End times thoughts - continued

[agedman]

But, flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom.

WHERE is the Kingdom of heaven?

Read the revelation (last five chapters) and you will see that it is AFTER the great white throne judgement.

For all earth and heaven have been done away.

A new heaven, a new earth, especially prepared for the redeemed just as the Lord Jesus Christ promised awaits.

There is no sun, or moon. No temple to be found.

Such a place of wonder that after a very short statement, John doesn't continue but tells folks to read and believe.

 

[Yeshua1]

WHERE is the Kingdom of heaven?

Read the revelation (last five chapters) and you will see that it is AFTER the great white throne judgement.

For all earth and heaven have been done away.

A new heaven, a new earth, especially prepared for the redeemed just as the Lord Jesus Christ promised awaits.

There is no sun, or moon. No temple to be found.

Such a place of wonder that after a very short statement, John doesn't continue but tells folks to read and believe.

There is the earth as we know it now, just redeemed from the Curse and paradise restored, when jesus rules and reigns, then he turns it over to the Father, and then the eternal state!

 

[1689Dave]

In what manner is it to be taken as a "Physical chain?"

You said: "You state “the angel is a symbol, also the chain, and the serpent...” They are not."

So you are now agreeing with me...... saying: "In what manner is it to be taken as a "Physical chain?"

Where does John even consider that such is "physical" in the sense of human developed chain?

Do you know deoxyribonucleic acid is considered a "chain." ........... and so on.

 

[1689Dave]

WHERE is the Kingdom of heaven?

“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:20–21)

 

[1689Dave]

The chain represent s aliteral action of God binding Satan and putting Him under imprisonment for 1000 years.

Let me see if I get this. The symbolic chain represents God binding Satan for a literal 1000 years?

 

[agedman]

Presently. He must reign until he destroys the last enemy - death. This happens at the resurrection on the last day.

Not true.

For the believer, there is no death. The body ceases, and the believer is present with the Lord for the believer is already a "new creation."

Death has no power, has no sting, has no threat to the believer.

Throughout Scriptures the word "dead and death" mean in the simplest form the cessation of the human body.

However, the Scriptures in the last five chapters of the Revelation speak of that "second death."

Jesus is not reigning, He is sitting at the side of the Father waiting for the Father to make the world His footstool.

When will that happen (the world become His footstool)? When He is told (Texas style) "Go get 'em, Son."

See again the last five chapters of the Revelation to see how he brings dominion over all the earth as such dominion has never occurred from the Eden.

The resurrection of the last day as YOU seem to design, doesn't occur in the Scriptures as you are portraying it.

Again, you need to review the statements of the last 5 chapters of the Revelation.

 

[agedman]

“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:20–21)

Oh, my.

Where is Christ right now? Is He on this earth?

Where was Christ then? Was He not on this earth?

"My kingdom is not of this world" is not about the earth, but the "world system of governance" and even the religious righteous of Christ's day and our own understand what was said by the Lord.

But, some make it to be that which the Scriptures do not support!

 

[1689Dave]

Not true.

If you believe Paul, Jesus is presently reigning over earth until he destroys the last enemy death at the resurrection.

“For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.” (1 Corinthians 15:25–26)

 

[1689Dave]

Oh, my.

Where is Christ right now? Is He on this earth?

Jesus is reigning on David's Throne in heaven.

“Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.” (Acts 2:30–31)

 

[agedman]

The kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God are the same.

“From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 4:17)
“And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.” (Mark 1:15)

Why did Christ state the kingdom of heaven is at hand? Was it because he was a ruler? Or was it that He would be forming the church?

What is the gospel? Is it not the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ and that those who are redeemed are to believe?

Surely, you know these, yet you would discredit that whole of prophecy and statements of the Apostles by attempting to conform the truth into some human realization that just cannot contain the whole?

 

[1689Dave]

Why did Christ state the kingdom of heaven is at hand? Was it because he was a ruler? Or was it that He would be forming the church?

