effectual call

[Ray Berrian]

Yelsew,

Your writing is always good, but must have been acutely keen on February 25th at 1:14 a.m.

I never though as you did about the part, ' . . . in Christ' referring how God chose us before the foundation of the world. In other words, we believe that God, and I say it very respectfully, did not draw names out of a hat for eternal bliss above.

 

[romanbear]

Hi everyone ;
Let me ask this; Why would Calvinist assume that a call from God is anything less than effectual?. Why do you assume that effectual is unconditional? Every call from God is effectual but it is not a call we can't resist. Jonah resisted. Proof that an effectual call can be resisted.
Romanbear

 

[Yelsew]

Originally posted by Bible-belted:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />The fact that sinful man would be redeemed was planned before the foundation of the world indicates that God knows who will accept his Only Son.

You obviously don't read the scripture you post.

According to Eph 1:4,5 we were CHOSEN in Christ before the foundation of the world. Chosen implies the wil of the one choosing, not the will of the one being chosen. Chosen is parallel to predestined in ths passage as well. So the predestination is based on God's choice. Verse 11 also makes this same point. </font>[/QUOTE]And you fail to grasp the implication of "before the foundation of the world"

 

[Yelsew]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Yelsew:
NO, if I come to believe in Jesus, it is not because I am of the elect, it is because I am of the convicted and persuaded. It was given unto me to believe what the Word of God says, and believe in the Son of God. Who gave that to me? God in the creation made man with the ability to believe, I exercised that ability and became a believer in Jesus, the Christ. He, himself convinced me that he is the Son of God, the Messiah. When then should I not believe in him?

I agree ... but you are convicted and persuaded becuase you are one of teh elect. You say that God gave man the ability to do this in creation but John 6:646-5 clearly says otherwise. The elect are convinced and they believe. </font>[/QUOTE]No I am not a Jew! Though it would not be a bad thing to be one of God's elect.

 

[Yelsew]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Yelsew,

Your writing is always good, but must have been acutely keen on February 25th at 1:14 a.m.

I never though as you did about the part, ' . . . in Christ' referring how God chose us before the foundation of the world. In other words, we believe that God, and I say it very respectfully, did not draw names out of a hat for eternal bliss above.

I may be misunderstanding your thought here. What I am saying is that we become the elect "in Christ" when we believe "in Christ" And that God includes in "the elect" all who will believe "in Christ". The elect from the foundation of the world are the Jews. The whole of the scriptures records that to be so.

 

[Ray Berrian]

Make no mistake about it, my brother, we do 'understand all the implications of the believers being chosen before the creation of the earth.' [Ephesians 1:4] God knows everything. But, to blatantly say that His election was and remains autocratic is going beyond Scripture. He knows the exact number of His elect, but this does not even hint that He sent the majority on the skids to Hell. In order to believe in 'Unconditional Election' a person has to reject and try to expunge all of the 'whosoever' found in the Gospel. This we will not do, because God's Judgment Seat of Christ is coming in the future when all of His people will be evaluated for all that we have said and done. [II Cor. 5:10 & 11a]

God has sovereignly ordained and or allowed the free agency of human beings. God ordained that Adam had the opportunity either to fail or not to Fall in the Garden. God knew that Adam would make the fateful choice and God ordained the Second Adam, meaning Christ, to make an escape for all persons [Romans 5:18] from the 'second death' [Rev. 20:14] through His Son, our Lord. The sinner only has to receive this 'free gift.' [Romans 5:18; Acts 16:31] in order to be numbered among the elect [Titus 1:1-2; I Peter 1:2; II John 1:1 & 13]

Foreknowledge has always been the ruling factor in the Divine Godhead. [Romans 8:29a and I Peter 1:2] God has always known the number of the elect but He never has or will 'strong arm' each of His self-ruling created beings into an alleged, pre-planned Divine manipulation.

 

[Yelsew]

We essentially agree, brother. But that doesn't make me Arminian. It simply indicates the we, Arminius, You and I are Christian.

Them Calvinists be Christian too, once they get off their chargers, and get out of their rigid suits of armor.

 

[Ray Berrian]

God tells us through the Apostle Paul in Galatians 6:16 that every 'new creation'[II Corinthians 5:17} born of the Spirit [Galatians 6:15 & Romans 8:16] has become 'the Israel of God.' [Galatians 6:16] We become the spiritual seed of Abraham as documented in Galatians 3:6-9 & Romans 4:5 & 5:16 e,f]

By faith we have become the Israel of God. [Galatians 6:16] If I remember correctly the name Israel means the equivilent of 'Prince with God.' If this is true then every Christian is a 'prince or a princess' in the eyes of God. Truly, we are a blessed people of God.