• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Education: Knowledge, Understanding, Wisdom

Rob_BW

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Perhaps you would better agree with the statement in this context.

The statement you quoted was concerning that student who from the beginning would darken the door already successful in learning, in this instance, linear algebra. The tests and evidence only showed that they could reproduce what was expected, but not evidence of having learned or acquired something that was not previously known. Assuming the tests and classroom presentations were typical for the vast number of campuses, they relied on providing the correct answer based upon the ability to produce the facts and skills necessary.

What was not proved was if the student actually learned anything.

Often such a student might pass the typical classroom with an "A," because it is part of the syllabus standard and so granting of the grade is appropriate.

In your situation, you were granted the "A" and held as proven product of the educational learning. By interacting with the professor demonstrating not merely ability of regurgitation of facts and skill but "applicable knowledge", and that hunger for further understanding manifested by working ahead, abundantly displayed you were showing consistent improvement.

Your character was also reflected within the learning environment.


:)
The student in your example should have just CLEP'd out of algebra.
;)
 

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Often here on the BB, people suggest that an uneducated debater or theologian can be just as effective as an educated one. The idea is that we all have the same Holy Spirit, so education isn't that helpful for Bible interpretation. Well, yes and no.

The answer to the idea that theological education doesn't help much is the Biblical concept of what I call a trilogy of the mind: knowledge, understanding, wisdom. Now that term is not in Scripture, but the concept is there quite often, with those three terms being used together in numerous passages of Scripture. In my theology, knowledge consists of facts and their inter-relation, understanding is the ability to discern what those facts and their relationships mean, and wisdom is the ability to make the right choices in regards to those facts.

A good education may or may not give you wisdom. Wisdom is a gift from God, as witness the story of Solomon. It can be prayed for and received (James 1:5), or simply gained from diligent Bible study. Understanding can be gained to some degree in this way also, as can knowledge. But a good theological education allows one to sift through mistakes much faster. For example, in my son's new book on Rev. 1-3, he points out how Rev. 3:3 is referring to the fact that Sardis had twice been conquered by armies sneaking in.

Note the following passages which teach the trilogy of the mind. (There many others.)

Ex 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowletdge, and in all manner of workmanship,

Pr 2:6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth [cometh] knowledge and understanding.

Pr 2:10-11 When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul; Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee:

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Da 1:4 Children in whom [was] no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as [had] ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans.

Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard [it], do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

Eph 1:17-18 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints.
Ask Steve Tassi if he did well against Dr. James White.

Yes, there’s no beating a better education.
 

John of Japan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Let me start by saying that education is a Good Thing, and the acquisition of knowledge is to be recommended. I don't want to go to hospital and be treated by someone who has no medical education, or have my house re-wired by someone who is not a qualified electrician.

However, in Britain thousands of churches, including many Baptist ones :Frown, are led by people who are seminary trained, have a fine knowledge of Greek and Hebrew, but are liberals in their theology and do not know the Lord. IMO, there is no Baptist Union seminary in the UK that is truly Bible-believing, and that includes Spurgeon's-- the Great Man would not recognize his own college today. Those Baptist churches that desire a true, Bible-believing Pastor are well-advised to look outside the B.U. I would far rather hear a sermon from someone who has no seminary training but knows the Lord, than one with a PhD in theology who doesn't. [Best of course is the guy with the PhD who does know the Lord!]

There is also such a thing as the Tyranny of Experts. We have all heard evolutionary biologists spouting off, and when someone challenges them, they air their doctorates and place themselves above contradiction. The same thing happens over here concerning theology. You get some Bishop in the Church of England on the television speaking the most awful heresy, but he is believed by folk precisely because he is a Bishop and has a whole string of theological degrees to his name!

So those on this board who have theological qualifications have my admiration, but they will not automatically have my agreement simply because of their degrees.
I agree. But I will say that a degree from a liberal school will not have true knowledge, wisdom or understanding. Their teaching will be against God and the Bible.

In my recent trip to Texas for research, I found a letter from a noted liberal theologian, objecting to being called apostate (or a similar word) by John R. Rice. In Rice's reply, he did not budge an inch.

In answer to your 'trilogy of the mind,' I would say that knowledge is the ingestion of facts, understanding is knowing what those facts mean and wisdom is knowing how to apply those facts to one's life. In other words, I might learn Psalm 119 off by heart; that would be knowledge. I might know what it means; that would be understanding. But the most important thing would be to obey it; that is wisdom (Proverbs 1:7).
Good thinking.
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You never did interact with my question (twice) as to the meaning of knowledge and wisdom--are they synonyms? I guess I'll just give up on that. They are certainly different Biblically.

