End of Israel?

[KenH]

I see a belief challenged, but not an individual!

So are you saying that one can call a belief anti-Semitic without calling a person who holds such a belief anti-Semitic?

 

[KenH]

I would have used false doctrine.

I reckon every belief expressed on this board, outside of the fundamentals of the faith, has been called a false doctrine.

 

[Dagwood]

With one exception Paul's undisputed letters refer to the bad guys as "the Jews" and the good guys as "Israel." Was Paul anti-semitic?

I think this is a very good question!

 

[Bro. Curtis]

What promise made to Old Testament Israel has not already been fulfilled by God? They received all of the land they were promised. They became as the sand on the seashore in population. The promised Christ was sent.

If it weren't for that one pesky word, "forevermore".......

That being said, the anti-semetic accusation isn't warranted. Could be that we are ALL wrong on this.

But I do believe we are to pray for Israel, and I do believe that's where Christ's Earthly kingdom will be set.

 

[Linda64]

If it weren't for that one pesky word, "forevermore".......

That being said, the anti-semetic accusation isn't warranted. Could be that we are ALL wrong on this.

But I do believe we are to pray for Israel, and I do believe that's where Christ's Earthly kingdom will be set.

Psalms 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.

I have a question: What do you call a doctrine that is clearly anti-Israel and calls for the "dissolution of Israel" as the "only way to have peace in the Middle East"?

Furthermore, the Palestinian Authority has never amended its PLO charter to recognize Israel’s right to exist, as required by the Declaration of Principles signed with Israel in 1993. Arafat did write a letter to Yitzhak Rabin on September 9, 1993 that stated, “The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security,” but he left the PLO charter unchanged, still call for “the elimination of the Jewish state.” When questioned about this seeming contradiction, Arafat stated that when a Palestinian state is set up (according to the terms of Palestinians), a new charter would be made that includes the recognition of Israel. However, if the Palestinians’ stated goals are achieved, there will be no Israel to recognize! Unholy War, Randall Price, Harvest House Publishers, 2001, pp. 334, 335

link

 

[tinytim]

What would it do to our theology, if Israel discontinued to be a nation?
Since 1948, preachers have preached that the fact Israel is a nation, a prophecy has been fulfilled...

What would happen, say in 2012 or so, Israel gets wiped off the map?
It happened in 70 AD...

 

[Linda64]

What would it do to our theology, if Israel discontinued to be a nation?
Since 1948, preachers have preached that the fact Israel is a nation, a prophecy has been fulfilled...

What would happen, say in 2012 or so, Israel gets wiped off the map?
It happened in 70 AD...

The fact that God made the promise to Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3 and in Genesis 15:1-21, Israel will never be destroyed or wiped off the map...although the Palestinians desire to see that happen...according to their Charter. Israel isn't even on the maps of the Palestinians, but that should not surprise anyone.

Not everything God promised Israel has been fulfilled, but will be fulfilled in the future Millennial Kingdom.

In 70 A.D., the armies of Titus leveled Jerusalem and that's when the Jewish people scattered throughout the known world. That is called the Diaspora. In 1948 a miracle happened--Israel became a state and the Jewish people are returning...in unbelief (the dry bones of Ezekiel 37). Israel will never be destroyed because God made that promise to His people. God is faithful and will keep ALL His promises and covenants.

 

[hillclimber1]

What promise made to Old Testament Israel has not already been fulfilled by God? They received all of the land they were promised. They became as the sand on the seashore in population. The promised Christ was sent.

By no means does Israel have all the promised land. They are not numbered as the sand of the sea, by any measurement. Christ has not taken the throne of David. Israel is not the privileged nation described in scripture, but are a democracy in an area of unrest, that we must support.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Israel has been wiped off the map until 1949. What's to say it couldn't happen again, only to be reformed once more at some future time?

 

[hillclimber1]

Israel has been wiped off the map until 1949. What's to say it couldn't happen again, only to be reformed once more at some future time?

Nothing, that I know of, but I'm too fuzzy on it. I think it was '48' though.

 

[The Scribe]

Israel has been wiped off the map until 1949. What's to say it couldn't happen again, only to be reformed once more at some future time?

Israel became a nation on May 14,1948.

God promised the land to their descendants after them and forevermore. (Leviticus 25:46, Joshua 14:9 and so on.)

When the Jewish People entered into the 'Promised land' God warned them that if they practiced the idolatry and immorality of the land's previous inhabitants, for which He had destroyed them, He would cast them out as well

Sadly, Israel - whom God loved, chose and brought into the Promised Land ... turns to the very same idolatry that they were repeatedly warned against by their very own prophets! One example can be found in Jeremiah Chapter 44 when God is very angry as they are worshipping the "Queen of Heaven".

"Remember, I beseech thee, the word that thou commandedst thy servant Moses, saying, If ye transgress, I will scatter you abroad among the nations" Nehemiah 1:8 (KJV)
"And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you." Deuteronomy 4:27 (KJV)

That's why they lost their land before.

God also stated in His Word. He would regather them in the Last Days.

