Enough of Dave Ramsey I am turning to John MacArthur on a theology of finances!

[evangelist6589]

Can you show me where the Bible says that it is only when you reach 60% of your income is debt that you suddenly become a slave? Because the last I read the Bible, it just says "borrower is the slave of the lender". That could be $2 or $2,000. Doesn't matter. You are still a slave to them no matter WHAT percentage you owe.

Do you know what a slave is?

Slave-a person who is excessively dependent upon or controlled by something: the poorest people of the world are slaves to the banks

My last job I made allot per month and my CC debt was just a tiny fraction of my salary (less than 10%). Paying less than 10% of ones salary does not makes one a "slave." You work at a job right? Are you a slave there? If you just put in 40-50 hours a week you are not a slave. However if you work 60-100 hours a week you may be considered a slave depending on the employer.

• a person who works very hard without proper remuneration or appreciation: by the time I was ten, I had become her slave, doing all the housework.

Being the legal property of another is only one connotation of the word slave. Its what everyone thinks of, but they have not read the dictionary.

 

[annsni]

Do you know what a slave is?

Slave-a person who is excessively dependent upon or controlled by something: the poorest people of the world are slaves to the banks

My last job I made allot per month and my CC debt was just a tiny fraction of my salary (less than 10%). Paying less than 10% of ones salary does not makes one a "slave." You work at a job right? Are you a slave there? If you just put in 40-50 hours a week you are not a slave. However if you work 60-100 hours a week you may be considered a slave depending on the employer.

• a person who works very hard without proper remuneration or appreciation: by the time I was ten, I had become her slave, doing all the housework.

Being the legal property of another is only one connotation of the word slave. Its what everyone thinks of, but they have not read the dictionary.

Yet you have posted numerous times about your amount of debt and that you have to find a job that will help you to pay that large debt. You lost your last job and now you must find another job that will pay as well. Yes, you are a slave to your debt no matter how high or low it is.

 

[Revmitchell]

If you are in debt you enslaved to your debtor. Period.

 

[evangelist6589]

If you are in debt you enslaved to your debtor. Period.

James MacDonald actually defined it a little differently on a podcast. I will see what MacArthur says in the book on the topic. I have never heard him preach on this topic, so it will be interesting. All debt must be paid yes, but not everyone is a slave to their debt.

 

[evangelist6589]

Yet you have posted numerous times about your amount of debt and that you have to find a job that will help you to pay that large debt. You lost your last job and now you must find another job that will pay as well. Yes, you are a slave to your debt no matter how high or low it is.

Like most churches, and like most these days.

 

[Revmitchell]

James MacDonald actually defined it a little differently on a podcast. I will see what MacArthur says in the book on the topic. I have never heard him preach on this topic, so it will be interesting. All debt must be paid yes, but not everyone is a slave to their debt.

Pro_22:7 The rich rules over the poor, and the borrower is the slave of the lender.

 

[Mexdeaf]

ANY debt automatically makes you a slave to it.

To deny this is nonsensical.

 

[evangelist6589]

ANY debt automatically makes you a slave to it.

To deny this is nonsensical.

http://www.gotquestions.org/money-debt.html

 

[evangelist6589]

Pro_22:7 The rich rules over the poor, and the borrower is the slave of the lender.

http://www.gotquestions.org/money-debt.html

 

[Revmitchell]

http://www.gotquestions.org/money-debt.html

So you thought you could teach a pastor what the Bible says about debt? Look we all have debt at some time. But the point is not to never have any debt. The point is not to intentionally carry debt in order to sustain a life style. Does this make sense?

 

[evangelist6589]

So you thought you could teach a pastor what the Bible says about debt? Look we all have debt at some time. But the point is not to never have any debt. The point is not to intentionally carry debt in order to sustain a life style. Does this make sense?

Watch the ego. One needs humility. I agree that one needs to pay off their debts. I was able to pay-off one CC last month and plan to pay the rest when I get a good paying job. I try and avoid debt as much as possible, however since I am not working that has not been possible. Well back to the job search...

