Blessedwife318, you catch on quickly!
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Dungeons and Dragons
- Thread starter evangelist6589
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Blessedwife318, you catch on quickly!
I have come to the conclusion that the fastest way to get the majority of your youth group kids to read, or play, or listen to something is to rant about how evil it is without any Biblical Support and telling stories about how bad it is so that they will know how bad it is. I've lost count of how many people I know that read Harry Potter because they were told over and over again how bad it was and to stay away that they just had to see for themselves it is was really that bad.
“I condemn false prophets, I condemn the effort to take away the power of rational decision, to drain people of their free will – and a ----- of a lot of money in the bargain. Religions vary in their decree of idiocy, but I reject them all. For most people, religion is nothing more than a substitute for a malfunctioning brain.” (Gene Roddenberry)
The original Star Trek was not, I believe, "anti-religious," but what they present is a future largely void of God. As it progressed the newer series was often very spiritual (in a universal way). I liked all of the series anyway. But then again, I have no issue with Ghost Busters (although I am surprised it was the supposed occult themes rather than the sexual situations that raised the alarm for you...key master :smilewinkgrin
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You are probably right. I recently watched the Harry Potter movies for that reason (well, I knew arguments from the past but my son was into Veggie Tales and The Wiggles back then, so I wasn't interested). Personally I liked the movies (and was surprised to read the interview with Rowling. She insists that she intended the movies to allegorize Christianity much like Tolkien's trilogy). I do see why many object to the books, although I don't.
SERIOUSLY?!? We're talking about your inability to properly discern worldly entertainment. YOU'RE the only one bringing up calvinist agendas. Stop derailing your own thread!
Yeesh. It's like the old pioneer days. There's an injun behind every bush....
You provided a key premise of the book; I provided evidence that refuted that premise. Provide me excerpts from the book that say differently.
Called it.
But CPT Kirk was a Calvinist....or was it a Canadian? :laugh:.
Don, you are not being harsh.
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“I condemn false prophets, I condemn the effort to take away the power of rational decision, to drain people of their free will – and a ----- of a lot of money in the bargain. Religions vary in their decree of idiocy, but I reject them all. For most people, religion is nothing more than a substitute for a malfunctioning brain.” (Gene Roddenberry)
The original Star Trek was not, I believe, "anti-religious," but what they present is a future largely void of God. As it progressed the newer series was often very spiritual (in a universal way). I liked all of the series anyway. But then again, I have no issue with Ghost Busters (although I am surprised it was the supposed occult themes rather than the sexual situations that raised the alarm for you...key master :smilewinkgrin
As I said I don't watch anything past the 60's so your arguments need to come from that series. If they do not and you use Newer series, and movies the argument is not valid. The same argument is applied to the Twilight Zone. I dont watch the 1980's, nor the later Twilight Zone series. Even the radio drama I stopped buying episodes.
Looking at pages 80-81 in Invasion of other gods David Jeremiah says.
He mentions convicted killer Sean Sellers (murdered his parents) whom was fueled by the game that led him into Satan worship and the Occult. David also mentions another kid named Jeffrey whom had no psychological nor other problems and was by all appearances normal. But one day he decided to shoot himself in the head. Guess what? He got obsessed with D&D.
This game is a fantasy role playing game in which players use their imaginations to assume the role of a game character and games can take days, weeks, or even months to complete. Such games that involve devils and the occult are to be avoided at all costs as they are involved with the New Spirituality.
In another Lutzer book Who are you to Judge? he also makes another warning about the danger of D&D. This book is from 2003 so a more recent warning.
Fantasy is the bridge that leads to the other side of the spiritual world and I am so saddened by the great number of deceived in this thread whom think that watching a Star Trek or a Twilight Zone episode from the 1960's is the same as involving oneself in the New Spirituality and the Occult. I would say that people need DISCERNMENT and they need to understand SEPARATION. Read these verses on the occult.
Lutzer goes on to explains doorways to the occult and repeats some of the same material from his 1989 book and warns against the same things what Jeremiah also said in his own book on the topic. People I plead with you to not let the occult and the New Spirituality deceive you! It appears many here have been deceived and so think that watching a 1960's TV show which involves no fantasy role playing is the same as fantasy games are clearly deceived. Satan is the master deceived and a master evangelist (according to Erwin Lutzer).
