mom always said, two wrongs don't make a right. Just because someone insults you doesn't give you permission to insult them. You are responsible for your behavior.

So don't lecture me about the rules when you're not willing to follow them, yourselves.

Wow, seems as if I've uncovered a wound. I have nothing to do with the other interactions you have had with other moderators. To treat us all with such distain and disrespect could be the root of the problem you are experiencing. If someone is having a problem with everyone, it may be the "someone" who needs to change.

Out of curiousity, do you ever have anything positive or friendly to say to me, or can you only attack me?

I like John Deere too, does that help? And I thought our comments about Simon and Corky were in friendly jest, I guess they weren't?

I have nothing against you brother, but clearly there is a chip on someones shoulder that has been waiting to get knocked off. Maybe you should take a break for a while and come back later to start fresh?

 

[annsni]

That's always been proper etiquette for the preacher to have a glass of water by the pulpit, for his throat gets dry from preaching and he often needs it (especially if he's preaching an hour long ).

Folks, I didn't mean to cause contention with my post. But it is a matter of culture these day, and to some degree discipline. Since I was saved over 40 years ago I have been associated with primarily one church. In my younger days there was absolutely no food and drink in the auditorium. It was unheard of. It was the responsibility of the parents to keep their children from running around. All things were done decently and in order. Once the service started one was expected to remain seated and not to be up and down distracting both the preacher and the others from hearing the message. It would create more of an air of reverence in the "house of God."

Now, in this generation, things have changed. Though the building is the same the people are not. Young people pick up their coffee at their favorite drive-thru just before coming to church. Some have tea, and some just water. Most have something. That gives the place more of an informal setting. More people get up and down as well. The dress has also been more casual.

Perhaps it is a matter of the heart. Is this generation taking a more casual approach to God? Are they not willing to sacrifice or discipline themselves as former generations did? Is our approach to worshiping a holy, omnipotent Creator, reflected in the small things we do, and an informal I-don't-care attitude, that permeates a humanistic self-centered society, that has so infiltrated our schools and institutions, that we cannot escape it, even in our churches?

I do believe that meeting with the Creator of the universe is a wonderful thing and we should not go about it as if we're doing just anything but I don't think we need to have "high church" kind of thing - something so formal that it is all about the rules rather than the heart. I'd rather see someone come into church in shorts and sandals with a cup of Starbucks but with a heart to serve, a mind focused on God and undivided attention than to have someone in there who's a pew warmer in a suit.

The culture has certainly changed and we can see that in so many ways. However, I don't think it's all bad. I grew up with a view of God that was close yet reverent. I still to this day pray as if I'm praying to the King - who's lap I can crawl into a cry. That's what I want to convey to those who come to our church - that God is holy and just and loves us dearly. God doesn't turn us away for a cup of coffee. Should we?

Now, that said, at our home church and other campus, only water is allowed in the sanctuary for practical purposes. Of course baby bottles would be a different story but otherwise, we're concerned about stains. However, we meet in a hotel where we often have to set up our chairs around a left-over dance floor or with tables set up next to us because there is another even immediately following the service, and it IS a ballroom where the kitchen is right through one doorway and so a cup of coffee is not the end of the world.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

It appeared that way to several members as it does to me when I read it. How else is someone supposed to take it when you say, "Your statement is a clear indication of a rebellious spirit... isn't consistent with a heart that's been regenerated by the Holy Spirit."

Personally, I would take it as "you're doing something wrong and you need to address it". But then, I can read so that's just me.

And how is not inflammatory to paint us all with the same brush with statements such as, "I realize this is BaptistBoard, which has adopted the Church-of-do-What-You-Want-To" and "My guess is that, like the vast, vast majority of people here on BaptistBoard, you've never read it [scripture]."

How is it not inflamitory for dcorbett to call me a "little gnat" or annsi to call me a liar?

Isn't that the very rebellious attitude you were attempting to correct in that post?

Nope.

One, I don't moderate this particular forum. Two, did you report the posts that you felt were in violation of the rules?

At least a dozen times.

Three, as my mom always said, two wrongs don't make a right. Just because someone insults you doesn't give you permission to insult them. You are responsible for your behavior.

Just as I never questioned sag's salvation, I never insulted them.

To treat us all with such distain and disrespect could be the root of the problem you are experiencing. If someone is having a problem with everyone, it may be the "someone" who needs to change.

OK. What should I change to get the molderators to enforce violations of the rules against me?

I like John Deere too, does that help? And I thought our comments about Simon and Corky were in friendly jest, I guess they weren't?

Really? That's your idea of jesting, huh?

I have nothing against you brother, but clearly there is a chip on someones shoulder that has been waiting to get knocked off.

Gee, threatening me through a computer screen. That's real manhood, right there.

