eeeks, Paul Crouch..

[Marcia]

It's not just that Copeland and others are teaching heresy; they are hurting believers and unbelieves with deception and blasphemy. They are harming the Body of Christ. Christians should be weeping when the body of Christ is being attacked like this.

 

[LadyEagle]

Unfortunately, you cannot go by the Statement of Faith.

Reasonable people would stop there because that is what the question was about. The question was about their Doctrinal Statement. It was not about some of the teachers.

Reasonable people without some agenda to push would realize that it is an unfair to attack a whole denomination because of what some in that denomination do.

They are harming the Body of Christ. Christians should be weeping when the body of Christ is being attacked like this.

The Body of Christ is being attacked even by some members here and it does make me weep.

[ December 03, 2004, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: LadyEagle ]

 

[Marcia]

Why don't you weep for the people deceived by Copeland and other WF teachers?

Attacking false teachings is NOT attacking the body of Christ, LE. The WF teachers are attacking not only the body of Christ but Christ himself.

I posted all that so there is no confusion about what they teach and that it contradicts God's holy word.

 

[mickd7]

Marcia would you say a Christian that said Pentacostals are of the devil and tongues are of the devil and the Gifts of the Holy Ghost are from the devil, and they are preaching another Jesus would be correct!
I would not say the folks that say such things about other Christians are not Christian but I would say they are on shaky ground and dangerously close to attributing something from God as coming from the devil.
Same with Charismatics .They are not preaching another Jesus either but in some cases follow after false teaching just as some Baptist do, that I know about.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Marcia:
These quotes are not even half of the quotes on this one page.

Marcia, I'm not in any way defending the WoF movement, and as far as Kenneth Copland, I've got no use for the man. However, it's been my experience that the quotes as posted are nearly always taken out of the context they were delivered in. We need to know the context of the quotes, and, the resopnsibility for providing that lies with the one who posted the quotes in teh first place.

I'm wagering, however, that you never heard KC utter any of those words. Instead, you copied and pasted those from a site. Lacking the context, posting in that manner borders on gossip and rumor, imo.

 

[Marcia]

JohnV, people have heard the context. These teachings are well known and documented by dozens of people. I've talked to former WF people and they support what these others say (who use the quotes).

Yes, I've heard KC say some of those things. I think he puts most of them in his tapes beause it's his more ardent followers who buy those, but I"ve heard him say some of that stuff (and other WF teachers say some of their stuff).

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Fat Eagle:
Marcia would you say a Christian that said Pentacostals are of the devil and tongues are of the devil and the Gifts of the Holy Ghost are from the devil, and they are preaching another Jesus would be correct!
I would not say the folks that say such things about other Christians are not Christian but I would say they are on shaky ground and dangerously close to attributing something from God as coming from the devil.
Same with Charismatics .They are not preaching another Jesus either but in some cases follow after false teaching just as some Baptist do, that I know about.

This is not about speaking in tongues, charismatics, or the Gifts, Fat Eagle.

I never said charismatics are preaching another Jesus. We are discussing a specific movement.

 

[mickd7]

It is simple Marcia would you consider someone that teaches that tongues are for today, and all the Gifts of the Spirit are for today, and that we are to be baptized in the Holy Ghost after salvation, and that we receive santification after salvation and that healing of all diseases comes with salvation, are preaching a different Christ or are they just false teaching to your way of thinking!!!

 

[mickd7]

I ask that all Southern Baptist please drop by the polls section and give me some feedback. Thanks

 

[LorrieGrace]

I didn't see anything in the poll section about this subject? Where is it exactly and what is the title of the thread? Thanks

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Fat Eagle:
It is simple Marcia would you consider someone that teaches that tongues are for today, and all the Gifts of the Spirit are for today, and that we are to be baptized in the Holy Ghost after salvation, and that we receive santification after salvation and that healing of all diseases comes with salvation, are preaching a different Christ or are they just false teaching to your way of thinking!!!

1. Teaching that tongues are for today -- this is something Christians should not divide over; believers hold different views on this
2. Holy Ghost indwells believers the moment they trust in Christ
3. There is no biblical basis for believing that healing of all diseases comes with salvation; we are redeemed when we believe and sanctified as we grow but there is no promise of complete bodily healing -- we are still in fallen bodies. We do not have the completely healed body until we get our resurrected body.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Fat Eagle:
that healing of all diseases comes with salvation

Are all word-faith people going to live until the General Resurrection. Did Kenyon, the movements originator, die? Did Hagin die? Perhaps we are going back to the pre flood days!

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Marcia:
Unfortunately, you cannot go by the Statement of Faith. You can't stop there - you have to check out their tapes, books, and tv shows. It has been documented, over and over! I have a book full of quotes from WF teachers, each quote documented.

You quoted Joel Osteen. You realize, don't you, that Joel Osteen is not WoF, but Baptist?

 

[rsr]

His father, John, was originally ordained as a Southern Baptist, but Lakewood Church is nondenominational and charismatic, and WoF themes appear frequently in Joel's preaching.

 

[Johnv]

I stand corrected. John Osteen was a Bapsist minister, but Joel Osteen, his son, as far as I can tell, does not even have any formal training in the pastorate.

 

[mickd7]

The poll is titled for Southern Baptist only. Thanks

 

[mickd7]

I did not ask that Marcia. I asked you if people that teach and believe this would be considered teaching another Jesus or are just false teachings!

 

[Marcia]

Fat Eagle, I am not going to speak for other people who believe something I don't. I think you are asking about people who believe that speaking in tongues is "of the devil." Why are you asking me this since I don't believe that? Why don't ask someone who does believe that? This is off topic, anyway. Start another thread on it.

 

[Mapipe]

Anyone know anything about "God Digital" that is supposed to be coming to the states from Europe. In "AGainst All Odds" by Wendy Alec it tells about their challenges to open up Europe's First Daily Christian Television Network. They have a picture of praying with Benny Hinn, Ulf Ekman and Colin Dye for the dedication of the Europe Channel to God. Sounds like another Crouch TV station coming to the US soon. Anyone else heard of this. They are setting up shop somewhere around DC, I believe.

 

[mickd7]

Because Marcia you are the one so hopped up on folks like Copeland and charismatics been heretic and false teachers and teaching another Jesus.
So I just brought this back to you and asked if those folks that teach what I pro offered to you would be considered heretic and teaching a different Jesus. It stands to reason that if a Baptist believes this about Pentacostals and accepts them as Christian then you should accept Charismatics as Christians with false teachings and believe they are saved and not teaching another Jesus.