Encrypted or Unencrypted

[Van]

One of the difficulties bible students studying from English translations is that sometimes the same source language word is translated into several English words. This is sometimes needed because the source word carries or apparently carries more than one contexual meaning.

But a very different difficulty is encountered when the same source word carrying the same contextual meaning, is translated into multiply English words. This seems to accomplish encryption in my opinion.

And still another difficulty arises when more than one source word is used in our inspired text to refer to the same action or entity. For example we can rack our brains trying to discern the difference in meaning when Christ is called Jesus or Jesus Christ or Christ Jesus or Lord and so forth. This issue becomes pertinent when our "coming to Jesus" refers to a spiritual change of location (going from being in Adam to being in Christ). This action is also referred to as "called" or "baptized" or "sanctified" (with the meaning of set apart) or "given" or "transferred." Thus six or so different Greek words all describe this action of God to relocate us spiritually.

Let us consider the option of translating different source words, but being used contextually to apparently mean the same thing, with not the same but with synonyms with the same meaning.

In 1 Peter 2:9 we find "called out" used metaphorically to refer to our relocation from being in Adam to being in Christ. Is this the best translation, and what can we do to avoid the suggestion of invitation, and embrace the implication of transfer?

 

[37818]

In 1 Peter 2:9 we find "called out" used metaphorically to refer to our relocation from being in Adam to being in Christ. Is this the best translation, and what can we do to avoid the suggestion of invitation, and embrace the implication of transfer?

. . . But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar/purchased people; that ye should shew forth the praises/virtues of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: . . .

 

[Van]

. . . But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar/purchased people; that ye should shew forth the praises/virtues of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light: . . .

Yes, those chosen were transferred out of darkness and into His marvelous light. They went from the realm of darkness in Adam to being transferred into the kingdom of His Beloved Son. Colossians 1:13

 

[canadyjd]

As biblical scholars continue research into how these words are used, both in biblical context and non-biblical context, our understanding of scripture is deepened.

An example my Greek prof gave is from Philippians “He who began a good work in you will complete it….” I have heard this preached as sanctification, but it really has nothing to do with sanctification.

First, the “you” is plural, so it should be “among you all” not “in you”.

Second, Philippi was the site of a very historic civil war battle that led to Octavian becoming Emperor Augustus.

The were two major battles (called works) during the conflict. Octavian’s avoided conflict in the first battle, conducted a flanking maneuver and won the day in the second battle.

A popular saying arose from the battle… “complete the once begun work”. Think “remember the Alamo” or something similar.

Paul was referring to this popular saying when He proclaimed Christ would complete the once begun “work”.

The context of Philippians is clear that the “work” Paul is referring to is the advancement (proclamation) of the gospel in the midst of persecution which is the major theme of the letter.

Another reason why scholarship in the biblical languages is so important.

peace to you

 

[Van]

One of the best ways to enable effective bible study is to start with a primary study bible that does a good job of following the historical/grammatical method of translation. There is better chance problems like cited in post #44 will be avoided.

Philippiansl 1:6 (NASB
For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work among you will complete it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Phl 1:6 NET
For I am sure of this very thing, that the one who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Since the English word "you" can refer to an individual, or to more than one individual, use of a reverse interlinear will establish whether the Greek is singular or plural.​

 

[CJP69]

The bible is a thick book to the point that some have said that it's thickness is in proportion to the thickness of men's skulls. I think the sort of sentiment presenting in the opening post exemplifies the truth of that statement.

One of the most important benefits of having such a large volume of scripture is that it's shear volume serves as an error correcting mechanism. Translation errors (honest errors) don't stand a chance of obscuring the major themes of scripture. I don't care which translation of the bible you pick; if you can read it, you can not only understand the story of the bible but you can understand the gospel and be saved by it.

More than that, actually effort must be put into misunderstanding the bible, as is exemplified in the opening post. The bible very simply is not difficult to understand at all. There are a few passages here and there that are more difficult than others (Galatians 1:6-7 & 1 Corinthians 15:29 come to mind), but they are the exception not the rule. For the most part, you can read any passage you want to a third grade child and if you ask him what it means, he'll get it right. The bible very simply is NOT written in any sort of code and it is so far away from being encrypted that the notion is simply absurd.

The key to understanding the bible is not studying the Greek and Hebrew. Studying those language is a perfectly valid and profitable, even critical thing for some to do but it is not necessary for the average person. If you want to understand the bible, what you need to do is to start with the big picture and work your way down to the details, which is just exactly the opposite of what is exemplified in this thread. This thread is all about diving into not just details but minutia. It's like studying the pixels on a puzzle piece while barely paying any attention to the hole piece, never mind looking at the box top.

