Eight Years of Iraq War Cost Less Than Stimulus Act

[Crabtownboy]

Being as Crabby's getting pummelled on this issue, I forecase about a 90% chance of an immenent CTB departure from this thread.

In your dreams. ROFL

But this thread does show how Jesus teachings are ignored by many ... or how they wish those teachings would go away.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Being as Crabby's getting pummelled on this issue, I forecase about a 90% chance of an immenent CTB departure from this thread.

In your dreams. ROFL

But this thread does show how Jesus teachings are ignored by many ... or how they wish those teachings would go away.

Jesus has not been called the "Prince of Peace" for nothing. I can't help it that many who say they are fundamental or conservative and criticize those they consider liberal as being secular place so much of their trust in the secular government and military instead of Christ.

 

[targus]

We are all on a spiritual journey SAG. And, as on a journey, there are new discoveries to be made, new insights to become aware of ... and these discoveries may well mean we have to give up what we once believed were truths.

Sounds like a line from "Kung fu".

This grasshopper thanks you, master, for sharing your wisdom.

 

[targus]

In your dreams. ROFL

But this thread does show how Jesus teachings are ignored by many ... or how they wish those teachings would go away.

Jesus has not been called the "Prince of Peace" for nothing. I can't help it that many who say they are fundamental or conservative and criticize those they consider liberal as being secular place so much of their trust in the secular government and military instead of Christ.

How do you reconcile that with your belief that WWII was just?

 

[Crabtownboy]

How do you reconcile that with your belief that WWII was just?

Do some study on the Just War Theory and I believe you will agree. It is difficult. But of all the wars in my lifetime I believe WW II surely comes closest to meeting the requirements of a just war. I was not alive when WW I took place but I do not believe it meets the criteria for being justified. Europe and thus the world stumbled into that one for no compelling, justifiable reasons.

 

[RAdam]

Jesus isn't the Prince of Peace because He is a pacifist.

Jesus is the only source of peace on this planet. Man tries so hard for peace, but the fact is there will always be wars and rumors of wars. Jesus alone will bring peace. How will He do it? By destroying all His enemies.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Do some study on the Just War Theory and I believe you will agree. It is difficult. But of all the wars in my lifetime I believe WW II surely comes closest to meeting the requirements of a just war. I was not alive when WW I took place but I do not believe it meets the criteria for being justified. Europe and thus the world stumbled into that one for no compelling, justifiable reasons.

You dodged the issue. You seem to be saying Christ is against all war, so we sghould be against all war, but yet some are justified. Kind of voting "present", aren't you ?

 

[billwald]

We don't live in a perfect world. Imperfection requires compromise but the compromise should be minimized. For example, the Acts 2 Jerusalem Synod sold excess property and gave it to the poor. Several chapters later the Jerusalem Church was begging Paul to collect money to bail them out. Everyone can't give away everything. It doesn't compute.

Sun Su (sp?) taught that the most successful war is the war not fought. 911 hurt our pride and we started two wars because of our pride, NOT to protect our borders. There were MUCH cheaper ways to protect our country. We wanted to kill bad guys, not protect the US.

 

[targus]

Do some study on the Just War Theory and I believe you will agree. It is difficult. But of all the wars in my lifetime I believe WW II surely comes closest to meeting the requirements of a just war. I was not alive when WW I took place but I do not believe it meets the criteria for being justified. Europe and thus the world stumbled into that one for no compelling, justifiable reasons.

Please show me where Jesus ever advocated a "just war" doctrine.

 

[rbell]

But this thread does show how Jesus teachings are ignored by many ... or how they wish those teachings would go away.

Jesus has not been called the "Prince of Peace" for nothing. I can't help it that many who say they are fundamental or conservative and criticize those they consider liberal as being secular place so much of their trust in the secular government and military instead of Christ.

Wow...if condescension is a spritual gift, you're pretty loaded up...

How do you reconcile that with your belief that WWII was just?

Do some study on the Just War Theory and I believe you will agree. It is difficult. But of all the wars in my lifetime I believe WW II surely comes closest to meeting the requirements of a just war. I was not alive when WW I took place but I do not believe it meets the criteria for being justified. Europe and thus the world stumbled into that one for no compelling, justifiable reasons.

You still didn't answer the question. You've stated two viewpoints that are in opposition to one another.