"For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it." Jeremiah 30:3 (KJV)

1. "There are cities in today's world which are renowned because of their strategic location, their great size, their climate and natural resources, or their industrial and manufacturing capability and capacity. Jerusalem has none of these advantages to commend it. Yet there is not a city on earth which is better known and more dearly loved by so many people of diverse nationalities and beliefs. And certainly there is no city which is of greater importance to world peace." (Cup of Trembling, Dave Hunt)

"Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it." Zechariah 12:2-3 (KJV)
"And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. " Zechariah 12:9 (KJV)
Everyone wants to have a say in what happens with Jerusalem.
The Vatican and the World Leaders want it as an "International City."
The Arabs claim it belongs to them ... But what does GOD say? "The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine..." Leviticus 25:23 (KJV)
This land belongs to God. And we have already shown - from the Bible - to whom God promised this land. In Leviticus 25 God is giving the Jews instruction on the Land that He is giving to them. He wanted them to keep a Sabbath unto the Lord.

Historically - there is no Palestine ... No Palestinian people ... language ... culture ... religion ... economy etc! Yet we see claims of descent from a "Palestinian people" who supposedly lived in a land called "Palestine" for thousands of years.

That land was the Land of Canaan, inhabited by Canaanites.
" ... the Canaanites dwell by the sea, and by the coast of Jordan."Numbers 13:29
(See Also: Genesis 12:5 ... Genesis 13:12 ... Exodous 13:11 etc. )
This same land later became the land of Israel. When God gave it to His Chosen People. "And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."Genesis 17:8 (KJV)

..:: I s r a e l // God's Timepiece ::..

Look at the site above for the rest.

Israel will never fall entirely ever again.

 

[Matt Black]

It doesn't matter what the early church taught. What does matter is "What saith the LORD"?

Such a phrase has been the birth of many a heresy in just my own lifetime

What does Scriptures teach--not what the early church taught.

Fine, if you want to ignore the Church which Christ established. Sola Scriptura doesn't work - wake up and smell the coffee, people.

And Curtis, many of us left the Baptist church becuase of the unbiblical doctrine of sola Scriptura

 

[KenH]

By no means does Israel have all the promised land. They are not numbered as the sand of the sea, by any measurement.

All of that was fulfilled in the Old Testament by at least the reign of Solomon.

 

[Matt Black]

The fact that God made the promise to Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3 and in Genesis 15:1-21, Israel will never be destroyed or wiped off the map...Israel will never be destroyed because God made that promise to His people. God is faithful and will keep ALL His promises and covenants.

Er...except that Israel was destroyed between 70AD and 15th May 1948. So that just makes your argument fallacious: either God's is unfaithful and doesn't keep His promises, or you interpretation of Biblical prophecy is askew. I know which one my money's on...

 

[Matt Black]

With one exception Paul's undisputed letters refer to the bad guys as "the Jews" and the good guys as "Israel." Was Paul anti-semitic?

And John refers entirely to the Jews as the bad guys in his Gospel; he even has Jesus referring to them as 'children of Satan' and the diaspora Jews in the Near East as 'the synagogue of Satan' in Revelation. So I guess that makes John and Jesus anti-Semitic? Are you going to tell them that or shall I?

 

[The Scribe]

Er...except that Israel was destroyed between 70AD and 15th May 1948. So that just makes your argument fallacious: either God's is unfaithful and doesn't keep His promises, or you interpretation of Biblical prophecy is askew. I know which one my money's on...

I believe she means after May 14,1948.

If something is wiped off the map it will never come back like Israel has.

If you had read my comment you would have seen this...

"For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it." Jeremiah 30:3 (KJV)

God is regathering His chosen people and we are in the last days.

 

[KenH]

Who are God's chosen people according to the apostle Peter?

1 Peter 2:9-10 (ESV)
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. [10] Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

 

[KenH]

Christ has not taken the throne of David.

According to the apostle Peter this has already happened.

Acts 2:30-36 (ESV)
Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, [31] he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. [32] This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. [33] Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. [34] For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says,
" 'The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand,
[35] until I make your enemies your footstool.'
[36] Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified."

 

[Matt Black]

I believe she means after May 14,1948.

Nice try, but the non-existence of Israel between 70 and 1948 entirely negates the interpretation of the Biblical prophecies you are quoting. I'm afraid that that particular elephant is still very much in the middle of the drawing room despite the misinterpretation of Scripture from the corners.

"For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it." Jeremiah 30:3 (KJV)

Perfectly agreed, and already fulfilled under Cyrus the Great in the 530sBC. So the point of that quote from Jeremiah to our current debate is...?

 

[The Scribe]

Nice try, but the non-existence of Israel between 70 and 1948 entirely negates the interpretation of the Biblical prophecies you are quoting.

When the Jewish People entered into the 'Promised land' God warned them that if they practiced the idolatry and immorality of the land's previous inhabitants, for which He had destroyed them, He would cast them out as well

God casted them out. He's has already brought them back.

You seem anti-Semitic. Shameful.