Easter

RobyCop3. I’m only pointing out what should be known. I choose what I believe, and you choose what you believe. I can’t change anyone’s mind on anything. But truth is to do that. All that I point out is that Jesus did say for us to not get ourselves New Holy Days soiled with Idols. That is what happened to Israel, and the church has done the same. Is this truth, or lie?

You ask what the sin is; it is because the church brought God over to sit next to the pagan Gods. There is a reason that God’s first commandment says “don’t have any god/s before me”. That includes thinking we can move Him down to sit beside pagan God’s.

If you check the figures I’m sure you will find as many relationships are “broken”, as there are “mended” at Christmas time. More suicides, more depressed folk. Christmas for the majority of people is a hectic time, brought on by our desire to Worship His birth? He said to “remember” me as oft as you would. I refuse to set aside just one day of the year to worship Him, especially on false days (dates). You admit the date is not right for Christmas, yet that makes no difference to you? If those that love you say, “we want to celebrate Your birthday on a day we want”, is that OK with you?

What about Ishtar? It seems no one has ever taken the time to understand the date of Passover, and the day after Passover, which is always a High Sabbath, that no work servile work can be done. This is the reason that Friday was not the day picked by man. Jesus said He would be in the ground for three days and three nights. The Bible tells us what a night and a day add up to. It means 24 hours in a day, but the Catholic church, and those that believe as she, refuse to believe Jesus while on this earth.

Christmas is a “fairy tale”, something for children as they await Santa. At the birth of Christ gifts were brought to HIM To whom are our gifts given on this Holy Holiday that we worship. We can hardly wait so to give to everybody with the exception of Jesus Christ. Just who are we after all honoring? Jeremiah 10:2-5, ”Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.”

As for the Lord’s Supper you do right to observe His request when we will, when we are in the right relationship with Him. I have also done the same since 1937. Notice Jesus, and Jesus Christ did not say when theywill, but when you will. I don’t believe we must take communion with Him every time our church observes His request. We may only (or should) participate when we are sure we are right with Him. Hopefully that is most of the time. Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12

 

Ituttut:

Once again, if we toss practices, symbols or beliefs because they have a pagan origin, we'll hafta start with our current calendar. Next should go the symbol of the CROSS, as more than one pagan religion used them as symbols, hence the hot cross buns of Easter. Then, we must toss the idea of a Son of God dying & being resurrected, as this was found in the old Chaldean religion centered around Nimrod, Semiramis, & their son Tammuz long before the REAL Son of the REAL God came.

Just about every practice of Christianity was also done, and often ORIGINATED, by pagans. We must go with what is before us NOW.

Did you know that for a long time, thousands of years, many people, including some CHRISTIANS, considered the SWASTIKA a GOOD symbol? However, in MY lifetime, it's always been a symbol of the evil of Hitler & the Nazis.

As I said earlier, I ask everyone to go by his/her CONVICTIONS regarding any religious holiday. That includes Easter, the subject of this thread.

 

I've said it before: Symbols, like words, have context. ituttut wants to look on the historical outward appearance of where Easter may come from, but God will look on the heart of the one celebrating Easter today. Good post, robycop3.

 

I do believe you may have just opened my eyes to who your God really is. Your belief has now made my God the Great Imitator. God does not originate. He gets His ideas from the other god’s. Is that what you are saying? If this God you are following made a few good guesses, he got fouled up on his months and days. He is awfully bright, I will agree, but must be a lousy mathematician.

Please name what leader it is that God is following? All this time I had believed God created the heavens and the earth, and now I find it is not so. You are telling me others were before Him. I now know this must be true, for you have just told me so. The pagans set the dates, and God was helpless, so He said, OK, I’ll come over and join you. I’m whipped, and I’ll tell everybody to follow all that you say.

Do you wish to stand by what you are saying? I see you have followers that also believe this.

Yeah, really a great idea you have there. Forget our foundation, Jesus Christ. Yes we are talking about Easter. Your Easter is a made up date, and not even close to Passover, just as Christmas is nowhere near His birth. Please tell me who started Easter that the church today observes. It must come from His Book. If it doesn't, then why do you believe another?

 

As i said, believe whatcha wanna. Go right ahead, be a legalist. Just remember to keep EVERY LETTER of the law, or ya fail in all of'em.

NOW...are ya gonna chuck your calendar? It's a
mostly-RCC invention.