 

[FR7 Baptist]

Please show me where Jesus ever advocated a "just war" doctrine.

What's your alternative?

 

[Crabtownboy]

Please show me where Jesus ever advocated a "just war" doctrine.

As another ask, "What is your alternative?"

Do you believe Christ approved of war? Where is your proof.

Perhaps, in Christ, no war can be justified. Certainly a war like the one in Iraq cannot be justified in Christ. In secular terms you may, but that is secular, not in Christ.

If any war in my lifetime was justified it was WW II. If it was not justified, then no war is ever justified.

 

[FR7 Baptist]

As another ask, "What is your alternative?"

Do you believe Christ approved of war? Where is your proof.

Perhaps, in Christ, no war can be justified. Certainly a war like the one in Iraq cannot be justified in Christ. In secular terms you may, but that is secular, not in Christ.

If any war in my lifetime was justified it was WW II. If it was not justified, then no war is ever justified.

I agree that WW II was justified because we were attacked by Japan. Really, the only two options I see as being possibly moral are Just War Theory or outright pacifism. I believe in JWT because I see it as an extension of one's right to personal self-defense.

 

[rbell]

As another ask, "What is your alternative?"

Do you believe Christ approved of war? Where is your proof.

Perhaps, in Christ, no war can be justified. Certainly a war like the one in Iraq cannot be justified in Christ. In secular terms you may, but that is secular, not in Christ.

If any war in my lifetime was justified it was WW II. If it was not justified, then no war is ever justified.

Wow. Pick a view, will ya? Two polar opposites can't be true.

I find it funny that you can propose two incongruent viewpoints, but then manage to lecture us about our incorrect views.

That there's funny.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Wow. Pick a view, will ya? Two polar opposites can't be true.

I find it funny that you can propose two incongruent viewpoints, but then manage to lecture us about our incorrect views.

That there's funny.

There are three possibilities:

1. All wars are justified
2. Some wars are justified
3. No war is ever justified.

Which one is your belief?
Which one do you believe Christ believed?

 

[blackbird]

There are three possibilities:

1. All wars are justified
2. Some wars are justified
3. No war is ever justified.

Which one is your belief?
Which one do you believe Christ believed?

There IS one war yet to be fought----somewhere off in the future----a meeting place at Meggedo Valley---In which the Lord Jesus will show up with a sword that is unsheathed!!! A perfect example of a justifiable war!!

 

[Tom Bryant]

There IS one war yet to be fought----somewhere off in the future----a meeting place at Meggedo Valley---In which the Lord Jesus will show up with a sword that is unsheathed!!! A perfect example of a justifiable war!!

There are of course, lots of other examples. The wars that Israel were commanded by God to fight in the Old Testament.

But there is also the example of Christ driving the money changers out of the temple by physical force: the whip of cords.

There is the example of Paul's commands that the state has the right to use the sword.

There is Jesus refusal to command the Roman soldiers to quit their service and only to tell them not to use thier position to coerce civilians and to be content with their wages.

 

[targus]

There are three possibilities:

1. All wars are justified
2. Some wars are justified
3. No war is ever justified.

Which one is your belief?
Which one do you believe Christ believed?

Your arguements are at cross purposes.

You demanded to know where Jesus ever advocated war.

Then you said that war can be justified.

So please stick to your original line of arguement and show us where Jesus ever advocated the concept of a just war.

Hold yourself to the standard that you hold everyone else to.

You can't have it both ways.

 

[RAdam]

I don't know which one Jesus believed and neither do you. The reason is, He never took a position on this.

Some people want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to use the words of Jesus to condemn war, even though Jesus never did. Then they want to turn around and argue for something Jesus never approved, the just war theory. You can't have it both ways. If you want to argue against war (mis)using Jesus' words, you cannot argue for a just war using Jesus.

The fact is, Jesus remained silent on the issue of how a government should handle war. He never advocated militarism, pacifism, or a just war doctrine.

 

[rbell]

There are three possibilities:

1. All wars are justified
2. Some wars are justified
3. No war is ever justified.

Which one is your belief?
Which one do you believe Christ believed?

Which one is your belief? 2
Which one do you believe Christ believed?

Which one is your belief?
Which one do you believe Christ believed? He spoke of peace--and also that he came to bring a sword. IMO He did not preach 1 or 3.