Of course they are different. I really did not interact with wisdom, but pretty much left out the "triology" except for knowledge. Thought that if you got the proper alignment from that one, you would readily get the rest.

Wisdom is that which engages discernment as to judgment of what is correct, right, righteous, ...

Knowledge is not discernment but that which is acquired by acceptance of facts, understanding and skill.

You insist that you "teach knowledge" and I insist that you take from your knowledge and impart it as facts, understanding and skill that the student may or may not incorporate into their own knowledge.

The students do not come without prior knowledge and opinions as to what is of value and useful as a tool. They determine what is added, what is detrimental, does not fit, or whatever to their own parameters and schema.


Unlike God, who can and does manipulate the mind and heart, we may only present facts, opinions, views, of our understanding, and our own rational. but, we cannot teach knowledge. Each person has their own bucket of knowledge from which they may add what they determine is worthy.



You are still not interacting, and perhaps then not understanding, my OP. I presented knowledge, understanding and wisdom as a Biblical trilogy (from Greek "three words"). They go together, work together, and I desire all three for my students. I don't teach knowledge separately from understanding and wisdom.

Again, this is the very crux of my argument.

You don't teach knowledge at all.

You present FROM you knowledge such facts, skills, understanding, and bits of anecdotes that the students may add to their own knowledge.

There is no rational way to teach "knowledge" rather you teach the elements of knowledge (facts, skills, understanding, ...)

For example:

The teacher has a bucket filled with what they consider the wisdom of the ages. It comes in the facts learned, experiences, understanding, even the body languages of multi cultures, and other life lived items.

The student has their own bucket with an undetermined capacity. In some manner they have determined that they lack something that you may offer.

So as that teacher dips out of their bucket the elements OF knowledge (skills, facts, experiences, understanding, body language presentations (non-verbal cues), and other life lived items) , the students will select what is deposited into their own bucket.

Students are the determiner of the importance, and not the presenter.

So, one does not teach "knowledge." One may present, offer (as does the Proverbs) principles to live by that the student may both learn to discern (wisdom) and to properly apply what is acquired (specific knowledge pertaining to the subject).

Btw, lest you think that I am not staying within the framework of "knowledge" as it is presented in the Scriptures, look at Proverbs 18:15 which places the responsibility upon the student:
15The mind of the prudent acquires knowledge,
And the ear of the wise seeks knowledge.​

The Scriptures present knowledge as not just acquired learning, but also as displayed in character and reverence. It is connected to wisdom through practiced discernment such as expressed in Proverbs 8, and again, the focus is upon the learner, not the presenter:
8“All the utterances of my mouth are in righteousness;
There is nothing crooked or perverted in them.
9“They are all straightforward to him who understands,
And right to those who find knowledge.
10Take my instruction and not silver,
And knowledge rather than choicest gold.​

True knowledge is reflected in a life of obedience in contrast with those who lack and reject knowledge. This is evidenced in Hosea 4:
6My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
Because you have rejected knowledge,
I also will reject you from being My priest.
Since you have forgotten the law of your God,
I also will forget your children.​

Did the people reject knowledge, or did they lack righteous instruction that conforms knowledge to righteousness? Did the priests reject their own knowledge, or did they not submit to the principles and standards of God found in His wisdom and His knowledge?

When Ephraim's captivity is promised by God through the prophet Isaiah, does not God state they rejected his knowledge? What form did that knowledge come?
9“To whom would He teach knowledge,
And to whom would He interpret the message?
Those just weaned from milk?
Those just taken from the breast?

10“For He says,
‘Order on order, order on order,
Line on line, line on line,
A little here, a little there.’”
Master teachers present "line upon line." They form the lessons with order. Present each concept a bit at a time as to not overwhelm.

One last verse from Psalm 139. Here the psalmist is attempting to comprehend God. He lists a number of elements in the psalm and in there makes this statement:
6Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
It is too high, I cannot attain to it.
The psalmist is basically saying that the instruction is beyond his capacity to understand, comprehend, to fit into his bucket of knowledge.
 

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
Keeping an education in perspective is sometimes mistaken for anti-intellectualism.

1Co 13:2

And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.​

Moses's education was ineffectual in convincing Pharoah. Paul's education didn't help him win the Jews, and though some here think there was knowledge that Christ lacked as a man (though they won't say it), His miracle-working didn't win their hearts either. There is one effectual element that contributes to the spread of the Gospel, and that is the will of the Father, and He chooses the weak and foolish things of the world to confound the mighty and the wise. The best pastor I ever knew was uneducated.

