Education: Knowledge, Understanding, Wisdom

[agedman]

One of the positions of understanding in the trilogy, in which John opens the thread, is determining if they are to be taken as personification or as a noun such as a container that holds, "facts, information, and skills."

If one takes the trilogy more as representing a personification then such can be addressed as if it were indeed a person. Here is a portion of a poem, John would no doubt be very familiar, which uses Wisdom as a personification:

Wisdom of God
We would by Thee be taught
Control our minds
Direct our every thought
Knowledge alone
Life's problems cannot meet
We learn to live
While sitting at Thy feet
(Dr. Bob Jones, Jr.)
​

Originally the poem was some 34 verses long.

 

[agedman]

Nice try. I gave Scripture which specifically notes humans teaching knowledge to humans. I think I'll stick to Scripture on this.

Well, perhaps you gave Scripture, but as I recall (though I may be wrong) in each it was shown not human to human, but God able to manipulate the mind and heart, and, the encouragement by the writer to gain such (as knowledge and wisdom), by listening to (acquiring) instructions and understandings, and using (engaging) discernment.

That it was not the human presenter's presentation but the acquisition by the listener that was the focus and determiner of the Scriptures.

Do I need to go back and look at the Scriptures, again?

Probably.

 

[agedman]

What is knowledge?

From the Business Dictionary: Online Business Dictionary

1. General: Human faculty resulting from interpreted information; understanding that germinates from combination of data, information, experience, and individual interpretation. Variously defined as, "Things that are held to be true in a given context and that drive us to action if there were no impediments" (Andre Boudreau). "Capacity to act" (Karl Sweiby). "Justified true belief that increases an entity's capacity for effective action" (Nonaka and Takeuchi). "The perception of the agreement or disagreement of two ideas" (John Locke). In an organizational context, knowledge is the sum of what is known and resides in the intelligence and the competence of people.
In recent years, knowledge has come to be recognized as a factor of production (see knowledge capital) in its own right, and distinct from labor.
2. Law: Awareness or understanding of a circumstance or fact, gained through association or experience.​

One cannot teach knowledge, but all that their own knowledge contains.

Only God can manipulate the intellect and the heart. He endows wisdom and knowledge as He desires for His purpose. Such was exampled (Exodus 31) in Mosses being told exactly who appointed and given the wisdom and knowledge for a task.

 

[agedman]

While rereading the OP, it occurs to me that every verse listed is either a statement of God bestowing the knowledge, or such skill as to acquire knowledge.

These are from the OP:

Ex 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowletdge, and in all manner of workmanship,​

Pr 2:6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth [cometh] knowledge and understanding.​

Pr 2:10-11 When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul; Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee:

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Da 1:4 Children in whom [was] no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as [had] ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans.

Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard [it], do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

Eph 1:17-18 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints.​

So it remains as I pointed out in my earlier posts, humans do not teach knowledge.

They teach what they have acquired in their knowledge and in the teaching the students select what they desire for their knowledge.

 

[agedman]

John your definition of knowledge:

In my theology, knowledge consists of facts and their inter-relation, understanding is the ability to discern what those facts and their relationships mean, and wisdom is the ability to make the right choices in regards to those facts.​

Your own acknowledgement that YOUR knowledge is made up, does not warrant that your knowledge becomes that of the student.

The student’s knowledge is also “facts and their inter-relation, understanding is the ability to discern what those facts and their relationships mean, and wisdom is the ability to make the right choices in regards to those facts.”

You may take from your “facts and their inter-relation, understanding is the ability to discern what those facts and their relationships mean, and wisdom is the ability to make the right choices in regards to those facts.” And present them, but ultimately the authority of reception and integration remains that of the student.

​

 

[John of Japan]

Well, perhaps you gave Scripture, but as I recall (though I may be wrong) in each it was shown not human to human, but God able to manipulate the mind and heart, and, the encouragement by the writer to gain such (as knowledge and wisdom), by listening to (acquiring) instructions and understandings, and using (engaging) discernment.

That it was not the human presenter's presentation but the acquisition by the listener that was the focus and determiner of the Scriptures.

Do I need to go back and look at the Scriptures, again?

Probably.

Yes, you do need to go back and look. I specifically noted Scripture of a human ("the preacher") teaching a human (his son).

 

[John of Japan]

While rereading the OP, it occurs to me that every verse listed is either a statement of God bestowing the knowledge, or such skill as to acquire knowledge.

These are from the OP:

Ex 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowletdge, and in all manner of workmanship,​

Pr 2:6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth [cometh] knowledge and understanding.​

Pr 2:10-11 When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul; Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee:

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Da 1:4 Children in whom [was] no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as [had] ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans.

Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard [it], do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

Eph 1:17-18 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints.​

So it remains as I pointed out in my earlier posts, humans do not teach knowledge.

They teach what they have acquired in their knowledge and in the teaching the students select what they desire for their knowledge.

Sigh. You misunderstand again. Those Scriptures were simply intended to show that there is a trilogy of the mind, with knowledge, understanding, and wisdom, all three, occurring in those same passages. They were not intended to show how we get those three.

"Knowledge" occurs in 172 verses in the KJV. "Understanding" occurs in 156. "Wisdom" in 226. Giving a complete picture of these three words in the Bible is a complicated study which I urge on all readers. There is no way in the world that anywhere near a complete study can be done on a BB thread.

 

[agedman]

Sigh. You misunderstand again. Those Scriptures were simply intended to show that there is a trilogy of the mind, with knowledge, understanding, and wisdom, all three, occurring in those same passages. They were not intended to show how we get those three.

"Knowledge" occurs in 172 verses in the KJV. "Understanding" occurs in 156. "Wisdom" in 226. Giving a complete picture of these three words in the Bible is a complicated study which I urge on all readers. There is no way in the world that anywhere near a complete study can be done on a BB thread.

Which is part of why I made my opening remarks:

“Education is not to be looked upon as knowledge, for they are not the same and distinction is appropriately made in this thread.“​

When we rabbit trailed on your thinking you teach knowledge, it was missed that I actually agreed with the OP.


For a believer, all true wisdom and knowledge are a gift from God.

Colossians 2:

“....attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God’s mystery, that is, Christ Himself, 3in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.”​

This is part of the reason I stated:

“Folks may acquire an education but without knowledge such often bumble and stumble, often unaware or unwilling to acknowledge their own frailty, perhaps too proud to admit needing help.”
...
I personally have little time for the alphabet added to people's names unless there is also history of knowledge and wisdom, practical work experience to demonstrate that education is also coexisting with character and a strong work ethic.
​

John,

You and I agree on much, more than this thread would display.

Perhaps my opening remarks on the thread were a bit reactionary, and yet I have met so many that put authority in alphabet additions rather then true experiential knowledge and wisdom from God.

As you can tell, I do put value in education. But education without true knowledge of God, and practiced discernment is of very little value as it relates to the assemblies.

​

 

[John of Japan]

Which is part of why I made my opening remarks:

“Education is not to be looked upon as knowledge, for they are not the same and distinction is appropriately made in this thread.“​

When we rabbit trailed on your thinking you teach knowledge, it was missed that I actually agreed with the OP.

I'm glad you actually agreed with the OP. However, I have never said that education should be looked upon as knowledge, and do not think that they are synonyms.

For a believer, all true wisdom and knowledge are a gift from God.

Colossians 2:

“....attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God’s mystery, that is, Christ Himself, 3in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.”​

This is part of the reason I stated:

“Folks may acquire an education but without knowledge such often bumble and stumble, often unaware or unwilling to acknowledge their own frailty, perhaps too proud to admit needing help.”
...
I personally have little time for the alphabet added to people's names unless there is also history of knowledge and wisdom, practical work experience to demonstrate that education is also coexisting with character and a strong work ethic.​

I agree with this.

​

John,

You and I agree on much, more than this thread would display.

Perhaps my opening remarks on the thread were a bit reactionary, and yet I have met so many that put authority in alphabet additions rather then true experiential knowledge and wisdom from God.

Seeing my son get a top notch PhD from a leading Baptist seminary under a well know Greek scholar opened my eyes to some things. First of all, there are some wonderful Christians mentoring our Baptist PhD students. My son was mentored by David Alan Black, who wile being a leading Greek scholar is also a huge supporter of missions, traveling often to teach in China and Ethiopia (where his late wife grew up as a missionary kid). My son also took textual criticism from Maurice Robinson, one of the leading textual critics of our day and a wonderful Christian who deeply loves the Word of God. I've had some fellowship (not enough) with Dr. Black, and am proud to call Dr. Robinson a friend. My son and I both wrote essays on textual criticism for his festschrift.

Now, comparing the accredited PhD my son earned with what you can get on the Internet with a few hundred dollars and a few book reports--well, there is no comparison. My son not only received a top notch scholarly education (he even had to learn German and French for the degree to be able to read theology in those languages), he received great spiritual guidance. So, his level of knowledge and understanding is well above mine and I often consult him. Having the experience I have as a missionary may make me wiser in some disciplines such as missiology and translation studies, but his education--those alphabet letters after his name--is a vital resource for our school.

As you can tell, I do put value in education. But education without true knowledge of God, and practiced discernment is of very little value as it relates to the assemblies.

We agree.

​