Embattled N.C. pastor resigns, says he was misunderstood

The Democratic Party stands for the very values that Christ explicitly preached and taught, the same values that were at the very heart of the New Testament Church and apostolic teaching.

Matt. 19:20. The young man *said to Him, "All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?"
21. Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
22. But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.

Acts 20:35. "In everything I showed you that by working hard in this manner you must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He Himself said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.' "

Gal 2:9. and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
10. They only asked us to remember the poor--the very thing I also was eager to do.

The Republican Party, on the other hand, stands for the very values the Christ explicitly preached and taught against.

Mark 7:20. And He was saying, "That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man.
21. "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries,
22. deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness.
23. "All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man."

Luke 12:15. Then He said to them, "Beware, and be on your guard against every form of greed; for not even when one has an abundance does his life consist of his possessions."

Rom. 1:28. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
29. being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,
30. slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
31. without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;
32. and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

Heb. 13:5. Make sure that your character is free from the love of money, being content with what you have; for He Himself has said, "I WILL NEVER DESERT YOU, NOR WILL I EVER FORSAKE YOU,"
6. so that we confidently say, "THE LORD IS MY HELPER, I WILL NOT BE AFRAID. WHAT WILL MAN DO TO ME?"

The parents of millions of children in the United States work for wages that are so low that the families cannot afford any kind of insurance and suffer the most absolutely grievous agony because they cannot afford to go to a doctor or dentist, resulting in the most horrible deaths from cancers that could have been treated, the amputation of limbs due to infections that could have been treated, ugly, rotten teeth, etc., etc. And yet the Republican Party has consistently fought against increasing the minimum wage. And now the Republican Party is fighting to reduce Social Security benefits rather than raise the cap on income that is taxable by the Social Security Administration. The sins of covertness are condemned throughout the New Testament, but they are the very hallmark of the Republican Party. Instead of being thankful for the opportunity to pay taxes to care for the poor and lift them out of poverty, they fight tooth and nail for tax cuts to pad their own wallets. Their litmus test is not any of the multitude of sins that the Republican Party stands for; their litmus test is the abortion issue because it doesn’t cost them any money! Abortions were very common in the time of Christ—but He never even mentioned the subject—His priority was the children who have already been born and their needs—the very antithesis of the philosophy of the Republican Party!

And of course there is also the matter of racial discrimination, bigotry, and the other abominable sins of the Republican Party, but when I was serving as the senior pastor of an inner-city church, I never once preached politics—I preached only the Bible, and I expect the same from other Baptist pastors.

(All Scriptures are from the NASB, 1995)

 

Craig, what were you doing to make it clear, in the early stages of the running when the candiudates were being chosen, that Kerry, being in favour both of abortion and homosexual marriage, was not an acceptable presidential candidate for those Christians who wanted to vote for the Democratic party? Anything at all? Or is the truth that in fact YOU BELIEVE in abortion and / or homosexual marriage?

Liz

Liz

 

Hey Craig,

Looks like to me you just preached a sermonette on politics. If the text of Scriputre addresses a political issue then the preacher must address that political issue when he preaches that text.

Jesus did not have to teach against abortion because His Father had already done that with a fairly short verse back in Ex. 20 that says "Thou shall not commit murder." This command includes the prohibition against the murder of unborn babies.

In your argument above you have completely disregarded the areas of the Democratic Party's platform that fall woefully short of biblical requirements for Christians. Likewise, you focused all your attention solely on things about the Republican Party that could be interpreted as being anti-biblical. Yet, you negelected to point out where they do line up with the Scripture. You are not being intelectually honest. I am not calling you a liar here, just pointing out that you did not present a complete picture of either party. You used a select and microscopic view of each party in an attempt to present your argument which is not sound logic and makes this entire portion of your argument invalid.

Likewise, you attempted to use Scripture to make your point that the Republican Party is full of all kinds of sinfullness but provided no evidence to prove that they are doing what you indicate by the sins listed in the Scriptures quoted. It is all just accusation without evidence to support the claim.

Jesus did teach us that we, Christians, and thereby His Church ought to care for the hungry, widows, little children, the poor, etc. He never indicated that it was the government's responsibility to do so. You are taking requirements for the church/Christians and placing them upon the secular civil government (and namely upon the Republican Party). However, according to my view of the issue at hand every Christian voter ought to seek to support candidates who do support these things as well as seek to protect the life of unborn babies and protect the institution of marriage between one man and one woman etc.

Anyway, I am not making an argument for one or the other political party. I am talking about the individual beliefs and the issues supported by individual candidates regardless of their party affiliation. If they don't line up with my Christian beliefs then I can not support them with my vote. That is what was at the heart of what Chan was trying to teach his former congregation. The mainstream press is only focused on the fact that he made reference to support for John Kerry as being wrong. However, they totally disregarded the fact that Chan also pointed out that two Republican candidates should not have been supported by Bible believing Christians. Again, I don't agree with the way he attempted to make his point. However, his point is correct. One's Christian beliefs ought to impact and influence every aspect of one's life and that includes how one votes.

