Elevation of women in the church and in society

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

And, praise God, this is the same kind of marriage that Ron and I have had. If he had to, I would agree to it, but we are in such agreement, he's never had to.

I guess that explains it. If it came right down to it I am sure that Mary would "obey" if I had to "issue orders" but thats not how we work here. We are a team. Am I head? Sure I am. But there has to be a neck to move the head . Uh, I mean support the head .

My wife said I could say that .

 

[christianyouth]

This judgemental spirit is shocking for anyone, even more so from a teenager.

You cannot call a person rebellious based on their comments and make a harsh statement like "I don't think Christianity is the right religion for you."

Its all about balance folks. The Bible says a wife must be a keeper at home, that is clear and there is no way around that. To fail in that role is sin.

Being in submission is not as clear.(starting to flounder) I don't think a woman needs permission to get a job and I think it is wrong for the husband to say, "She'll get a job if a I let her." It is obvious, CY, that you are not in the real world yet. Husbands love their wives as Christ loves the church. He loved the church so much that He freed it from bondage to the law. There is liberty in His love. Wives must submit to their husbands, no doubt about that. But is goes both ways. A woman would be a fool to go against her husbands express desire and take a job that he does not want her to take. A husband would be a fool not to listen in love and give wise consideration to her request. Then they come to an agreement. I have been married almost 30 years (Jan 21 1978). I thought I knew all about the home when I got married. My wife was going to submit to me bless God and I'd better not get any lip. I didn't know then how to love my wife. Christ' love for the church is not the "She'll get a job if I tell her she can have one" kind of love, but a love that sets me free to enjoy His love. I try to love my wife the same way. Do I fail, of course, but she has stuck with me for 30 years. We are one. We act and we function as one. Neither one of us goes against the others express wishes.

Yes, feminisation had hurt western society as women have forgotten how to wife and mother. But, if a woman can be a keeper at home and has worked out with he husband their respective roles in the Biblical boundaries than no one has a right to use words like "rebellious" or even "woman hater" based on their actions.

C4K, people who twist scripture to fit their agenda DESERVE to be judged. When someone embraces the egalitarian view of marriage, they do so with NO biblical evidence. As I have cited earlier, even a cursory examination of the Bible establishes 'gender roles'. Don't believe me? Then why do so many skeptics of Christianity attack it on the basis of it being founded on a sexist, patriarchal book? They see the glaring examples of sexism ALL through the Bible. From Solomon's harem, to the OT accounts of women being given in marriage via arranged marriages, almost like 'purchasing' a wife, to the very civil Law that God established for Israel, to even the NT of Paul telling the woman to be silent in the church, to saying that they should cover their heads (a sign of submission), etc.

I'll take the Bible for my authority over 'life experience', thank you.

We are a team.

Is Christ and the Church a team?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

You are looking at Scripture through the eyes of a teenager who doesn't have a clue. No one is denying "gender roles." If you would take the time to read through all of the posts you would see a biblical playing out of the whole body of scripture. There is no need to have a tyrant in the home when husband wife love and respect each other.

Don't worry, it will all fall into place for you as you learn to apply the word of God to real life. I am saddened for you that in a single parent home you are not seeing the a Biblical pattern in real life. The Bible and real life go hand in hand, they are not mutually exclusive.

Read about the "perfect Bible woman" in Proverbs 31 and will find out that she functioned well outside of the home as well as inside the home.

You are striving to let no man despise your youth, but I you are not being the example in word and in charity that you are first challenged to be.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Is Christ and the Church a team?

Of course - " I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

I live and Christ lives in me. He is the head of the church, we are the body.

 

[Rufus_1611]

C4K, people who twist scripture to fit their agenda DESERVE to be judged. When someone embraces the egalitarian view of marriage, they do so with NO biblical evidence. As I have cited earlier, even a cursory examination of the Bible establishes 'gender roles'. Don't believe me? Then why do so many skeptics of Christianity attack it on the basis of it being founded on a sexist, patriarchal book? They see the glaring examples of sexism ALL through the Bible. From Solomon's harem, to the OT accounts of women being given in marriage via arranged marriages, almost like 'purchasing' a wife, to the very civil Law that God established for Israel, to even the NT of Paul telling the woman to be silent in the church, to saying that they should cover their heads (a sign of submission), etc.

I'll take the Bible for my authority over 'life experience', thank you.



Is Christ and the Church a team?

Preach that CY!

The Holy God of the Holy Bible is a male chauvinist by today's standards.

More scripture...

"For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement." - 1 Peter 3:5-6​

SUBJECTION, n.