On the other hand, the commandment to us is to pursue wisdom and knowledge, and Christ commands us to learn of Him, but some like to wear their spirituality to cover their slothfulness and disobedience in this respect. Learn. Get knowledge and wisdom (and wisdom also means the ability to discern the difference between knowledge and hogwash) but keep it in perspective. Your knowledge will pass away.

Faith, hope and love abide. And the greatest of these is love. And there is one source of love. It is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.
 

John of Japan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Of course they are different. I really did not interact with wisdom, but pretty much left out the "triology" except for knowledge. Thought that if you got the proper alignment from that one, you would readily get the rest.

Wisdom is that which engages discernment as to judgment of what is correct, right, righteous, ...

Knowledge is not discernment but that which is acquired by acceptance of facts, understanding and skill.
I actually meant to say your posts treat knowledge and understanding as synonyms, not knowledge and wisdom. Sorry about that. But here again, you seem to treat knowledge and understanding as synonyms.
Unlike God, who can and does manipulate the mind and heart, we may only present facts, opinions, views, of our understanding, and our own rational. but, we cannot teach knowledge. Each person has their own bucket of knowledge from which they may add what they determine is worthy.
Actually, as teachers we do not "only present facts, opinions," etc. We have a huge influence on the lives of the students. But you know that.

The rest of your post continues to argue that one cannot teach knowledge, which is something about which I think we should agree to disagree. Since you continue with it, then, I'll simply post Scripture that directly contradicts that idea:

Ps. 119:66--"Teach me good judgment and knowledge: for I have believed thy commandments."

Is. 28:9--"Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts." (Since you've already quoted this one, you should have paid attention to your own quoted Scripture. We can and do teach knowledge.)
 
Last edited:

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I am not willing for you to become too exercised in the matter. The understanding will come to you as you continue as an educator. Not because I transferred such knowledge, but your own awareness will cause acceptance.

You will teach what you know - the skills, facts, rationale,behaviors.... Students will acquire what they consider worthy and conform it to their own knowing.

That you want to call what you teach, knowledge, is not worth the further striving.

I predict that you will awaken to this thread’s discussion, again considering the distinctions, and be more agreeable as to the accuracy of my statements.

Not now, but you will, if only in your own private acknowledgement.

You teach what you know.

You teach what you know in skills, ideas, rationale, displays of body language, understandings in comparison and contrast, ...

As for the Scripture you offered

Did I not acknowledge that God can, did, and does manipulate the heart and mind according to His desires? Is this not the statement of those Scriptures?

Do you have such ability?

Nope.

So, you must rely upon teaching: skills, ideas, rationale, understanding, techniques, modeling each and conforming to presenting each orderly.

It remains the student who determines what and often when what you have offered will be absorbed into their own knowledge

No doubt, you will one day become agreeable.

Until then, would you like to recall your statement concerning teaching wisdom?

Do you actually teach wisdom, or do you teach the elements of wisdom (such as discernment) that the student’s wisdom be enlarged, and more acute?

Same principle applies as that of knowledge.
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Readers,

This is an important lesson and am reminded of a pastors child attending college.

After class they called home. The conversation went something like this.

Dad: “Hello”

Child: “Papa, I wanted to share what I learned in class, today! (Child goes on and on at discovering something important)

Dad: “Did you not remember I taught you that years ago?”

Child: “You did?” “When?” “Maybe I wasn’t listening.”
 

John of Japan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
As for the Scripture you offered
Did I not acknowledge that God can, did, and does manipulate the heart and mind according to His desires? Is this not the statement of those Scriptures?

Do you have such ability?

Nope.
The Scriptures I offered specifically say that knowledge is taught, though as you say, by God in those passages. Therefore I'll offer another verse where knowledge is taught by a man:

Eccl. 12:9--"And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs."

Yes, I do teach knowledge, just as "the preacher" did.


Until then, would you like to recall your statement concerning teaching wisdom?

Do you actually teach wisdom, or do you teach the elements of wisdom (such as discernment) that the student’s wisdom be enlarged, and more acute?

Same principle applies as that of knowledge.
Yes, I teach wisdom. My definition of Biblical wisdom is the ability to make decisions in the way of righteousness that please the Lord. I am preparing a lecture for a missions class on the missionary family in which I will clearly lay out the errors missionaries can make with their families, and the decisions that will prevent disaster on the mission field. They may reject that wisdom, but they will have it in their minds when I teach it.