My suggestions for you.
1. READ YOUR BIBLE
2. Be in prayer about this
3. Seek advice. Read books on the topic. I have mentioned a few.
Satan's Evangelistic strategy for this New Age
Who are you to judge?
Invasion of other gods
I am sorry but I am gonna have to separate from this thread due to the nature and the deception of the occult that so many here think is okay. Unless someone wants help I won't be here. I thought most would agree about the dangers of the occult in D&D but sadly this is not the case. I am sad to say that even someone like WinMan had more maturity than this. I cannot associate with people that think D&D and the occult is okay.
He mentions convicted killer Sean Sellers (murdered his parents) whom was fueled by the game that led him into Satan worship and the Occult. David also mentions another kid named Jeffrey whom had no psychological nor other problems and was by all appearances normal. But one day he decided to shoot himself in the head. Guess what? He got obsessed with D&D.
This game is a fantasy role playing game in which players use their imaginations to assume the role of a game character and games can take days, weeks, or even months to complete. Such games that involve devils and the occult are to be avoided at all costs as they are involved with the New Spirituality.
In another Lutzer book Who are you to Judge? he also makes another warning about the danger of D&D. This book is from 2003 so a more recent warning.
Fantasy is the bridge that leads to the other side of the spiritual world and I am so saddened by the great number of deceived in this thread whom think that watching a Star Trek or a Twilight Zone episode from the 1960's is the same as involving oneself in the New Spirituality and the Occult. I would say that people need DISCERNMENT and they need to understand SEPARATION. Read these verses on the occult.
Lutzer goes on to explains doorways to the occult and repeats some of the same material from his 1989 book and warns against the same things what Jeremiah also said in his own book on the topic. People I plead with you to not let the occult and the New Spirituality deceive you! It appears many here have been deceived and so think that watching a 1960's TV show which involves no fantasy role playing is the same as fantasy games are clearly deceived. Satan is the master deceived and a master evangelist (according to Erwin Lutzer).
My suggestions for you.
1. READ YOUR BIBLE
2. Be in prayer about this
3. Seek advice. Read books on the topic. I have mentioned a few.
Satan's Evangelistic strategy for this New Age
Who are you to judge?
Invasion of other gods
I am sorry but I am gonna have to separate from this thread due to the nature and the deception of the occult that so many here think is okay. Unless someone wants help I won't be here. I thought most would agree about the dangers of the occult in D&D but sadly this is not the case. I am sad to say that even someone like WinMan had more maturity than this. I cannot associate with people that think D&D and the occult is okay.
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John. My comments are about the original as well . Please take more time reading posts.
Just like to point out that no one said anything like this. It was said that you call someone else's game sinful while in your leisure time you watch TV shows that have questionable values.
Please take more time reading posts.
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evenifigoalone
Well-Known Member
apologies for the lengthy post--I have a lot to say
Not gonna lie. I watch and play stuff some others may have problems with.
-I'm an anime geek, one of my favorite series is called Blue Excorcist, in which the main characters are half demon. Anime often contains supernatural themes, and since it comes from a pagan country, these themes are rarely in sync with Christianity. They like to mix things together sometimes, too, including elements from Christianity.
-I plan to read Harry Potter, after having heard from Christians who read it. (Some of them people I greatly respect.) I've also heard from Christians who used to be into the occult, and say Harry Potter isn't anything like it.
-I play Pokemon, after having grown up in a family where Pokemon was considered demonic.
I know all the objections. I just know not to take fiction seriously. To me, mythology isn't a big deal. I grew up reading Greek mythology in literature class, but I don't worship the Greek gods. (C.S. Lewis actually used elements from Greek mythology in his Narnia series.) So, I think you can find spiritual mythology interesting without taking it seriously.
But I do my best to respect others's convictions and reservations. Though I have a hard time stomaching people thinking things like Pokemon are demonic...that, TO ME, borders on ridiculous and paranoid. Still, if that is your conviction I must respect it.