1. The act of subduing; the act of vanquishing and bringing under the dominion of another.

2. The state of being under the power, control and government of another.
... (Source: Websters 1828)

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I don't think anyone is arguing these scriptures, just the application of them. My wife is in subjection, but I love her and am not going to subject to things which she can not willingly go along with.

I am glad that Christ gives me more liberty than some of you guys want men to give their wives.

 

[Rufus_1611]

You are looking at Scripture through the eyes of a teenager who doesn't have a clue. No one is denying "gender roles." If you would take the time to read through all of the posts you would see a biblical playing out of the whole body of scripture. There is no need to have a tyrant in the home when husband wife love and respect each other.

Don't worry, it will all fall into place for you as you learn to apply the word of God to real life. I am saddened for you that in a single parent home you are not seeing the a Biblical pattern in real life. The Bible and real life go hand in hand, they are not mutually exclusive.

This is just bad form. You folks are dwelling on his age as though he's in junior high or something. He's a man and he's got an argument based on Bible that ya'll are not defending against. MP was speaking in rebellion (there I'm 35 talk about my youth). Dale's wife did need his blessing for her to work and anyone who says otherwise is rebellion against the word of God for the man is the head of the woman...he's in charge. He will be held accountable if he messes up that leadership and she will be held accountable for not being in subjection. God is the head of Christ, Christ is the head of man and man is the head of the woman. That's the Biblical model.

Read about the "perfect Bible woman" in Proverbs 31 and will find out that she functioned well outside of the home as well as inside the home.

She sure did, but no wear does it say she was not in subjection to her husband. If her husband told her he didn't want her doing that then her next response (if she was Godly and in subjection) would be yes sir, or yes lord if she was like Sara.

You are striving to let no man despise your youth, but I you are not being the example in word and in charity that you are first challenged to be.

 

[Rufus_1611]

I don't think anyone is arguing these scriptures, just the application of them. My wife is in subjection, but I love her and am not going to subject to things which she can not willingly go along with.

You are contradicting yourself in the same sentence. Your wife is in subjection but only for those things she's willing to go along with. Thus, it is her will that is in charge, according to your statement, not yours.

I am glad that Christ gives me more liberty than some of you guys want men to give their wives.

There is liberty in obedience, for all parties.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

It looks like you guys are only reading part of the posts. I think, at least nearly everyone, agrees with the Bible teaching of the husband being the head of the home. It is just the attitude expressed that is a concern. A loving husband sees his wife's needs and desires and does not impose some kind of tyranical "I am the boss" attitude.

Read all of the posts folks, not just that parts you want to be critical of.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I'll tell you what. We are not going to agree on this application of Scripture.

I am totally at peace with my wife and God for our mutual application of the word of God in our lives. 30 wonderful years speak volumes. I am happy with the model we have set for our six kids and am thrilled at the adults they have become and are becoming.

If that makes me a rebellious. scripture denying, wimp of a man so be it.

Go ahead fellas, show them women who's the boss.

 

[Rufus_1611]

It looks like you guys are only reading part of the posts. I think, at least nearly everyone, agrees with the Bible teaching of the husband being the head of the home. It is just the attitude expressed that is a concern. A loving husband sees his wife's needs and desires and does not impose some kind of tyranical "I am the boss" attitude.

Read all of the posts folks, not just that parts you want to be critical of.

I read them and re-read them. Dale-C said his wife had his full blessings to work that part time job, MP said she didn't need his blessing and that he should go to Saudi Arabia or something like that, CY said MP was rebellious to say such things and then multiple people cracked on CY for being a teenager and not having experience and he doesn't have a clue.

If the issue is about attitude, sure a husband should be humble and should care and love on his wife.

If the issue is about role, the wife should be in subjection and the husband is in fact "the boss" aka head of the house.

 

[Rufus_1611]

I'll tell you what. We are not going to agree on this application of Scripture.

I am totally at peace with my wife and God for our mutual application of the word of God in our lives. 30 wonderful years speak volumes. I am happy with the model we have set for our six kids and am thrilled at the adults they have become and are becoming.

If that makes me a rebellious. scripture denying, wimp of a man so be it.

Go ahead fellas, show them women who's the boss.

Praise God! It sounds like you have your house in order.

 

[Cutter]

Good man - those who agree with you win the debate

If you reread my post you will see that I agree with them more for the biblical support their position has. Since I agree with the Bible I agree with them.

Another thing, why when someone accepts the biblical standard for the structure of society and the home are they referred to as a tyrant. You have no idea how well I treat my wife. The same gospel that places a man as head of the household also states that a man should love his wife as Christ loved the church. How much was that? I think you know.