Here are Scriptures proving that we can and do teach wisdom.

Job 32:7--"I said, Days should speak, and multitude of years should teach wisdom."
Job 33:33--"If not, hearken unto me: hold thy peace, and I shall teach thee wisdom."
Ps. 105:22--"To bind his princes at his pleasure; and teach his senators wisdom."
Prov. 4:11--"I have taught thee in the way of wisdom; I have led thee in right paths."
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
If a student comes to your classroom, in which you teach knowledge and wisdom, why might they not be successful?

You gave out knowledge and wisdom.

Why did the student not acquire knowledge and wisdom?

Don’t pretend (as beginning teachers might) to post, “Well, I taught it, they just didn’t receive it.” Your offering of Scripture won’t support that type statement or even thinking.

You are the teacher! Do all students learn equally?

Or do you present and conform to the skills and parameters that student brings as they darken your door that they (and you) succeed in transferring - skill, understanding, rationale, attitudes, ...

What did you lack of your own ability that the Scriptures you shared would be valid?

Btw, Elihu wasn’t all that wise in his presentation to Job then the other three had been.
God said:
2“Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?​
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Ecclesiastes 12:

9In addition to being a wise man, the Preacher also taught the people knowledge; and he pondered, searched out and arranged many proverbs. 10The Preacher sought to find delightful words and to write words of truth correctly.

11The words of wise men are like goads, and masters of these collections are like well-driven nails; they are given by one Shepherd. 12But beyond this, my son, be warned: the writing of many books is endless, and excessive devotion to books is wearying to the body.
The underlined words are significant into “how” the Preacher taught.

The wise Preacher (as any worthy and wise teacher) presented without regard to station, creed, or custom, to the people equally (without favoritism) knowledge (the principle application is the teaching of discernment, understanding).

He developed his lesson plans very carefully, consulted many resources, arranged the teaching in order, even carefully chose what words to speak and write and that it be done correctly (grammatically accurate), with that principle of clarity - truth.
 

John of Japan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
If a student comes to your classroom, in which you teach knowledge and wisdom, why might they not be successful?

You gave out knowledge and wisdom.

Why did the student not acquire knowledge and wisdom?

Don’t pretend (as beginning teachers might) to post, “Well, I taught it, they just didn’t receive it.” Your offering of Scripture won’t support that type statement or even thinking.

You are the teacher! Do all students learn equally?

Or do you present and conform to the skills and parameters that student brings as they darken your door that they (and you) succeed in transferring - skill, understanding, rationale, attitudes, ...

What did you lack of your own ability that the Scriptures you shared would be valid?
I have never claimed that all my students "get" everything I teach. But that does not change the fact that I teach knowledge, understanding and wisdom.

I just finished teaching Greek 101. In spite of my warnings, several students were not diligent enough in their studies. I taught, but they did not listen. The fact that they were not as diligent as they could be does not negate the fact that I taught. However, through much prayer and guidance, no one failed the course. There were 11/25 with A's, but alas, there were five with Ds. However, four of those D's were high D's--those students did very well on their quizzes towards the end of the 9 week block, with one "D girl" making 100s on her last three quizzes! This means those students listened to my instructions on how to improve throughout the course.

The difference between my teaching and secular teaching is that I have the Holy Spirit on my side, working in their hearts and minds to receive what I teach. This makes secular teaching and teaching in a Bible college hugely different.
Btw, Elihu wasn’t all that wise in his presentation to Job then the other three had been.
God said:
2“Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?​
Point taken, but you can't so easily ignore the other verses on teaching knowledge and wisdom.
 

Covenanter

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I have never claimed that all my students "get" everything I teach. But that does not change the fact that I teach knowledge, understanding and wisdom.
I can't say I have followed the whole thread - nor have I read it the private arguments. I think you are very patient.

I would say that as a teacher you can teach knowledge, apply that knowledge to give understanding & teach how applied knowledge & understanding lead to wisdom. In a Christian context, you & the students have the Holy Spirit.

However your basic knowledge & understanding may be flawed - as we have argued in many threads. I won't go into detail, but as we seek to understand the Scriptures we make certain assumptions:

literal/historical/grammatical for all Scripture;
or
literal/historical/grammatical for the New Covenant Scriptures which show the fulfilment & spiritual understanding of the Old.
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I have never claimed that all my students "get" everything I teach. But that does not change the fact that I teach knowledge, understanding and wisdom.

