Entertainment sinful?

I always believe it, KJ. Just cause I can't always follow my own advice, just makes me another imperfect sinner, saved by grace!

 

Yeah, I don't really understand people making Jesus out to be so depressing and all. I for one believe He had a good time on earth and has a great sense of humor.
Where is the joy in people?! We can have a good time with harmless entertainment, nothing wrong with that. I think some Christian's are really missing out by condemning things that are not in scripture, just man-made rules that have no point at all, but to bring misery. </font>[/QUOTE]Isaiah 53:3 tells us the truth about the Hebrew's coming Messiah

"He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from Him; He was despised, and we esteemed Him not."

Hebrews 12:3 teaches us that Jesus "endured such contridiction of sinners against Himself."

The wise Soloman wrote in Ecclesiastes----all that is under the sun is vanity and a vexation of spirit!!!

We must keep in mind---that Jesus was the most loved man on earth----BUT at the same time He was the most hated man on earth.

Did Jesus have a "good time" on earth??? Sure He probably did---but that "good time" never no ever never contridicted the word of Scripture---now, did it??? Did Jesus have a "good time" on Earth---sure He did---but at the same time---I don't think He played "Ring around the Rosey" or "Hide and Seek" with the kids while on his way to the tomb of Lazarus---nor did He have such a "hot good time" while in the land of the Gadarenes!!! The disciples all thought they were friends with Jesus----but when the Shepherd was stricken----where'd the sheep go???? Jesus said Himself, "Strike the Shepherd and the sheep will scatter!"----that is a truth that was from the eons of eternity past and continues to be a truth to this very day!!!

When you grip scripture---grip all of it!!!!! </font>[/QUOTE]Are you talking to me sir that I don't grip all of scripture? You don't know me at all. I think you need to take your own advice.

Maybe I missed it but I don't see where anyone has said to put entertainment above God or serving Him? Having some harmless fun does not contradict scripture. If people want to make up more rules to keep themselves in bondage then so be it. I know I'm not going to do that, I'm free in Christ.

 

Good response. It seems that there's a false dichotomy here that if you aren't spending every waking minute working on the mission field in Africa, you're a selfish no-good.

Yeah, I do think that Jesus took time out to play tag with the kids. And he had fun, too!

 

Yes they did. And I responded:

Psalms 127:2 It is vain for you to rise up early, to sit up late, to eat the bread of sorrows: for so he giveth his beloved sleep.</font>[/QUOTE]Actually if you go back and check I wasn't even addressing you at all. Please don't imply I said things that I did not.

 

Yes Rachel, that is pretty much what I said before I was ***edited***.

Some have souls that are lit up by God and some have a cover over them. I cant understand how those with covers over their souls are supposed to be successful in witnessing to others. The last person most people would seriously listen to is someone who seems terribly restricted and unhappy. Even if they were right.

Peace be with all of you. May God's love invade every fiber and pore of your body so that it may shine for the world to see.

 

1 Corinthians 7:17 But as God has distributed to each one, as the Lord has called each one, so let him walk. And so I ordain in all the churches. 18 Was anyone called while circumcised? Let him not become uncircumcised. Was anyone called while uncircumcised? Let him not be circumcised. 19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 20 Let each one remain in the same calling in which he was called. 21 Were you called while a slave? Do not be concerned about it; but if you can be made free, rather use it. 22 For he who is called in the Lord while a slave is the Lord's freedman. Likewise he who is called while free is Christ's slave. 23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men. 24 Brethren, let each one remain with God in that state in which he was called.

Not all of us are called to be Missionaries, Preachers, Traveling Evangelists but are to share Jesus where we are.
</font>[/QUOTE]Thanks for pointing that out, Diane. It is the truth. God give us the strength and opporunity to witness to those around us and grow where we're planted.