The details become so easy as to mostly be intuitive when the big picture is held in view. If you understand The Plot of the bible, you'll not only understand why you believe what you believe but why most other Christians believe what they believe as well.

 

[Van]

Scripture says we are to study or be diligent to show ourselves approved, rightly handing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15) We must defend the pure gospel over and against the many false teachings brought in by false teachers. In order to check whether what someone says the bible says, we must dive into the associated text.

For example, when scripture says we are "called, chosen and faithful" what does called mean - invited, named or relocated? Obviously we are the invited, chosen and faithful. Why?

Matthew 22:14
“For many are [fn]called, but few are chosen.” (Footnote - invited) NASB​

 

[CJP69]

Scripture says we are to study or be diligent to show ourselves approved, rightly handing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15) We must defend the pure gospel over and against the many false teachings brought in by false teachers. In order to check whether what someone says the bible says, we must dive into the associated text.

For example, when scripture says we are "called, chosen and faithful" what does called mean - invited, named or relocated? Obviously we are the invited, chosen and faithful. Why?

Matthew 22:14
“For many are [fn]called, but few are chosen.” (Footnote - invited) NASB​

I do not deny that a study of the specifics is valuable and needed. The point is that it is often fruitless because it is done outside the context of the bigger picture.
What typically passes for bible study isn't really bible study, per se. It's usually more of an exercise in forcing a pet doctrine to fit into passages that seem to contradict it. Most often, theologians allow their proof texts to stand untouched while they parse the daylights out of their problem texts. When you understand the overall plot of the bible, you end up with almost no problem texts that need parsing and real bible study can happen where your goal is deeper understanding rather than winning debates or making the bible agree with one's pet doctrines.

 

[Van]

Part of bible study is to derive the contextual usage and meaning of the words and phrases of the scriptural text, the bigger picture. Bible study has the object of deriving from the text the intended meaning, rather than trying to pour preconceptions into the text.

The concept of a word study is to see how a particular source word is used in scripture (or a part of scripture, same author, or same book. For example in Luke, "poieo" G4160, appears about 14 times in the same grammatical form as in 2 Corinthians 5:21. Here is an example:

Luke 1:49
For the Mighty One has done great things for me;
And holy is His name.​

"Has done" translates "poieo" but "did to" works as well. (The Mighty One did to me great things.) Or treated me with great things.

Thus our job as bible students is to compare the historical word meanings and from the context derive which one best conveys the intended message. And to derive this insight, use of an exhaustive concordance, lexicon and reverse interlinear are used.

 

[Van]

Bible study is the decryption key to unlock the treasures of scripture.

 

[Van]

Luke 1:68
“Blessed be the Lord God of Israel,
For He has visited us and accomplished redemption for His people,

Here poieo could be translated as "For He has visited us and treated His people with redemption.

Luke 5:29
And Levi gave a big reception for Him in his house; and there was a large crowd of tax collectors and other people who were reclining at the table with them.

Here poieo could be translated as, And Levi treated Him in his house with a big reception;

Luke 8:39
“Return to your home and describe what great things God has done for you.” So he went away, proclaiming throughout the city what great things Jesus had done for him.

Here poieo could be translated as "Return to your home and describe how God treated you with great things.

Hopefully the point is made, poieo has within its historical range of meanings the idea of performing some act upon another, do to, did to, has done, dealt with, treated, etc. This is a very different meaning than to make something out of something, and so which meaning is intended is clearly provided the context.

Our job is to speak clearly, plainly and boldly, avoiding vague, ambiguous and double meaning words which serve to encrypt God's message.

 

[CJP69]

Bible study is the decryption key to unlock the treasures of scripture.

Reading it works just as well.

 

[Van]

An ancillary point about vague, ambiguous or double meaning words and phrases found in translations concerns the reading level at which an English translation is rendered. Some, like my beloved NASB, are written for high school level readers, whereas the CEV and NLT are written for elementary level readers. Thus if someone who reads at a middle school level, tries to read the NASB, KJV or NRSV, they will have difficulty in understanding, perhaps wrongfully interpreting what is said.

But there are bibles for just about every reading level, such as the NIV and NET for middle school level readers.

 

[Van]

We know from scripture that "destructive heresies" are secretly introduced among us. And one path of introduction is the use of vague, ambiguous or double meaning words or phrases in scripture.

By using a lexicon, available on line or in book form, we can find the range of historically used meanings of the words under study.

