Elect or Non-elect?

[Pastor_Bob]

Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. (KJV)

Are those individuals that Jesus references here elect or non-elect?

 

[Reformed]

Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. (KJV)

Are those individuals that Jesus references here elect or non-elect?

Good morning, Bob.

Anyone who dies in their sins is not elect. I answer your question this way because God's calling is according to His timing and not ours. For instance, "Joe" may hear the Gospel today and reject it, but he may hear it again 10 years from now and believe. How can that be? Because when Joe first heard it, it was not accompanied by faith, whereas 10 years later it was. From the Monergist standpoint, faith is part of the gift of God (Eph. 2:8-9), made possible by regeneration.

As to the specific text you quoted, it is part of a parable that teaches two things about the Gospel: A) It is the means of salvation B) It bears fruit. It really is not a proof-text for the Monergist or Synergist view of election, since that is not the purpose of the passage. Both sides can see their view in Luke 8:4-15.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

This passage reminds me that the devil is a powerful spiritual force. The devil had his way with me for a number of years after I accepted Christ as my savior. Shortly after I accepted Christ, I was deployed to Japan and lived a life of debauchery until one morning walking across the parking lot to my office I cried out to God telling Him that if He was there, I needed Him. I never looked back longing for those days, but I did stumble along the way for a while after that. That occurred in 1965. Praise be to God!

Psa 40:2 KJV - He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, [and] established my goings.

 

[jeremiah1five]

This passage reminds me that the devil is a powerful spiritual force. The devil had his way with me for a number of years after I accepted Christ as my savior. Shortly after I accepted Christ, I was deployed to Japan and lived a life of debauchery until one morning walking across the parking lot to my office I cried out to God telling Him that if He was there, I needed Him. I never looked back longing for those days, but I did stumble along the way for a while after that. That occurred in 1965. Praise be to God!

Psa 40:2 KJV - He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, [and] established my goings.

Lucifer/Devil is STILL an obedient servant of God.

Whatever you were and whatever you did was YOU. Not the "devil."

You.

Sadly, your statement is typical of a great many Christians who give way TOO MUCH power and glory to a cherub who at one time guarded holy earthly things.

This angel, this cherub, is still an obedient servant of God.

"The devil made me do it" is a cop-out. (no apologies for my boldness)

And thank you for your service, soldier. God bless and keep ALL our military and armed forces throughout the world!
Amen.

 

[loDebar]

Lucifer/Devil is STILL an obedient servant of God.

Whatever you were and whatever you did was YOU. Not the "devil."

You.

Sadly, your statement is typical of a great many Christians who give way TOO MUCH power and glory to a cherub who at one time guarded holy earthly things.

This angel, this cherub, is still an obedient servant of God.

"The devil made me do it" is a cop-out. (no apologies for my boldness)

And thank you for your service, soldier. God bless and keep ALL our military and armed forces throughout the world!
Amen.

Don't we give too much blame ti Adam as well, accusing him of giving us an inherited sin nature.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Don't we give too much blame ti Adam as well, accusing him of giving us an inherited sin nature.

I don't accuse Adam of anything. Others may. Others might. Others do.
God created man/Adam sin-ful but I don't blame God for this.
Everything - good and evil - in creation is the result of God. But I don't blame God.
Do you not have every right to do as you choose with what belongs to you?
Can the clay say to the potter, "Why have you made me thus?"

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Lucifer/Devil is STILL an obedient servant of God.

Whatever you were and whatever you did was YOU. Not the "devil."

You.

Sadly, your statement is typical of a great many Christians who give way TOO MUCH power and glory to a cherub who at one time guarded holy earthly things.

This angel, this cherub, is still an obedient servant of God.

"The devil made me do it" is a cop-out. (no apologies for my boldness)

And thank you for your service, soldier. God bless and keep ALL our military and armed forces throughout the world!
Amen.

Without the Grace of God applied to me, I defiantly would be held accountable for my sins, not the Devil. Thanks be to God for His love for me.

 

[HankD]

I don't accuse Adam of anything. Others may. Others might. Others do.
God created man/Adam sin-ful but I don't blame God for this.
Everything - good and evil - in creation is the result of God. But I don't blame God.
Do you not have every right to do as you choose with what belongs to you?
Can the clay say to the potter, "Why have you made me thus?"

Be careful j1five - You may be in for a "fiery trial".

Take it from one who knows - (and for sure, several others here on the BB).

You seem like a "young" Christian riding in on a white horse.

In your own words (no apologies for my boldness).

 

[jeremiah1five]

Be careful j1five - You may be in for a "fiery trial".

Take it from one who knows - (and for sure, several others here on the BB).

You seem like a "young" Christian riding in on a white horse.

In your own words (no apologies for my boldness).

HankD, what may come because I speak the truth will come. I am not unfamiliar with persecution - even from brethren, or so-called brethren. They are the ones that oppose me and my Lord the most.

I believe I replied in the correct forum. I am not on that Baptist Board.

Thanks. But we'll see in according to your words whether or not you are your brother's keeper.

 

[HankD]

HankD, what may come because I speak the truth will come. I am not unfamiliar with persecution - even from brethren, or so-called brethren. They are the ones that oppose me and my Lord the most.

I believe I replied in the correct forum. I am not on that Baptist Board.