I am a music minister in Branson, Missouri... and most everyone knows that Branson is a unique place. Lots of performers here. I get an average of 5 calls a week from people wanting to "perform" in our church. I'm careful to screen these folks out... a church service is a time of worship, education, and encouragement in my mind. (Does this mean we can't smile and have a good time? NO!) We try to make sure the glory all goes to God, and those that sing, play, or offer testimony do it to the edification of the Body and no other reason. You can sure tell when this is not the case.

Do I think entertainment is sinful? No. I enjoy a good movie or a band or choir concert. I even love a good Christian concert once in a while. But I believe that entertainment should never come before ministry. That is what we're here for after all.

In His Grip,
joshua

 

I am happy to see this thread started. I was thinking of starting this topic myself since the emotions in worship thread was closed. I had some more things to say in response to DHK, written below.

King James Only-ists should certainly not oppose all entertainment. The KJV says not to be forgetful to 'entertain' strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

There are, of course, different meanings of the word 'entertain', but if you do have guests over to your home, and you think 'entertainment' is a sin, then you would need to make sure they are bored out of their mind.

Make sure your your conversation is dull. Make sure the food is bland, etc.

Also, if you have children, make sure they are always bored stiff. If entertainment is forbidden, then get rid of those toys, even the educational ones. If your kids are toddlers then they should be whining all the time, sicne you are not allowed to entertainment. No peekaboo is permitted for babies, because that is too entertaining.

Of course, I am being facetious, because the Bible does not teach that entertaining is a sin.

In the previous thread, DHK was arguing against having 'entertainment' in worship, arguing that entertainment is friendship with the world. I argued that whether music was entertaining or not is not the issue. If one delights in the Law of the Lord, then he may find studying the Bible to be 'entertaining.' If he loves the Lord, he may find singing praises to the Lord to be 'entertaining.'

The Bible does not condemn having good music in church. In the Old Testament, the Psalms told musicians to 'play skillfully' with a loud noise. The Psalms command listeners and/or singers to rejoice and be glad. Clearly our emotions are to be used in our expression of adoration to God as well.

Perhaps DHK has moderated his view a bit that entertainment equals frienship with the world, because he wrote in this thread:

"He had his Bible, and the joy of winning others to Christ. His entertainment was serving others, giving his life for Christ."

If serving others and giving ones life for Christ can be considered 'entertainment', then it makes no sense to argue that entertainment=friendship with the world. We cannot reject worship music on the basis that it is 'entertaining.' The issue is whether or not the music is _edifying._ It may be entertaining and still be pleasing to God. Those who love God will often find doing things pleasing to God to be quite enjoyable--even 'entertaining'.

So there are three types of 'entertaining' things. One type of entertainment is clearly good. The man who delights int he things of God may find doing things pleasing to God to be entertaining. Studying scripture and discussing it with others, participating in forums like this one to study the word, singing praises to God, playing beautiful music to praise God-- giving God the best of one's talents, etc.

Another type of 'entertainment' is neutral. It may be good or bad. Playing baseball may fall into this category. Playing baseball can be a good thing. Kids might play baseball for fun. They also get exercise out of it. Some people may play baseball or go to baseball games and build up relationships with others, and use these relationships to be a witness for Christ. On the other hand, one could also put these kinds of entertainment before God, watching baseball all the time on TV and never praying or reading the Bible, playing golf and never assembling with other believers, etc.

Then there are forms of entertainment that are evil: adultery, fornication, going to the nudy bar, getting wasted, getting high on crack, playing hurtful practical jokes on others, cutting people down at ones own expense.

Is entertainment 'worldly'? It depends on the entertainment. John lists three types of things that are in the world: the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life. If 'entertainment' does not cause one to fall in one of these areas, how could one say that the entertainment is 'worldly'? The Bible warns against being worldly, but it also teaches us that God has given us good things to enjoy.