[ May 19, 2005, 06:50 AM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]

 

Gene, I assume what was bolded is what you want to emphasize. I am curious in what sense you think Chan Chandler and the East Waynesville Church resorted to civil power to carry on its work?

Bible-boy, thanks for the link.

 

Jesus never mentioned either abortion or homosexuality. No New Testament writers ever mentioned abortion. Paul made it explicitly clear that homosexuality is a horrendous sin, but equated it in seriousness with other horrendous sins. When I evaluate party platforms, I compare them first with what was important to Jesus, and secondly what was important to the apostles. That leaves abortion off the list all together.

My experience as a senior pastor taught me that the major contributing factor to homosexuality in men is a weak father figure in the lives of boys as they are growing up. The major contributing factor to the weak father figure is divorce, and the divorce rate among evangelical Christians in the United States has climbed 10 fold from 5% in 1970 to 51% in 2004 (even higher than among non-Christians). Another major contributing factor to the weak father figure is fathers who are too busy to be there for their sons. The homosexuality rate among the sons of evangelical pastors is alarming. Damning Kerry to hell from the pulpit is not the answer to homosexuality in the United States.

 

Only if you operate on the erroneous assumption that a conceived child is not a life.

 

Bible-boy wrote,

I didn't preach it from the pulpit or claim tax exempt status under the 501(C)(3) section of the Internal Revenue Code.

The pastor is to address the issue as a Biblical issue; not as a political issue.

The Jewish community in which Jesus lived, preached, and taught did NOT regard abortion as murder or understand it to be prohibited in the Torah.

 

Bible-boy wrote,

Very true. I was parodying the grossly absurd Evangelical arguments against Kerry and the Democratic Party. The issue is NOT black or white—it is highly complex.

I do not focus on one of two points—I focus on the overall teaching of the Bible and I find that the Democratic Party is in closer alignment with the teachings of the Bible than is the Republican Party. Both parties, however, come woefully short of upholding the values taught by our Savior. Pastors are to preach the Bible and leave party platforms in the political arena.

Amen!

 

I do not believe that a blastocyst is a human being—but I do believe that the people of Iraq that Bush has ordered to be killed are human beings. The “war” in Iraq is an illegal war, and thus it is murder—plain and simple!

 

Hello Craig,

Would you mind backing that statement up from the text of Scripture?

 

The Scriptures are absolutely silent about abortions even though the ancient literature on abortions is extensive. Those who are familiar with this literature know that among both the ancient Jews and Christians, there has never been a consensus of opinion. It is, therefore, striking that neither Jesus nor the Apostles gave their teaching upon it. The only rational conclusion is that they did not see the issue as important as the issues upon which they did teach.

As for the Jewish perspective, going all the way back to Moses, I shall let the Jews speak for themselves, quoting from Daniel Eisenberg, MD, on a pro-life Jewish web site dealing abortions, including pre-embryo abortions.

And here is another Jewish perspective,

I am quoting these Jewish sources because the people whom Jesus taught were Jews and it is important to consider what they would have believed about abortion.

 

If Owens' is correct, then it seems that the media, deliberately or unconsciously, put a certain slant on the story that emphasized parties over issues.

But, does a local Baptist Church have the right to determine its own membership criteria, qualifications for leadership, and doctrinal positions? Do we stand for that right generally or only when we agree with them?

 

The Scriptures are absolutely silent about abortions even though the ancient literature on abortions is extensive. Those who are familiar with this literature know that among both the ancient Jews and Christians, there has never been a consensus of opinion. It is, therefore, striking that neither Jesus nor the Apostles gave their teaching upon it. The only rational conclusion is that they did not see the issue as important as the issues upon which they did teach.

As for the Jewish perspective, going all the way back to Moses, I shall let the Jews speak for themselves, quoting from Daniel Eisenberg, MD, on a pro-life Jewish web site dealing abortions, including pre-embryo abortions.

And here is another Jewish perspective,

I am quoting these Jewish sources because the people whom Jesus taught were Jews and it is important to consider what they would have believed about abortion.

</font>[/QUOTE]Hey Craig,

We are starting to get way off the original topic of this thread. Our discussion of abortion and/or homosexuality is very interesting from both and an ethical and an evangelistic standpoint. I would love to continue the discussion. However, I think we should start a new thread topic for that purpose and leave this one for the discussion of the original topic.

I have some really good material on the topic of abortion on file at my house. I'll try to run home and get it tonight and start a new thread in this same General Baptist Discussions Forum.

 

I could not agree more

Amen! However, I may decide not to participate in the new thread myself. I firmly believe that homosexual acts are a damnable sin; but my thoughts on abortion are not nearly so clear. I will probably read what you post and pray as to whether or not I should post any replies.

I very much appreciate the spirit of Christ that is manifest in your posts and I look forward to reading what you post. May God richly bless you.

 

I would hope that you are not calling a pastor, someone who God has allowed to be put into that position, garbage.

 

Jesus never mentioned the holocaust, rape, taking drugs, or racism. I guess these must be allright according to this standard.