 

[Van]

Lets look at 2 Peter 2:1:

2 Peter 2:1 (NASB)

But false prophets also appeared among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.​

Since this verse obviously runs counter to the idea Christ only died for those to be saved, as opposed to the whole of humanity, alternate interpretations are often found in the commentaries based possible alternate meanings of words. We have "Master" challenged as not referring to Christ Jesus. We have "bought" challenged as not meaning "died for."

But with our trusty lexicon we can see how the Greek word translated "Master" in the same context does indeed refer to Christ.
Here is Jude 1:4:

For certain people have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into indecent behavior and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. ​

The Greek word, transliterated, is "despotēs" (G1203) and is translated as "Lord," "Master," and "master," by the NASB. When translated with a "capital" the translators are signalling they interpret the usage to refer to God. When in lower case, the signal is the word is referring to a human, or in the plural humans.

The three cases where we find "despotes" translated as "Lord" are Luke 2:29, Acts 4:24 (and footnoted as Master) and Revelation 6:10 (also footnoted as Master). Now in Acts of the Apostles 2:29 Simeon is addressing God as he is holding the baby Jesus, the Christ. In Acts of the Apostles 4:24, the speakers are again addressing God. In Revelation 6:10, the speakers appear to be addressing the Lamb of God, the risen Christ Jesus. It seems if the NASB translators thought God the Father might be in view, they chose "Lord" over "Master" to convey this nuance.

In four cases we see "master(s)" when the speakers are addressing humans, 1 Timothy 6:1, 6:2, Titus 2:9 and 1 Peter 2:18.

And finally, in two cases (2 Peter 2:1 and Jude 1:4) we find "Master" with Jesus Christ in view. Thus using only a trusty English lexicon we can discern the challenge to the identity of "Master" in 2 Peter 2:1 falls flat.

 

[Van]

Turning now to the meaning of "bought" as translated by the NASB in 2 Peter 2:1, we find, using again our trusty English bible study tool, our lexicon, the Greek word transliterated "agorazō" (G59). The word is used for humans buying material things, food, clothing, land with money and for Christ purchasing people with His blood.

The verses where our word is used for divine purchase are : 1 Corinthians 6:20, 7:23; 2 Peter 2:1; Revelation 5:9, 14:3 and 14:4.

In 1 Corinthians 6:20 bought is used to indicate the person belongs to God, so the idea conveyed is both purchased with His blood but also redeemed by being transferred into Christ, thus one of His sheep. Here the one word conveys a "double meaning."

In 1 Corinthians 7:23, again we see bought being used to refer to people who have been both purchased with His blood and redeemed by their transfer into Christ spiritually.

In 2 Peter 2:1 we find our word referring only to the individual, as one of humanity, being purchased but not redeemed as he is headed for swift destruction.

In Revelation 5:9 again we see the word referring to both purchasing and redeeming individuals.

In Revelation 14:3 and 14:4 we see again the word used for both purchasing and redeeming individuals.

No wonder the confusion, the word is used for one divine action in one verse, and two divine actions in 5 other verses!

What if we used two different English words, one just for purchase without redemption, and one for both actions of purchase and redemption? How about purchased for one action and procured for the double action? This would end or minimize the confusion from the encryption of the actual meanings by using one word for both.

 

[Van]

Some might ask what was purchased if not the possession of the person? Procured refers to obtaining the possession of something or someone. Jesus bought the means of salvation for the whole of humanity, including that person headed for swift destruction, with His blood. But some of those purchased were also chosen and transferred into Christ, thus procured.

 

[Van]

Why not use "redeemed" rather than procured? The NASB translates two other Greek words as redeemed, but does not use procured.

 

[Van]

Returning to 1 Corinthians 6:20, " you have been bought with a price..." Here the phrase could be translated "you have been procured through shed blood. Here the meaning of the Greek word translated "price" in this usage is decrypted and the price itself is given.

Similarly in 1 Corinthians 7:23, "you were bought for a price" could be translated as you were procured through shed blood."

In the same way, Revelation 5:9 " You purchased people for God with Your blood" could be translated "You procured people for God through Your blood.

Lastly in Revelation 14:3 and 14:4, purchased would be rendered "procured" indicating the action of obtaining possession.

 

[Van]

Lets take a gander at the NASB version of Galatians 1:6;

I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel,"​

Were those embracing someone other than Christ? Nope, But they were moving away from His gospel by which they were called, for a different gospel.

So how could we translate the verse to make the message clear?

Galatians 1:6 (interpretive translation)
I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting His gospel by which He called you through the grace of Christ, for a different gospel.​

The key is to look at the actual meaning of the Greek word translated "deserting." It is used to indicate exchanging one thing for another. And of course the thing being exchanged is the actual gospel for another gospel which is not the gospel.