In a previous thread DHK implied that if someone liked watching baseball for entertainment, that this was akin to being a friend of the world, and enmity with God. I do not see any scripture for this definition of 'worldly.' The Bible does not condemn baseball. Personally, I find watching baseball to be about as boring as watching grass grow. Of all the major televised sports in the US, it is the one that gives participants the least amount of exercise. But I cannot see anything about watching baseball that makes it sinful as long as it is done with a clean concience and not done in excess. Is it a waste of time? One could argue that it is? But in some cases, one could argue that it is not for various reasons like exercise, building relationships, etc.

We should not judge other people as sinners with no basis whatsoever. If there is no statement or principle of scripture to forbid something, and the Spirit does not condemn it, how can we oppose it? Sin is not imputed when there is no law. Paul's saying, 'against which there is no law' seems to indicate that if there is no law against something, we should not generally consider it to be forbidden.

 

You haven’t given Scripture because there isn’t any. There isn’t any Scripture where God condones entertainment. This is a debate forum. The Bible is the basis of our discussion or debate. I don’t accept man’s rationalization. What is your Biblical precedent for entertainment? Does it make you more Godly? Closer to God? More Holy? What then?

I am teachable when the Word of God is presented. Show me from the Word of God, where I am wrong, and I will change my ways. So far you have presented no Scripture. I don’t run my life by other men’s opinions.
“Why am I here?’ For a number of reasons: One: I was appointed as a moderator of this forum. Two, I enjoy being here. And three, I enjoy challenging other believers to take a serious look at their own Christian life and examine it in the light of Scripture. When you resort to name calling instead of Scripture it simply is an indication that you have nothing to say on the subject and a warning that if you can’t stand the heat then get out of the fire.
“Why do I have a computer?” In my line of work it is an essential research and teaching tool. I don’t have games on it, and have no use for them.
I have answered your questions sufficiently but you have not provided Scripture for me.
What is wrong with professional sports? A lot. Idolatry comes close. Give me Scripture where God condones “entertainment” as defined in the dictionary? If you can’t do that, then obviously it is wrong. There are many examples of entertainment in the Bible, but Jesus never condoned any of them. I wonder why? “No man can serve two masters.”
The Scriptures (in James 4:4) make it clear; One is either a friend of the world or a friend of God. You can’t be both. You are an enemy of one or the other. Which are you?

How arrogant! To think that sinful creatures as us deserve any of the grace of God is absolutely ludicrous. The only thing that man deserves is an eternity in Hell, were it not for the grace of God. You don’t deserve anything. That is what the heathen say. All that you have, you have only because of the grace of God, not because of anything you have done. Your heart beats because of the grace of God that keeps it going. Your lungs operate because of God’s grace. That enables you to work. Any good health you may have is all due to the grace of God, and that includes the job that you have, and the money that you earn. All that you have is due only to the grace of God. You deserve nothing but hell! You deserve the wrath of God, but God in his mercy bestowed love on you instead. That is grace. The only reason you can earn money which you think you deserve (but don’t) is because of the grace of God.

You did. But it is arrogant and wrong. What you earn, you earn because God allowed you to earn and for no other reason. All that you have is of the grace of God. You have nothing to boast in. The money you have left over after giving to your church is still not your own. It belongs to God, and he expects you to be a good steward of it.

Luke 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
--What does the Lord expect? When you have done all that Christ expects you to do in this lifetime, then you ought to reply: “We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.” Sacrifice is key. Doing all that the Lord commands of us, is only our duty. In humility our answer should be: we are but unprofitable servants. We don’t deserve anything. We have only done our duty (if we have done it all).

He does; you don’t.