 

Robycop3, we believe the same thing, and don't know how you believe I'm a legalistical person in Christ. He did the all the work. Believe you may have mis-read my posts. If I observed this Holy Day, I would at least do it come Mon/Tue April 26th, 2005.

 

Why do you use those names of the week? They have their origins in paganism!

 

From what I can find about Easter, it was first observed by Christians C. 155 AD, but not UNIVERSALLY observed throughout Christendom. It was durung Constantine's time, the late 300s, when some pseudo-Christians from the early RCC began to mix pagan spring-rite customs with the Resurrection observance to produce what we now call Easter.

The RCC invented the formula for determining which day Easter comes in any given year so it would never fall on the same day as the Jews' Passover lamb meal. And, yes, "Easter" in the KJV's Acts 12:4 is WRONG.

And the observance of Christmas isn't quite as evil as some people would make it. For thousands of years, people in the Northern hemisphere, especially in more northerly latitudes, have held winter-solstice rites. Not knowing the mechanics of the solar system, they supposed the sun was going away, to possibly never return. Once they saw the beginnings of the sun's return to a higher place in the sky, they celebrated. This practice was still carried out by the Romans in the form of Saturnalia. The early Christians believed this to be an abomination because it was to honor SATURN, and not GOD. However, more than a few early Christians observed what they believed was Jesus' birthday as a solemn day of prayer and meditation.

The early Christians believed the PERSIANS to be more open to conversion than the Romans were, and Dec.25 was a sacred day to both Roman and Persian of the Mithraic religion. Therefore, even in the lifetime of John, these Christians began to observe Christmas with a celebration minus the debaucheries of the Romans' Saturnalia, while importing Christmas trees & the exchanging of gifts into it. They sought togive a "clean" alternative to the wild Roman parties which were replete with drunkenness, dope use, and orgies. They knew the Persians would welcome this also. By 98 AD, most Christians observed Christmas, with the emphasis still on JESUS.

The Catholics soon took it over. In 137 AD, the Bishop of Rome(not yet called "Pope") ordered Jesus' birthday to be observed as a solemn feast/prayer meeting. In 350, Bishop of Rome Julius I decreed Dec.25 as Christ's birthday, and it has been thus observed ever since.

Actually, according to astronomical observations of the "Star of Bethlehem" from several nations, such as China, who knew nothing of Jesus' birth, we can place the time of His birth as September or October, 6 BC. There are several stars in the vicinity, which aren't ordinarily visible to the naked eye that could have become novae or recurring novae, not really bright enough to have attracted worldwide attention, but bright enough to have caught the attention of the "wise men" and astrologers of the day. (It is believed by many scholars that the magi were Persians or Chaldeans who'd had the knowledge God gave to Daniel passed down to them, and therefore knew jesus was to be King of the WHOLE EARTH, and not just Israel. Therefore, those magi WORSHIPPED him.)

The key clue? Luke's mention of the first census , and his mention of QUIRINIUS, a well-known, well-documented Roman official, Augustus Caesar's "right-hand man". Some scholars state that Quirinius wasn't governor of the Judea area until 6 AD, but they overlook the fact that he was MILITARY governor of the area...and therefore de-facto ruler...from 10 BC till late 7 BC. he had come with a large army to subdue a rebellious tribe, the Homanadensians, whom he wisely "subdued" by negotiations and offers of Roman citizenship, making them ALLIES, instead of enemies, or instead of destroying them. Quirinius stayed awhile to assist them in becoming Romans. it is known Herod The Great died in 4 BC shortly after a lunar eclipse, and that AFTER TWO YEARS IN EGYPT, Joseph & Mary were told to return to their land with Jesus. However, Herod's son Archelaus was now ruler, and he was no friend of the Jews, and would doubtlessly have sought Jesus' life, so they went to Nazareth, out of Arch's jurisdiction, where they'd lived before Jesus' birth( Luke 1:26), and settled, rather than returning to Bethlehem.

The Annunciation doubtlessly took place in 7 BC(6th month, according to Luke1:26) while Quirinius was still ruling the area, with Jesus' birth coming in 6 BC. (We do NOT know how long it was after the Annunciation before Mary became pregnant with Jesus.)

Therefore, I believe Jesus was born in the fall of 6 BC.