I've been a geek for *some* kind of fictional media my entire life, both before and after dedicating my life to Christ. (I've been saved since I was a child, but rededicated at 16.) I am careful of moral content, and I know how to discern spiritual content. (Though simply containing something I don't approve of isn't automatic grounds for dismissal in my book.) But the biggest danger has been making my entertainment an idol. I've had to repent for that more than once.
I think the whole occult accusation is overused and often illfounded (at least when I have seen it used)...and if your resource is Jack Chick or someone like him who relies on sensationalism and unfounded claims, I will not take you seriously.
An example from my experience:
A couple years ago I got into a series called Fullmetal Alchemist. I ended up pulling my little brother into it, and my mom didn't like that. (I respect her authority over my brother since he's still a minor and apologized for getting him into something she didn't approve of, so please don't get the wrong idea.) She pulled up an article on "occult references" in media...to be perfectly frank, I could not take this list seriously. It listed things like ghosts, black cats (it slammed Sailor Moon for having a black cat character). I didn't make it past two or three pages before putting it down.
However, before I put it down, I saw that one thing it listed was alchemy, and it showed an alchemy symbol.
Now, I have no idea if alchemy was actually occult or not. (To my understanding it was simply a failed science that led to the discovery of chemistry.)
When people assume that the media is trying to make you go occult just for having spiritual mythology (and alchemy isn't even that) present in it, that bothers me. Fiction was made to explore that which does not exist in reality, after all. I think it's more likely that the author found the idea of a world with a developed science of alchemy an interesting thing to base her story on, rather than them presenting occult practices to the world. Y'know? (And that's assuming that the claim of it having occult connections is in any fashion accurate.)
Neither do I take stories like "this person did this after reading this" seriously--that's what they used to say as "proof" that rock music was demonic when I was a kid. They still do it, too. And I know that's false.
The way these stories, sourced or not, are used is based off a logical fallacy (post hoc ergo propter hoc), for one thing. And I simply don't know the whole story, even if it was reported on the news. Plus, there is such a thing as mental health disorders that make it hard for people to distinguish fiction from reality--schizophrenia. Or it may simply be blame shifting by someone who doesn't want to take full responsibility for their actions. I wouldn't assume it's demon possession.
Especially when I know people who do watch/play/read that something and who are perfectly fine. And especially if those people are strong Christians. Or if I watch it myself and have no troubles with it.
The thing is, I've found that sources that are biased against something are horrible for learning about the content of it, since they put everything in as bad a light as possible and often actually take things way way way out of context.
I'm not saying that no media exists with which you shouldn't at the very least be careful about--that's not what I'm saying. But having grown up with some pretty extreme views against media and having left that behind, I do wish my brothers and sisters in Christ wouldn't be quite so quick to write things off.
Not gonna lie. I watch and play stuff some others may have problems with.
-I'm an anime geek, one of my favorite series is called Blue Excorcist, in which the main characters are half demon. Anime often contains supernatural themes, and since it comes from a pagan country, these themes are rarely in sync with Christianity. They like to mix things together sometimes, too, including elements from Christianity.
-I plan to read Harry Potter, after having heard from Christians who read it. (Some of them people I greatly respect.) I've also heard from Christians who used to be into the occult, and say Harry Potter isn't anything like it.
-I play Pokemon, after having grown up in a family where Pokemon was considered demonic.
I know all the objections. I just know not to take fiction seriously. To me, mythology isn't a big deal. I grew up reading Greek mythology in literature class, but I don't worship the Greek gods. (C.S. Lewis actually used elements from Greek mythology in his Narnia series.) So, I think you can find spiritual mythology interesting without taking it seriously.
But I do my best to respect others's convictions and reservations. Though I have a hard time stomaching people thinking things like Pokemon are demonic...that, TO ME, borders on ridiculous and paranoid. Still, if that is your conviction I must respect it.
I've been a geek for *some* kind of fictional media my entire life, both before and after dedicating my life to Christ. (I've been saved since I was a child, but rededicated at 16.) I am careful of moral content, and I know how to discern spiritual content. (Though simply containing something I don't approve of isn't automatic grounds for dismissal in my book.) But the biggest danger has been making my entertainment an idol. I've had to repent for that more than once.
I think the whole occult accusation is overused and often illfounded (at least when I have seen it used)...and if your resource is Jack Chick or someone like him who relies on sensationalism and unfounded claims, I will not take you seriously.