 

[Mexdeaf]

http://www.gotquestions.org/money-debt.html

From your link:

The Bible neither expressly forbids nor condones the borrowing of money. The wisdom of the Bible teaches us that it is usually not a good idea to go into debt. Debt essentially makes us a slave to the one who provides the loan. At the same time, in some situations going into debt is a “necessary evil.” As long as money is being handled wisely and the debt payments are manageable, a Christian can take on the burden of financial debt if it is absolutely necessary.

Going into debt to buy a house is one thing. Going into debt to buy the latest gizmo, gadget, gourmet meal or good book is an entirely different matter.

There's not much you can tell me about going into debt that I have not already experienced. As I said before, my wife and I were $16k in debt due to hospital bills before and we paid it all off without going into bankruptcy. It took cutting up all of our credit cards, a lot of hard work, long hours, blood, sweat and tears, but it did get done. Now we have excellent credit, but we rarely use it.

​

 

[Revmitchell]

Watch the ego. One needs humility. I agree that one needs to pay off their debts. I was able to pay-off one CC last month and plan to pay the rest when I get a good paying job. I try and avoid debt as much as possible, however since I am not working that has not been possible. Well back to the job search...

Just stop. It has nothing to do with ego and I was not referencing anything I said. Do you know who it is that writes those articles for Got questions? Pastors they recruit. I used to write for them for a couple of years.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So you thought you could teach a pastor what the Bible says about debt? Look we all have debt at some time. But the point is not to never have any debt. The point is not to intentionally carry debt in order to sustain a life style. Does this make sense?

Very simple ....I will go back to old GreatGrandDad "Steve"......No dept Steve. Bought 100 Acres in Pennsylvania next to the mighty Susquehanna River & farmed it (used his family as the labor force) ....In the process, he killed his wife & son due to the toil & hard life... never went to a Doctor but dolled out muster plasters & whiskey with honey for whooping cough. Never had heat except fire, never had electricity but had kerosene lamps, worked from 4AM till whenever they got real tired & he took better care of the animals than himself & his kids & grandkids. Now there is a rugged American.....think you could emulate that?

 

[Revmitchell]

Very simple ....I will go back to old GreatGrandDad "Steve"......No dept Steve. Bought 100 Acres in Pennsylvania next to the mighty Susquehanna River & farmed it (used his family as the labor force) ....In the process, he killed his wife & son due to the toil & hard life... never went to a Doctor but dolled out muster plasters & whiskey with honey for whooping cough. Never had heat except fire, never had electricity but had kerosene lamps, worked from 4AM till whenever they got real tired & he took better care of the animals than himself & his kids & grandkids. Now there is a rugged American.....think you could emulate that?

Not sure what you are saying here. But it looks like you think if you do not live a lifestyle of debt you have to live like this. If that is the case it is a fallacy.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Not sure what you are saying here. But it looks like you think if you do not live a lifestyle of debt you have to live like this. If that is the case it is a fallacy.

Dont leave it dangling....prove it out.

 

[annsni]

Like most churches, and like most these days.

Our church has no debt nor do we personally. Just because "most" do something doesn't mean it's Biblical. The Bible says a person in debt is a slave. I still haven't seen any qualifications put on that. Debt=slave

 

[Revmitchell]

Dont leave it dangling....prove it out.

It is near impossible to buy a house without a mortgage. But it is not imposible to buy a car without a loan. And credit card debt is never necessary. Stay out our car loans and credit cards and apply that money to house payments and pay it off in 15 instead of 30.

 

[annsni]

http://www.gotquestions.org/money-debt.html

He agrees with us: "Debt essentially makes us a slave to the one who provides the loan."

 

[Revmitchell]

Our church has no debt nor do we personally. Just because "most" do something doesn't mean it's Biblical. The Bible says a person in debt is a slave. I still haven't seen any qualifications put on that. Debt=slave

"Most"churches are not carrying debt these days. "Most" churches are small rural churches. The young and enthusiastic buck doesn't know what he is talking about.