I just finished teaching Greek 101. In spite of my warnings, several students were not diligent enough in their studies. I taught, but they did not listen. The fact that they were not as diligent as they could be does not negate the fact that I taught. However, through much prayer and guidance, no one failed the course....This means those students listened to my instructions on how to improve throughout the course.

The difference between my teaching and secular teaching is that I have the Holy Spirit on my side, working in their hearts and minds to receive what I teach. This makes secular teaching and teaching in a Bible college hugely different.

Point taken, but you can't so easily ignore the other verses on teaching knowledge and wisdom.

When you were in school, were you taught knowledge or were you taught the elements that are contained within the knowledge of the instructor, which as you incorporated into your own schema (pattern of thought/behavior) enlarged your own knowledge that you already had?

When a preacher presents, from where do they draw the wisdom and knowledge? Certainly (as the preacher in Ecclesiastes) from multiple resources - schooling, reading outside materials, encounters, ... The pattern is that the "multitude of counselors" are used to form a plan of action, a teaching, a principle of application,...

What does the preacher hope to communicate? What is necessary for the lesson to be a success?

The same with the teacher.

The presentation is not knowledge, wisdom, but the elements of such. That the listeners respond appropriately.

There is another matter that I pointed to in a recent post.

I ask, if the student isn't successful, who is at fault.

You responded,
"In spite of my warnings, several students were not diligent enough in their studies. I taught, but they did not listen. The fact that they were not as diligent as they could be does not negate the fact that I taught."​

So, you acknowledge that the burden of learning is upon the student. That despite you pouring out all wisdom and knowledge, they ultimately are responsible to acquire the skills, and understanding.

This may seem very agreeable to most teachers, and presents an escape when a student is not successful. It is also consistent with the warnings of the watchman on the wall presented in Scriptures.

However, there is more. As you state, the Holy Spirit must be involved. (beginning of wisdom).

But, what if the standard were even higher?

What if the standard was, "All students can learn equally," and that the teacher was ultimately the determination of the equal success of all students?
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
A great gift a teacher may bestow upon the student is not what is contained in books, but all the skills that are necessary to discern the truth of what is contained in the books.
 
Last edited:

John of Japan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
When you were in school, were you taught knowledge or were you taught the elements that are contained within the knowledge of the instructor, which as you incorporated into your own schema (pattern of thought/behavior) enlarged your own knowledge that you already had?
"When you were in school" covers about 22 years and literally dozens of teachers. I went 12 years to secular schools, 8 years to theological schools, and two years to Japanese language school. So this question is not really answerable as it stands.

When a preacher presents, from where do they draw the wisdom and knowledge? Certainly (as the preacher in Ecclesiastes) from multiple resources - schooling, reading outside materials, encounters, ... The pattern is that the "multitude of counselors" are used to form a plan of action, a teaching, a principle of application,...

What does the preacher hope to communicate? What is necessary for the lesson to be a success?

The same with the teacher.
When I preach, it is to expound the word of God, as Paul taught Timothy: "Preach the Word," with the goals of reproof, rebuke, and exhortation by using patience and doctrine (2 Tim. 4:2). This is quite a different task from teaching the Word. Content is different, preparation is different, and delivery is different. That is why Eph. 4:11 has both teachers and preachers listed.

The presentation is not knowledge, wisdom, but the elements of such. That the listeners respond appropriately.

There is another matter that I pointed to in a recent post.

I ask, if the student isn't successful, who is at fault.

You responded,
"In spite of my warnings, several students were not diligent enough in their studies. I taught, but they did not listen. The fact that they were not as diligent as they could be does not negate the fact that I taught."​

So, you acknowledge that the burden of learning is upon the student. That despite you pouring out all wisdom and knowledge, they ultimately are responsible to acquire the skills, and understanding.
Not exactly. I acknowledge that the process is not one sided. I teach, but they must learn.


This may seem very agreeable to most teachers, and presents an escape when a student is not successful. It is also consistent with the warnings of the watchman on the wall presented in Scriptures.

However, there is more. As you state, the Holy Spirit must be involved. (beginning of wisdom).

But, what if the standard were even higher?

What if the standard was, "All students can learn equally," and that the teacher was ultimately the determination of the equal success of all students?
True, in some classes, "All students can learn equally." For example, in the very first period I tell my Greek students about the linguistic theory of universal grammar, which means that every single one of them can learn Greek. However, occasionally I have a student with a learning handicap, and some of the students are quite gifted in the are of language while others are average.