One more fact: By the time of Jesus' ministry, the Jews had altered the original Passover procedure to the point where most of them now PURCHASED the lambs used for the paschal meal, rather than selecting them from their own flocks, as most of them didn't have flocks any more. They often purchased their lamb on the day before Passover, rather than selecting it on the 10th day as they were commanded in Exodus. It's not known if JESUS had purchased a lamb on the 10th or not, but Scripture clearly tells us that Joseph and Mary went to Jerusalem to observe it, rather than doing it in their own home, as was commanded in Exodus 12, and JESUS also participated thusly. It's apparent that GOD indeed allows some things to change with time. After all, it's GOD who allows man to advance in knowledge over time, a process He's greatly accelerated as He said, in the general time of "the end".

Now that we have all the dull history outta the way, let's look at your calendar, a CATHOLIC invention. For over 1500 years, most of the nations that were once part of the Roman Empire had used the JULIAN calendar of 46 BC(actually made for Julius Caesar by the Greek Sosigenes), which was FAIRLY accurate. However, it has an error of 1 day every 128 years, which was causing probs for the RCC in calculating the date of easter. SO...Along came the GREGORIAN calendar, calculated by Neapolitan physician Aloysius Lilius about the beginning of the Council of Trent(1545-1563) which adopted it and sent instructions to Pope Gregory XIII to implement it. However, Greg was in no hurry, but he finally implemented it by a papal bull in February 1582.

There was no rush by the rest of the world to adopt this calendar, as many nations, including England, refused to adopt it because it was of RCC origin. However, as astronomers from these nations found it to be accurate, with an error of only one day every 3300 years, which was to be corrected with another leap year, they slowly began using it, with England & its colonies starting in 1752, with the last being Greece in 1924. THIS IS THE CALENDAY YOU'RE NOW USING...A CATHOLIC INVENTION!

Do you suggest we go back to using the 360-day Jewish calendar?

I believe you're making a mountain out of a molehill, as JESUS HIMSELF went along with the changes in Israeli worship that had occurred between the time of Moses and His own earthly time. After all, it was HE who'd implemented most of'em over the preceeding 1500 years.

When you accuse me of "leading another God", it shows us you're speaking from ignorance(lack of knowledge) and a biased opinion. May I suggest you read your Bible a little closer, with an overview of all Scripture in mind, and perhaps study a little history while you're at it?

 

Why do you use those names of the week? They have their origins in paganism! </font>[/QUOTE]Are we not to admit we were pagans? We live in a paganistic world, but hopefully, not for long. If we don't recognize what we are, we won't see ourselves as sinners, in need of a savior.

I'm much pleased to see you understand that Satan is the prince of this world. Will you agree that he is some powerful guy? Most still believe in him, as that angel of light also draws. That light of his however draws those of the night to him, and flee when they see the brightness of God's light.

But we know Israel will inherit a new earth. We'll come down from heaven in the Kingdom of Christ at that time.

 

Natters:

SUNDAY=Sun's day(Roman, initially called dies solis by them.

MONDAY=Moon's day(Anglo-Saxon, monandaeg, literally "Moon's Day".

TUESDAY=Tyr's day(Tyr, or Tiw, was the Norse god of war.

WEDNESDAY=Wotan's(Odin's) Day(Norse; Wotan was king of their gods)

THURSDAY= Thor's day

FRIDAY= Frigga's(wife of Wotan's) Day

SATURDAY=Saturn's Day(Roman)

(The above condensed from Encyclopaedia Britannica)

I reckon Ituttut doesn't use those pagan names?

 

Ituttut: Are we not to admit we were pagans? We live in a paganistic world, but hopefully, not for long. If we don't recognize what we are, we won't see ourselves as sinners, in need of a savior.

I recognized that, no matter what else I'd done good, it was useless if I didn't COME TO CHRIST, as I'd sinned by not believing in Him earlier. However, I had no lack of acts that are universally recognize as sinful to be forgiven.

I'm much pleased to see you understand that Satan is the prince of this world. Will you agree that he is some powerful guy?

Every devout Baptist believes that.


Most still believe in him, as that angel of light also draws. That light of his however draws those of the night to him, and flee when they see the brightness of God's light.

Satan masquerades as an angel of light. HIS light pales before GOD'S light.

But we know Israel will inherit a new earth. We'll come down from heaven in the Kingdom of Christ at that time.

Correct. But we must remember to distinguish between LITERAL Israel and SPIRITUAL Israel. GOD is gonna bless LITERAL Israel because He SAID He would...not because they deserve it, but to show His power and the absolute truth of His word. He's already begun this with the JEWS, and he will begin with the REST of Israel before long.

 

[/QB] Lots of hate there son. I can’t find your “leading another God”.