Thanks. But we'll see in according to your words whether or not you are your brother's keeper.

Hmm, there is only one individual in the scripture that ever questioned anybody as to being their brother's keeper.

You continue to confirm my my sense of discernment that you are perhaps one of those who come proclaiming the truth, don't find many takers - except perhaps those like my self who might engage you except for the innuendo.

Then they are gone in a season.

We shall see.

 

[TCassidy]

We shall see.

Yes, we shall.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Hmm, there is only one individual in the scripture that ever questioned anybody as to being their brother's keeper.

You continue to confirm my my sense of discernment that you are perhaps one of those who come proclaiming the truth, don't find many takers - except perhaps those like my self who might engage you except for the innuendo.

Then they are gone in a season.

We shall see.

You're the one responding. Where do you get the "we" from?
I don't think nor believe you have discernment. Discernment is based on knowledge of Scripture, and if you take issue to my comment which is Biblical then there's a breach there.

And the answer that Cain should have given is a resounding "YES!"

By the way, I hold Cain is "kept" as the other saints in the OT. But that's another thread.
So, you call me names "childlike" and now you threaten me.
Good "Christian."
Now I suspect you'll hit the snitch-button." You see, I don't "drop dimes" (when we had pay phones) on my brethren. I don't tell on them, I don't attack them, I don't call them names, I don't do any of those things the world does to their own.
Judas snitched on Jesus.
Or do I have to submit a thread on that, also.
This is not a response you are giving to my comment. You instead go personal on me and make threats.
I'm not interested.
Take that behavior to the world where it belongs.

 

[kyredneck]

Anyone who dies in their sins is not elect.

Wow. And you say it with such authority. How do such characters as Solomon, Ananias and Sapphira, those in 1 Corinthians 11:30, etc., fit into your judgement?

 

[Yeshua1]

Lucifer/Devil is STILL an obedient servant of God.

Whatever you were and whatever you did was YOU. Not the "devil."

You.

Sadly, your statement is typical of a great many Christians who give way TOO MUCH power and glory to a cherub who at one time guarded holy earthly things.

This angel, this cherub, is still an obedient servant of God.

"The devil made me do it" is a cop-out. (no apologies for my boldness)

And thank you for your service, soldier. God bless and keep ALL our military and armed forces throughout the world!
Amen.

Satan greatest power is in His words and deminic theology that he has managed to get within the Church, Health and Wealth, Charsmatic Chaos, evolution, alternate lifestyles etc!

 

[HankD]

You're the one responding. Where do you get the "we" from?
I don't think nor believe you have discernment. Discernment is based on knowledge of Scripture, and if you take issue to my comment which is Biblical then there's a breach there.

And the answer that Cain should have given is a resounding "YES!"

By the way, I hold Cain is "kept" as the other saints in the OT. But that's another thread.
So, you call me names "childlike" and now you threaten me.
Good "Christian."
Now I suspect you'll hit the snitch-button." You see, I don't "drop dimes" (when we had pay phones) on my brethren. I don't tell on them, I don't attack them, I don't call them names, I don't do any of those things the world does to their own.
Judas snitched on Jesus.
Or do I have to submit a thread on that, also.
This is not a response you are giving to my comment. You instead go personal on me and make threats.
I'm not interested.
Take that behavior to the world where it belongs.

More confirmation.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Satan greatest power is in His words and deminic theology that he has managed to get within the Church, Health and Wealth, Charsmatic Chaos, evolution, alternate lifestyles etc!

What would you say if I told you man is satan?
Even the born-again Christian can be satan of God.

 

[kyredneck]

Even the born-again Christian can be satan of God.

...yes:

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jonah: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father who is in heaven.
22 And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall never be unto thee.
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art a stumbling-block unto me: for thou mindest not the things of God, but the things of men. Mt 16

 

[jeremiah1five]

...yes:

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jonah: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father who is in heaven.
22 And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall never be unto thee.
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art a stumbling-block unto me: for thou mindest not the things of God, but the things of men. Mt 16

Excellent.
Satan: Greek "adversary."
- Strong's.
When we oppose God through ignorance or full-blown disobedience we are in opposition to God and 'adversary.'

 

[Revmitchell]

Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. (KJV)

Are those individuals that Jesus references here elect or non-elect?

If the non-elect (as calvies define it) are born blind and cannot under any circumstances understand the word unless God first regenerates them, then why would Satan need to take away the word? Why should he bother?

I reject total depravity. It is not biblical. I do hold to human depravity. We are all depraved and like He did with Adam and Eve in the garden after they sinned and hid themselves, God pursues us. He does this with the gospel which has the power to save.

I believe the gospel has the power in and of itself to convert the lost sinner to faith in God without and extra measure of grace from God (regeneration). In other words I believe the gospel is sufficient. If God must add something to the gospel then it is not sufficient.

Why does god allow Satan to take away the belief in the gospel? Scripture doesn't describe the why. We do know it happens.

One is not elect until they are saved or "in Him". God early on that all those who believe on Him would be saved. The plan, the means, the authority, and power to save men's souls was established from the foundation of the world.

 

[TCassidy]

If the non-elect (as calvies define it) are born blind and cannot under any circumstances understand the word unless God first regenerates them,

When you start with a false premise you will always arrive at a false conclusion.