"Easy-beievism"

[pinoybaptist]

Let's draw the line and drop all pretenses to "brotherhood" and "brethren-in-Christ" yadayada.
There are Calvinists, and there are those who believe LIKE Calvinists do, on this board.
Calvinists naturally like to define things according to their perspectives, and their counterparts do the same.
If you all don't like it, then BAN ALL CALVINISTS AND THOSE WHO HOLD TO THE DOCTRINE OF GRACE FROM ALL DISCUSSIONS, but be men about it, instead of crying "derailment" when it is reasonable on their part to define things, like "easy believeism" according to how they understand the word "believe" and everything that comes before and after it.

 

[DHK]

Let's draw the line and drop all pretenses to "brotherhood" and "brethren-in-Christ" yadayada.
There are Calvinists, and there are those who believe LIKE Calvinists do, on this board.
Calvinists naturally like to define things according to their perspectives, and their counterparts do the same.
If you all don't like it, then BAN ALL CALVINISTS AND THOSE WHO HOLD TO THE DOCTRINE OF GRACE FROM ALL DISCUSSIONS, but be men about it, instead of crying "derailment" when it is reasonable on their part to define things, like "easy believeism" according to how they understand the word "believe" and everything that comes before and after it.

How did you, as a Christian, come to know the Lord Jesus Christ as your Saviour? When did you trust or believe on Him?

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

 

[evangelist6589]

Exactaly how would you define "Easy-beievism"

On one hand, I would be cautious of "1-2-3- Repeat after me"

But on the other hand Salvation simply comes by believing in Grace thru Faith of the Lord -

Motion has been seconded - open for discussion

Easy-believism is the evangelism of the modern church. It teaches that all one needs to do is say a simple prayer and have no true conversion as a result of it and no transformed life. True converts will show fruit of a true conversion, while the easy-believism gospel does not advocate fruit. Those that preach a easy-believism message do not emphasize the LAW, sin, hell, judgment, and repentance. They preach that one can come to Christ to transform and give one a wonderful life and a plan, without the need to fully repent from sin.

Submitting to the LORDSHIP OF CHRIST is not a human work, but a spiritual work that only God can do. Those that preach the true gospel do not separate sanctification, from justification. However the easy-believism message does not emphasize Sanctification or Regeneration at all, but only IMPUTATION, AND JUSTIFICATION.

 

[evangelist6589]

Pretty much in agreement with the OP.
I don't believe salavation is hard to get if you're sincere--but living a Christian life on the other hand? That's hard to do.

So you suggest that the magical prayer is how one gets saved and one needs no fruit or true conversion? In other words Regeneration and Sanctification are boring theological words with no business in a gospel presentation?

 

[evangelist6589]

Seems to me that easy-believeism de-emphasizes repentance, a Godly sorrow for one's sin and a desire to turn from it.

To me, repentance and faith are two sides of the same coin. They go together.

Even the demons believe and tremble (James). The demons are not atheists and if you recall were the only true believers of Christ during his earthy ministry at first. However they had the wrong faith and only knew Christ intellectually, but had no business with him.

 

[DHK]

Easy-believism is the evangelism of the modern church. It teaches that all one needs to do is say a simple prayer and have no true conversion as a result of it and no transformed life. True converts will show fruit of a true conversion, while the easy-believism gospel does not advocate fruit. Those that preach a easy-believism message do not emphasize the LAW, sin, hell, judgment, and repentance. They preach that one can come to Christ to transform and give one a wonderful life and a plan, without the need to fully repent from sin.

Submitting to the LORDSHIP OF CHRIST is not a human work, but a spiritual work that only God can do. Those that preach the true gospel do not separate sanctification, from justification. However the easy-believism message does not emphasize Sanctification or Regeneration at all, but only IMPUTATION, AND JUSTIFICATION.

Salvation and sanctification are two different things.
We often know a person is saved by their fruit. That fruit is evident because the believer is going through a process of sanctification. The fruit of the believer, and the process of sanctification, ought to be kept separate from one's salvation, or justification.

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God.
We are justified by faith. How? "By faith."
What kind of faith?
What is the difference between "easy-believism faith" and "saving faith"?

 

[evangelist6589]

Irrelevant to the discussion. He's not asking about the "cause" of faith, he's asking about the effect of faith.
---
It might surprise many of you who have recently disparaged Dr. Billy Graham that he is also concerned about "easy-believism."

Christianity Today: Billy Graham's Warning Against an Epidemic of 'Easy Believism'​

Not exactly what some of you expect from Dr. Graham, I'm sure. This won't keep you from insisting he's a heretic, though.

What????? You know many dislike Dr. Graham, but David Jeremiah and Erwin Lutzer speak well of him. It seems many on the more Reformed side dislike him. I heard him speak several times in 1997 when he visited the SF Bay Area. I don't recall him preaching an "easy-believism" message from my recollection of him at that time. However I wonder if I could watch that crusade again if I can find the videos online, and YouTube did not exist in 1997.

 

[evangelist6589]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

It fits perfectly into the discussion which is about belief, and which is mentioned in the OP. Pay attention, I believe your disdain is blinding you. :thumbs:

Brother we should be kind to those that disagree with us. Arminian need to not be insulted personally, only their views need to be exposed.

 

[evangelist6589]

I have no problem with the question. I have a problem with every thread on this forum except in Sports and Clean Humor eventually becoming about Calvinism.

You say so ...

Does this include all the debates here on Alcoholic beverages?

 

[evangelist6589]

I'm not sure if I understand your question. I trusted Jesus to save me from my sins, and I believe according to God's word that I am saved.