I have studied the same knowledge that you gained. My prayer is for God to open the scriptures to you for understanding His dispensations. You have a good start. Keep on plugging away. Love is right around the corner. He has sent me to help. Christian faith ituttut Galatians 1:11-12

 

We do think and believe alike in many areas and are in the Body of Christ, His church in His kingdom. You say “But we must remember to distinguish between LITERAL Israel and SPIRITUAL Israel.” Yes, but we are to build on the foundation of Christ, His church today which we are to build on that same foundation that Paul lays on it. Israel is Israel, and we are not Israel today. That is the Bride. We are in Christ today.

As today God has cut-off His people at this point in time, they are now back with the heathen. No difference today of me and them. Christ says He has given to the 12 Apostles their own kingdom in His kingdom. That is not the kingdom that I will be in when Christ takes us into His kingdom. Our house is different than is Israel’s. Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12.

 

Sure. But if you can still use the pagan "Tuesday" even though you're now a Christian, why can't I observe Easter? You don't worship, let alone acknowledge the Germanic/Norse god of war on "Tiu's day" anymore than I worship, let along acknowledge Ishtar or Asherah or bunnies or whatever on Easter. Easter, like Tuesday, has taken on a completely different meaning, and it's this new meaning that's important.

Written on March (ie. Mars, Roman god of war) 22.

 

OH, YEAH...

JANUARY=Janus, that 2-faced Roman god

FEBRUARY=From a Roman rite of purification of women, from the Latin "febru", to purify

MARCH=Mars, Roman god of war, as Natters said

APRIL=latin "aperio", to open; the month when buds shoot forth

MAY=Maiesta, Roman goddess of honor

JUNE=Roman goddess Juno

JULY=Named for Julius Caesar, born in this month

AUGUST=named after Augustus Caesar, who had good fortune several times that month

The last 4 months bear LATIN names for 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th. The Romans once had a 10-month calendar, after the commotion caused by the sun's apparent retrograde motion for Hezekiah. (This event was recorded WORLDWIDE, BTW.)

So we use PAGAN names for our months. Sorry, Ituttut, your arguments come up short.

 

Sure. But if you can still use the pagan "Tuesday" even though you're now a Christian, why can't I observe Easter? You don't worship, let alone acknowledge the Germanic/Norse god of war on "Tiu's day" anymore than I worship, let along acknowledge Ishtar or Asherah or bunnies or whatever on Easter. Easter, like Tuesday, has taken on a completely different meaning, and it's this new meaning that's important.

Written on March (ie. Mars, Roman god of war) 22. </font>[/QUOTE]Hi natters. I don’t know why you can’t observe Easter if you want to.

All I’m saying it is not biblical. It is man made. This is where pagan worship came from – man, and not God. So the church moved the Passover away from it’s correct date to a false date, and knowingly moved Christmas to a false date. And you are saying what? You are saying that this new meaning is what's important. Right? But I don’t know what this new meaning is. Since they are New, to me, can only mean Jesus Christ is being crucified again, but on a different day that the church picks, and cuts His time in the tomb in half, and has Him once again going to heaven. We just don’t have the power to change days, and times, that God has set, but man cannot bring himself to believe otherwise.

You are easily making my point for me. Who gave man or a church the authority to make-up new Holy Days. Those that worshipped false gods above did exactly what the churches have done. Make up what they wish. If not then Scripture must be presented.

He asks that we remember Him in one way, as oft as we will. He asks us for nothing more, and nothing less. But for those that wish to do more than they have been told, it seems to me, will have to pay a price. Moses did. He did more than God told him to.

 

Ituttut, we're surrounded by man-made things. After all, we're men ourselves. To get away from all "pagan" things, we'd hafta chuck our calendars, & the names of the days of the week, & the names of the months, as well as the numbers of years for starters. And again...Did JESUS go along with changing the Passover observance from being held in the home to being observed in Jerusalem, and from choosing the paschal lamb from one's own flock to buying one from a vendor?

 

ituttut, don't think I didn't notice you completely avoiding responding to Tiu's Day. Maybe I had to wait for today, Woden's Day, for your answer.

And no, Jesus isn't being crucified again.

 

You're right. That's just for starters. The typical wedding: from the white dress to the throwing rice to the wedding ring to the "honeymoon" (month of honey wine) - all man-made, pagan origins. Same with birthday cake, embalming, many sports, spires on churches, having a king, symbols on currency, etc., etc., etc.