Maybe you should take a break for a while and come back later to start fresh?

What guarantee do I have that your attitudes will change if I take a break? Let me ask you this: when was the last time I responded to or said anything at all to annsi? It's been quite a while because she's on my ignore list, where she belongs. And yet, she continues to address me and to make snide comments about me in spite of the fact that I don't say anything at all to her or about her. So please explain how that's my fault.


Remember, you are the one who called me names unprovoked.

 

[Skandelon]

...and reverent.

This is the point. How you see and define "reverent" may be different for someone else. You may see "reverent" as being quite, sitting in a pew, wearing business attire.

I see "reverent" as an attitude of ones heart, regardless of the outward appearance. David danced naked...the publican dropped to his knees and beat his chest...the blind beggar cried for mercy... These are all examples of reverence toward God in my view.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I see "reverent" as an attitude of ones heart, regardless of the outward appearance. David danced naked

This being BaptistBoard, I'm sure this will come as quite a shock, but David's dancing naked wasn't in the context of a church service.

 

[annsni]

annsi to call me a liar?

I do think I am on ignore but I challenged you to support your accusations and you've never done so.

 

[Skandelon]

Personally, I would take it as "you're doing something wrong and you need to address it". But then, I can read so that's just me.

See, you are insulting me by implying that I can't read. I think you are doing it and not even realizing it. You don't have to insult people in order to carry on a conversation brother.

How is it not inflamitory for dcorbett to call me a "little gnat" or annsi to call me a liar?

I agree, that does sound inflammatory. But, this isn't about them, its about you.

Report their posts and let the mods handle them, you are responsible for you. It sounds like Annsi already tried to correct her mistake, but now it is your turn.

Just as I never questioned sag's salvation, I never insulted them.

You don't think it is insulting to say that most of the BB members never read scripture? Come now, let's be reasonable.

OK. What should I change to get the molderators to enforce violations of the rules against me?

Report them. And don't retaliate by making even more inflammatory remarks than what they said.

Really? That's your idea of jesting, huh?

I thought it was funny. Corky and Simon playing basketball, that is funny! :laugh:

Gee, threatening me through a computer screen. That's real manhood, right there.

Threatening? What are you talking about? The phrase "chip on your shoulder" simply means you seem easily angered, which is quite evident by your response to me.

What guarantee do I have that your attitudes will change if I take a break?

First, I'm not the one getting dozens of reports for breaking the rules. Second, you are only responsible for your attitude, no one else.

Remember, you are the one who called me names unprovoked.

You critiqued a worship leader for being off key in a kind of rude way. To compared you to Simon Cowell was a joke, which is why I put the laughing guy beside it. I'm sorry if that was offense to you. I think most understood it was a joke.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

See, you are insulting me by implying that I can't read. I think you are doing it and not even realizing it. You don't have to insult people in order to carry on a conversation brother.

And yet, you felt the need to do just that.

I agree, that does sound inflammatory. But, this isn't about them, its about you.

Precisely my point.

Report their posts and let the mods handle them, you are responsible for you.

I've reported them a dozen times.

It sounds like Annsi already tried to correct her mistake, but now it is your turn.

And in that very thread, I stated at least three times that if anyone there could show me where I ever did what annsi and her little clique claimed I did, that I would be more than happy to apologize. Not one of them could come up with any examples to show that I ever said what they claimed I did.

You don't think it is insulting to say that most of the BB members never read scripture?

Just an observation.

Report them.

I did. Numerous times. You refused to do anything about it.

I thought it was funny. Corky and Simon playing basketball, that is funny! :laugh:

Then you shouldn't have any problem with me comparing you to Corky.

Threatening? What are you talking about?

Threatening to knock a chip off someone's shoulder is a considered to be a threat.

First, I'm not the one getting dozens of reports for breaking the rules.

No, you're just the one ignoring all of my reports.

Second, when I asked you to show where I did what you claimed I did, you could not.

You critiqued a worship leader for being off key in a kind of rude way.

No, actually, I never critiqued her for being off key. I merely said that, while it was a nice performance (and just like you ignored the part where I stated that I was basing my statement about sag on the assumption that he is saved, so you completely ignored the part where I said- TWICE - that her performance wasn't a bad performance), that it was not consistent with the definition of "leading worship".

I was speaking of the attitude, not the location.

And I was pointing out that the context was completely different.

I'm recommending you to be banned from the site for at least 10 days because of the many reports and because of the attitude to which you have addressed me here. I hope things are better in the future. I wish you all the best.

I hope things are better in the future, too. But I believe that when I come back, I will still be subject to your personal attacks and that the moderators will still refuse to do anything about it.
By the way, I'm still waiting for you to explain your claim that annsi's insults are my fault.