That is a rhetorical question that you don't believe anyways right? After all...you are on a computer. No, you believe it...but you believe the same as me. We are free to use leftover money in any way we wish so long as it is not sinful. And sports are not sinful.[/quote]
Sports can be very sinful. Just what do watch when you watch sports: The NHL fighting; the ABL brawls; the fighting that goes on between the players and the fans in the NBA; the ugly drunken brawls that take place between the fans and carry out into the streets causing much property damage in the world’s most popular sport—soccer; Didn’t you just love that episode where Mike Tyson bit off the ear of his opponent in the boxing ring? Naaah! Sports aren’t sinful; not in the least little bit. Couldn’t convince me! I wonder what that NHL strike was all about anyway? Perhaps it could be described in one word—how about “greed?” Sports sinful?? Or, how about when one of the most popular baseball players in the professional league spits into the face of the umpire because he didn’t like his call—all on national TV. Now that was a class act!! I wonder what all these “heroes” are teaching our children? How about the principle that violence begets violence?

Funny how often you make this accusation, but are never able to back it up; can’t document it; can’t find anywhere in any thread where anyone has called you an enemy of God and a friend of the world. If you can’t back up your accusations then I consider them as false accusations, and against BB rules.

Your Scripture is basically irrelevant. Read the context a little further on:
1 Corinthians 7:27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
--Paul’s entire passage was about marriage, not about discipleship, or our different callings.
The passages I quoted had to do with every Christian: the themes of worldliness, discipleship, following Christ, sacrifice, etc. Those are themes that not just full time workers need to be concerned about, but every believer.

I’d like to know what the average believers take is on Phil.1:29:
Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
--What is the teaching here? God’s will is not just for you to be saved; but also to suffer for his sake. That is a constant theme that runs through the Bible. The Bible doesn’t promise a bed of roses to the believer. It is a narrow road, a road of sacrifice, of denial of oneself, of taking up ones cross, of following Christ no matter what the cross, of putting your hand to the plow and not looking back.

That doesn’t mean one foregoes rejoicing in the Lord (it is a command). Or enjoying the fruit of the Spirit—joy and peace. But as far as I know the Bible’s teaching it does exclude the worldly entertainment of professional sports and such things as afternoon soap operas. If it doesn’t I would like to see some Scripture to the contrary. That is all I ask.
DHK

 

So if God doesn't give us enough suffering on his own, we should manufacture some for ourselves? What would be the point of this? It sounds oddly works-oriented, like the Medieval self-flagellists. Giving up things that are not sinful that we consider fun just because we feel inadequately persecuted is not going to make us more holy or acceptable to God. So what is the motivation?

 

Paul had a good take on sports. He understood the games. There is nothing wrong with watching a sporting event. Some people would try to make it out to be something bad.

I go to about 8 college football games a year. It is a good outlet for me and my family. We enjoy the time we spend together. It gets us away from the pressure of church where everyone wants my time.

To people that disagree with me. Lightenen up and enjoy the time God has given you. Be about His business but never forget God did not make us to dour and sour!!!!!!!!!!

 

DHK is right.

My question is simply this;

Exactly WHAT did Jesus mean when he said to deny oneself?

What?

Is "entertainment" denying oneself or catering to oneself?


You must ultimately decide this for yourself between God and you.

But know this. We must ALL stand before Christ one day and give account of every MINUTE of our lives as believers.

Will you be able to say on that day, "LORD, I was at that game for your glory."?

In HIS service;
Jim

 

Jim,

Besides posting on the Baptist Board, which is filled with entertainment, what other purposes do you have for your internet connection.

Joseph Botwinick

 

On the Lord condoning entertainment:

Did Christ not make wine our of water to further the celebration of a wedding? Are celebrations not entertainment by nature?

In the parable of the Prodigal Son, was not a line drawn between the "entertainment" the prodigal sought after and the "entertainment" provided by the father at his return?

Paul said, we have liberty to do all things BUT, some things aren't prudent for a Christian. He didn't give us a list. Why? Cause that's why God gave us brains and the Holy Spirit.

There shouldn't be an arguement here. God gives us the tools to decide for ourselves whether a certain activity is beneficial or not. He also holds out forgiveness if we make a wrong choice. We have no high priest other that Christ Himself, to give us orders. That means if He hasn't covered it in his Word then He considers us capable of making the decision ourselves.