 

[Sopranette]

Scarlet...you are too much! Hee heee heee!
As for weakening the national defense, I know that THIS DUW is a great shot using everything from a .357 to a compound bow. My DH taught me. Thank God he is not a DUM (dang uppity misogynist).

Sopranette

 

[Hopeful]

Okay, I'm going to throw a question into this ring, because it deals with the OP subject matter. Please understand that this is a SERIOUS question. I am asking it in all humility as a female who wishes to appear neither argumentative nor as if I am trying to have authority over you or instruct you, for any that might be offended by an effort of that nature. I am truly asking your opinion, from a Scriptural standpoint, where I stand now.

I was widowed a few months back. As a result, I have moved back to my home town and returned to a job I held previously for over 20 years. (I left the job only to move my dying husband close to "his side" of the family in his last months.) This job involves working with ALL men (who have always treated me like a sister or daughter)--almost all Christian, at that. I was all but "begged" to come back to work here after my hubby's death; so, obviously, these men want me here. Here are my questions that I will greatly appreciate your answer to:

1) As a widow, am I to be "in submission" to anyone, save the Lord? I am in charge of my own household and have "earthly" responsibilities to or for no one else.

2) I will be promoted into a position fairly soon here that will actually put me in a role of "some authority" over several of these men, when my current boss retires. This was known at the time I was asked back here, and is actually part of the reason WHY I was asked back here, because the company president knows that I am the most qualified, experienced, and capable for the position. In regards to the OP, do you believe the Scriptures teach that this would be wrong for me to do?

Again, I ask this with genuine humility and from a desire to understand this from a Biblical perspective. I have searched some--as a result of this BB thread-- and can find no Scripture that deals with this expressly.

Thank you for answering me, all who will. :wavey:

 

[ShotGunWillie]

Could discussing Hilary be included in this thread? I didn't read everything, but wondering if that was something the OP was referring to as well. Maybe I need to reread the OP.

 

[Jim1999]

Hopeful, in my opinion, you are a free spirit and free to do what is best for your livilihood, within the confines of the moral values taught in the scriptures.

The scriptures are the story of redemption from beginning to end. Along the way they also deposit moral values by which we live.

There are local customs, and that is all they are. Relevant to the people of that time, and they do not address this century.

Paul addresses the question about women learning in silence and subjection, but he is again addressing a local situation that was creating problems in the local churches. It has nothing to do with current status.

The so-called Lord's prayer is in the Bible, but we are not called upon to religiously recite those words as prayer. It is a model prayer. The same is true of certain teachings. They are guidelines and not rules.

In Canada, it took five brave women and an Act of Parliament about 1918, to have women declared a person. Imagine that. Someone finally woke up and faced reality.

The same is true in your situation, and God bless you for taking advantage of a good opportunity. The men in your field of labour do not object to you leading them in business. Why should you?

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Hopeful]

Thank you, Jim1999, for such a thoughtful post.

Of one thing I am SURE--God has carried me through a blessed marriage, the painful illness and loss of the only man I ever loved, and He alone has brought me back exactly where I am. Of this, there is NO doubt in anyone's mind, because only God Himself could have provided these particular circumstances.

 

[Dale-c]

1) As a widow, am I to be "in submission" to anyone, save the Lord? I am in charge of my own household and have "earthly" responsibilities to or for no one else.

I am not sure who it would be, but perhaps God would send along a loving man to marry you, if not I don't see why you would be, however you should be under the protection of the local church at least to some degree.
I believe the local church would also be responsible for your welfare, though since God has blessed you will a good job that should not be needed.

2) I will be promoted into a position fairly soon here that will actually put me in a role of "some authority" over several of these men, when my current boss retires. This was known at the time I was asked back here, and is actually part of the reason WHY I was asked back here, because the company president knows that I am the most qualified, experienced, and capable for the position. In regards to the OP, do you believe the Scriptures teach that this would be wrong for me to do?

I personally would be uncomfortable working with a female supervisor.
I think it is a legitimate concern that you have and I think you should prayerfully consider that.
I am not sure what to tell you.

But I will keep you in prayer!
I sincerely mean that because I am NOT a woman hater!

God bless you and give you wisdom.

DC

 

[Hopeful]

Thank you , Dale-C for you honest and kind response, as well. I believe you are not a woman-hater!

One bit of guidance from Scripture that I have always tried to follow is this; regardless of my marital status or gender, I am a Christian, and thus should first and foremost live my life as servant to all. This is uppermost in my mind in considering everything about how to go forward with my life now. And I truly believe GOD is the One who brought me to this place, for His own purposes.

Again, thank you.