The Kingdom is Spiritual and IS the Church in heaven and on earth.

 

[agedman]

Jesus is reigning on David's Throne in heaven.

“Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.” (Acts 2:30–31)

The throne of our Lord in the present heaven is not called "David's throne."

Christ stated that He desired to return to the place (position) held prior to the first coming. The Father granted such, which is why the throne upon which Christ sits is NOT the throne of David, but that which He occupied beside the Father for all eternity past.

David's throne is found in Jerusalem in the millennium on this earth.

 

[agedman]

The Kingdom is Spiritual and IS the Church in heaven and on earth.

Yep, and He will rule this earth just as the Father rules all heaven.

But, that isn't happening, yet.

But, it will.

 

[1689Dave]

The throne of our Lord in the present heaven is not called "David's throne."

Peter says it is.
“Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.” (Acts 2:30–31)

 

[1689Dave]

Yep, and He will rule this earth just as the Father rules all heaven.

But, that isn't happening, yet.

But, it will.

Already happening. Is Jesus God? Then he rules in the kingdoms of men and gives them to whomsoever he will.

 

[agedman]

If you believe Paul, Jesus is presently reigning over earth until he destroys the last enemy death at the resurrection.

“For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.” (1 Corinthians 15:25–26)

You missed this????

23But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, 24then comes the end, when He delivers up the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
​

So, Paul is in no matter refuting the statement of John in the last 5 chapters of the revelation. Rather, Paul is giving a short statement of which John goes into much more detail.

But, do not blend it all as if it is smushed bread on a hot day!

It is not.

Each statement of Paul is consistent with the chronology of The Revelation last five chapters.

NOT as you are presenting.

It is AFTER the millennium the Son delivers up the kingdom to the Father - that final judgment in which all appear and are divided. Not before.

 

[agedman]

The Kingdom is Spiritual and IS the Church in heaven and on earth.

Certainly, but it is also, a physical kingdom of which the prophets clearly spoke, the Apostles presented, the Revelation states plainly, that which the Lord Jesus Christ declared and which is yet to come.

 

[Yeshua1]

Let me see if I get this. The symbolic chain represents God binding Satan for a literal 1000 years?

The symbol represents an actual real thing that happens.

 

[Covenanter]

This is most inaccurate.

Only the Father knows when the Son is given to return, NOT the end of the this world.

Have you not read the last 5 chapters of the Revelation?

The Father knows when He will send the Son to this earth as It states He will come shown chronologically in the last 5 chapters of the Revelation.

Continuing in the first chapter -

7 ‘Look, he is coming with the clouds,’
and ‘every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him’;
and all [peoples on earth] tribes of the land
‘will mourn because of him.’
So shall it be! Amen.​

The Greek φυλή (phylē), here translated "peoples" is Strong G5443.
The KJV translates Strong's G5443 in the following manner: tribe (25x), kindred (6x).

The Greek γῆ (gē), here translated "earth" is Strong G1093.
The KJV translates Strong's G1093 in the following manner: earth (188x), land (42x), ground (18x), country (2x), world (1x), earthly (with G1537) (with G3588) (1x).

The verse is a quotation from Jesus in Mat. 24:

“And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.​

Jesus concludes that section of his prophecy with the words -

34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.​

The Israelite tribes of the promised land would certainly mourn as all they held dear was destroyed.

The prophecy precedes the destruction, so Revelation was written before AD 70. And it was written to John's "companions in tribulation" -

9 I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. ​

 

[percho]

Jesus is reigning on David's Throne in heaven.

“Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.” (Acts 2:30–31)

He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: Luke 1:32

He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come. Luke 19:12,13

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. Rev 3:21

And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
Luke 19:15

Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool Acts 2:30-35

reform ye, therefore, and turn back, for your sins being blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and He may send Jesus Christ who before hath been preached to you, whom it behoveth heaven, indeed, to receive till times of a restitution of all things, of which God spake through the mouth of all His holy prophets from the age. Acts 3:19-21 YLT