On the other hand, I completely reject the idea that the teacher is "ultimately the determination of the equal success of all students. Not long ago I had a discussion with the head of the music department about my problem students in Greek, and she had each one of them pegged, including two who had character problems. If students are lazy or have other character problems (rebellion, pride, etc.), their failure is upon their own heads.
 

John of Japan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
A great gift a teacher may bestow upon the student is not what is contained in books, but all the skills that are necessary to discern the truth of what is contained in the books.
I state it quite differently. My goal as a Bible college prof is to teach the students to think. They are then equipped to discern truth and error.
 

John of Japan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I can't say I have followed the whole thread - nor have I read it the private arguments. I think you are very patient.

I would say that as a teacher you can teach knowledge, apply that knowledge to give understanding & teach how applied knowledge & understanding lead to wisdom. In a Christian context, you & the students have the Holy Spirit.
So far so good.
However your basic knowledge & understanding may be flawed - as we have argued in many threads. I won't go into detail, but as we seek to understand the Scriptures we make certain assumptions:

literal/historical/grammatical for all Scripture;
or
literal/historical/grammatical for the New Covenant Scriptures which show the fulfilment & spiritual understanding of the Old.
And now you've lost me.
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
John, you said, "The presentation is not knowledge, wisdom, but the elements of such. That the listeners respond appropriately."

THANK YOU!

See, what you present is not knowledge or wisdom. That is exactly a summery of what I posted at the first response in the thread (if I recall correctly).

It is about time you agreed. :)


About the thinking that "All students cal learn equally:"

The philosophy "All students can learn equally" was a statement and policy by the superintendent of one of Texas' larger school districts quite a number of years ago.

Basic to his thinking was the consideration that ultimately the teachers were directly responsible for student success, irregardless of any intellectual, emotional, and character the students presented. That was reflective of the public demand of the education systems.

Accordingly he determined that, because the teachers have no actual control over any influence impacting the students, except that which takes place in their own classrooms, and even that is somewhat controlled by the demands of the assigned curricula, no matter how the students presented, they are to be taught, and not just equal distribution of teaching information, but to be taught in such a way as to be equally successful. For ultimately the public view was shown to be that success was the reason a teacher was hired.

This thinking was alarming in quite a few in educational quarters, yet when one steps from the trenches of academia thereby removing their own bias and considerations of what excuses are acceptable for limited student achievement, the goal can be rationally set at such a standard.

John,

When dealing with students at your school, what character flaw most often hinders them?

What do consider is the greatest aid in diminishing or extinguishing the hindrance?
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I state it quite differently. My goal as a Bible college prof is to teach the students to think. They are then equipped to discern truth and error.

Not a bad goal.

It also reflects that basic divide between what the general public holds and what teachers actually witness.

For example, a young person even to their mid teens may be tried for a crime. A thoughtless crime arising out of emotional influences, or peer pressure.

Yet, few are the students at even the graduate level who have mature thinking.

Psychologically,
"The frontal lobes of the brain which are responsible for high level reasoning and decision making aren’t fully mature until the early 20s, according to Deborah Yurgelun-Todd, a neuroscientist at Harvard’s Brain Imaging Center." ( The Marks of Maturity)​

Yet, typically we expect the college student to think as an adult, make adult decisions, consider the ramifications of issues as an adult, give them great freedom as an adult ...

Because of the "pruning" of the brain by the brain (see article above) the 11 - mid 20 year old, the typical college learner can actually have less capacity to learn then they had as a child.

There is also that aspect of "resistance" involved. Because by the very nature of the process there is a resistance to reorder facts and recognize healthy benefits related to education.
"Pressfield sets the stage by describing Resistance and its allies: self-doubt, procrastination, timidity, perfectionism, narcissism, our own intelligence and even friends and family. These are the powerful forces that are arrayed against us with whether we’re trying to build a business, create a work of art or achieve any worthwhile goal." Book by Pressfield cited in this article (DO THE WORK: Overcoming Resistance | Management Psychology Group)
To me what is interesting in the article is the "allies" one may engage to press back against the resistance. These are listed as "stupidity, stubbornness, and blind faith."


Now the question then comes, how might a teacher use these allied against resistance, to bring education to that student?

Because, ultimately, every teacher above the 4th grade level encounters the resistance and often resort to unhealthy interactions that merely reinforce the behavior and codes of the enemy called "resistance."

Amazing to me was how smart my own father had become after I reached 30. Somewhere he had gained much wisdom and understanding that he just didn't have when I was younger.

:)
 
Top