"Election"

The free willer puts the cart before the horse, imagining that man causes God...

"But God..."

 

My question for you is, why would you think that I would entertain a non-biblical idea. We are not justified in eternity past. As for an insult, your the one that put him up as some authority rather than the bible.

 

Rather the bible before your philosophy.

 

There in lays your problem Ken. You have misread the bible and so your theology is wrong.

 

That is one of the clearest explanations of predestination that I've ever read. Thank you for including the PDF, and thank Brother Parker for me.

 

I appreciate the freedom to join in. I've encountered some who were offended when I "butted in" to a discussion, so I try to make sure it's okay with the other participants.

My point with the passages from John and 1 John was to show that we are Christians before we are Calvinists, Armenians, etc. This was to answer your comment that the Calvinist has to "hope that God picked us as we have zero way of knowing that He did". Regarding whether we are saved before the foundation of the world, I believe what Brother @KenH posted from his friend Brother Bill Parker. Parker's last paragraph is especially enlightening - especially "eternal justification does not mean that God’s elect “have always been saved” in the sense of never having been lost in their sins".

This is not trusting a man's view over Scripture, but trusting one view over another. Scripture is the final authority, but we disagree over interpretation. As Joseph Bianchi wrote in "God Chose to Save", "The nexus of the issue is God's control of the universe. Will things take place in the span of time and space that God cannot control? Should we believe that God chooses not to control certain things? If we say yes to either of these statements we run the risk of believing in a 'god' who is not fully in control, and who allows creatures to take the helm."

Ephesians 1:4-5 is straightforward as to the meaning. In one sense we are saved "in time", in that one day I was lost in my sins and the next day I am saved. This is not just about foreknowledge, but according to God's will and purpose.

 

Great theology and bluegrass to boot. It just doesn't get any better. I've bookmarked that website as well. Thanks for sharing.

 

Why would I provide an argument against what you just posted as that is biblical. My arguments is against Calvinism and the way that it distorts the bible.

 

Unfortunately, this is where you and I part company.. The elect were elect in His sight before the world began, but not justified.. Isaiah 12:1. 'And in that day, you will say, "O LORD, I will praise You; though you were angry with me, Your anger is turned away, and You comfort me."'
'That day' is obviously the day of our Lord Jesus Christ (11:1, 10). We remain under God's judicial wrath until such time as He saves us through the preaching of the word (1 Corinthians 1:21) and the New Birth (Titus 3:4-7).

 

Thtt is fair comment. However, if I may give my reasons for my preference, it is that Justification from Eternity seems to do away with preaching. Why would we bid people to repent and believe if they are already justified? 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.' Not, 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ because you have already been saved.'

 

That just shows me that you really do read what I post. I have made a number of arguments against your theology. You just do not like what the bible says so you ignore the scriptures that I post.

You deny what the bible says and then claim that no one understands your Calvinism or whatever you want to call your view. What it is is not biblical.