An example from my experience:
A couple years ago I got into a series called Fullmetal Alchemist. I ended up pulling my little brother into it, and my mom didn't like that. (I respect her authority over my brother since he's still a minor and apologized for getting him into something she didn't approve of, so please don't get the wrong idea.) She pulled up an article on "occult references" in media...to be perfectly frank, I could not take this list seriously. It listed things like ghosts, black cats (it slammed Sailor Moon for having a black cat character). I didn't make it past two or three pages before putting it down.
However, before I put it down, I saw that one thing it listed was alchemy, and it showed an alchemy symbol.
Now, I have no idea if alchemy was actually occult or not. (To my understanding it was simply a failed science that led to the discovery of chemistry.)
When people assume that the media is trying to make you go occult just for having spiritual mythology (and alchemy isn't even that) present in it, that bothers me. Fiction was made to explore that which does not exist in reality, after all. I think it's more likely that the author found the idea of a world with a developed science of alchemy an interesting thing to base her story on, rather than them presenting occult practices to the world. Y'know? (And that's assuming that the claim of it having occult connections is in any fashion accurate.)
Neither do I take stories like "this person did this after reading this" seriously--that's what they used to say as "proof" that rock music was demonic when I was a kid. They still do it, too. And I know that's false.
The way these stories, sourced or not, are used is based off a logical fallacy (post hoc ergo propter hoc), for one thing. And I simply don't know the whole story, even if it was reported on the news. Plus, there is such a thing as mental health disorders that make it hard for people to distinguish fiction from reality--schizophrenia. Or it may simply be blame shifting by someone who doesn't want to take full responsibility for their actions. I wouldn't assume it's demon possession.
Especially when I know people who do watch/play/read that something and who are perfectly fine. And especially if those people are strong Christians. Or if I watch it myself and have no troubles with it.
The thing is, I've found that sources that are biased against something are horrible for learning about the content of it, since they put everything in as bad a light as possible and often actually take things way way way out of context.
I'm not saying that no media exists with which you shouldn't at the very least be careful about--that's not what I'm saying. But having grown up with some pretty extreme views against media and having left that behind, I do wish my brothers and sisters in Christ wouldn't be quite so quick to write things off.
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Go ahead. Go watch Twilight Zone some more while you condemn others.
There's a word for that, you know. It starts with an "H".
And to think I was afraid I was doomed for reading The Shack.
Just reviewed Bread and Circuses. Actually he was drinking wine and eating grapes and the camera panned out and next he got out of bed (he was sleeping on the bed) of which he was sleeping fully clothed and with his shoes on. Who has sex fully clothed, with his shoes on, and on the covers? Have not reviewed the other episode, but I saw no evidence of sex in this episode besides some kisses. But frankly why would Kirk go to bed with a woman fully clothed and with shoes sleeping on the covers?
Know I need to take a break from the board and watch some old westerns. I love the Duke.
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PreachTony
Active Member
Not meaning offense here, evangelist, but do you ever form your own opinions on something or do you only say what other books say on a subject? Seriously, I mean no disrespect, but more often than not in this thread I've seen you counter with the opinions of fallible men instead of relying moreso on the inerrant Word of God.
You've railed on us for liking something that you've decided, based on the words of another sinful creature, is apparently the embodiment of evil and sin. You've taken the word of someone who has provided only tenuously linked negativity on a topic, rather than listening to your fellow board members here who are actually familiar with the game and can actually tell you that their experiences with it are so far from "satanic" as to be laughable.
Are there instances of satanic use of D&D? Probably, yeah. But people have used the Bible satanically, too. You've railed on something that some of us happen to enjoy, that we do not view in any way as a hindrance on our walk with God, yet you've avoided the hypocritical nature of your stances. If our enjoyment of a fictional world is "satanic," then surely your enjoyment of a fictional realm is just as "satanic." Neither are overt glorifications of Christ.
Again, I mean no offense. I just don't like being labeled as unworthy of fellowship with my fellow believers simply because you don't like the same thing I like.
Characters on 60's TV shows. And when they get married they wear pajamas, but have twin beds separated by a night stand.
Now you can't go wrong with the Duke...that's another story altogether.