I think it is right to consider myself saved. Anybody who sincerely calls upon Jesus to save him from his sins and depends only on Jesus should consider himself saved.

So they can have an emotional experience for a moment and then a month or year later can walk away and show no evidence of true conversion?

 

[evangelist6589]

Perhaps I haven't made myself clear. Sorry. Sometimes I don't have enough coffee. Particularly after walking an aisle and ... oh, never mind. :laugh:

I don't doubt one can sincerely believe, as you've described, "easily." What I was defining is what "easy believism" is, versus what is typically described on this forum as "easy believism." Many on here would say you engaged in it through sola fide. As I said, they don't believe "easy believism" entails sanctification, whereas I'm certain bonafide faith can, indeed come easily, but assuredly implies instant/positional, progressive/experiential and ultimate sanctification.

"Easy believism" is used as an epithet around here, by those who mistake justification for sanctification. They aren't the same thing.

No they are not. One God declares the sinner righteous, and the other is the process in life being separated from sin and made holy.

 

[evangelist6589]

I'm not sure if I understand your question. I trusted Jesus to save me from my sins, and I believe according to God's word that I am saved.

I think it is right to consider myself saved. Anybody who sincerely calls upon Jesus to save him from his sins and depends only on Jesus should consider himself saved.

Sin??? Do you believe in original sin? Maybe I misunderstood you, but did you not argue that man was not born with a sin nature, but only became a sinner after his first sin?

Psalm 58:3 (KJV)
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

 

[evangelist6589]

Salvation and sanctification are two different things.
We often know a person is saved by their fruit. That fruit is evident because the believer is going through a process of sanctification. The fruit of the believer, and the process of sanctification, ought to be kept separate from one's salvation, or justification.

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God.
We are justified by faith. How? "By faith."
What kind of faith?
What is the difference between "easy-believism faith" and "saving faith"?

Some authors argue that our fruit and works only earns us rewards in Heaven and true obedient will inherit heaven, while the disobedient and those not walking in the spirit will only enter heaven, but will not inherit it. They may in other words live in a shack and have no mansion or great glory in Heaven.

However I am confused as to how someone whom does not walk with the Lord and lives for the flesh could enter heaven just for saying a prayer. and having an experience when he was 15 years old.

 

[Salty]

Easy-believism is the evangelism of the modern church. It teaches that all one needs to do is say a simple prayer and have no true conversion as a result of it and no transformed life. True converts will show fruit of a true conversion, while the easy-believism gospel does not advocate fruit. Those that preach a easy-believism message do not emphasize the LAW, sin, hell, judgment, and repentance. They preach that one can come to Christ to transform and give one a wonderful life and a plan, without the need to fully repent from sin. ...

What is different from the "modern church" and Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved ?

 

[DHK]

Some authors argue that our fruit and works only earns us rewards in Heaven and true obedient will inherit heaven, while the disobedient and those not walking in the spirit will only enter heaven, but will not inherit it. They may in other words live in a shack and have no mansion or great glory in Heaven.

1Cor.3:11-15 describes the scene where believers will suffer a loss of reward or a gain of reward. The picture is one of wood, hay and stubble, vs. gold, silver and precious stones. This picture is far more accurate then the figurative picture that Jesus gives in John 14 of a mansion (which isn't an accurate term in the KJV).

However I am confused as to how someone whom does not walk with the Lord and lives for the flesh could enter heaven just for saying a prayer. and having an experience when he was 15 years old.

First he may not be saved.
Second, he may be backslidden (a term many do not like here).
The fact is that we don't know the heart; only God does. It is our business to deal with such a person on a one to one basis whatever his spiritual need may be. May the Lord direct us as we counsel such individuals that we might be wise in the Scriptures and filled with the Spirit to lead them to Christ and a life of obedience.

 

[evangelist6589]

What is different from the "modern church" and Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved ?

Even the demons believe. Is that al it takes? No one must understand what the word believe means according to the greek and culture context of the Bible.

 

[Salty]

Even the demons believe. Is that al it takes? No one must understand what the word believe means according to the greek and culture context of the Bible.

So Paul was wrong?

 

[Iconoclast]

Good grief guys he is asking how you define easy believism. He is not asking for cause or effect those are off topic in this thread.

Why are you twisting this? Everyone knows what easy believism is, so naturally the question addresses Saltys 3rd sentence.Who are you to pronounce what is off topic? it is a contrast of true God given faith/belief...vs the fleshly human trust that is emotionally based and not spiritual.

 

[Iconoclast]

thisnumbersdisconnected

Salty's post simply states ...

But on the other hand Salvation simply comes by believing in Grace thru Faith of the Lord -

This speaks to the cause....[Salvation simply comes by]

Nothing there about the "cause" of any of it.

This statement speaks to it directly:thumbs:

 

[evenifigoalone]

So you suggest that the magical prayer is how one gets saved and one needs no fruit or true conversion? In other words Regeneration and Sanctification are boring theological words with no business in a gospel presentation?

I never said any of that. Unless I'm mistaken, until today I have not said a word on my beliefs regarding this subject, so you don't know what I believe.


I'm not and never have been a calvinist (nor an arminian, if I understand the definition correctly), but for what it's worth I agree with the reply you gave to the OP. There needs to be a real change of heart. James tells us that works are evidence of salvation.

I also agree with Winman's posts. I don't believe there's anything hard about getting "saved", if one is sincere and drawn by the Spirit. But those are two things that only the person being drawn can know for sure.