Ephesians 1 Clarified

[utilyan]

Only those whom God died for will receive it. Did God die, universally for all...or is it limited to those God has chosen?

I indeed benefit from Jesus atoning sacrifice, which was offered on my behalf 2000 years ago.
How can I make that claim? Because I was chosen and adopted before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

"Because I was chosen and adopted before the foundation of the world."

^Notice the part that is always left out....... "he chose us in him before the foundation of the world"

in him.

Why is IN JESUS LEFT OUT?

Because in their head being CHOSEN ELECT is what saves.

Ephesians 2

11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

YOU WERE NOT IN CHRIST.

You think you were IN , OUT , back in again? No. When did you get OUT of Christ then?

You had no promise, no hope, NO GOD, no foundation no nothing, there was no covenant for you, EXCLUDED, SEPARATE from Christ.

It is until after "who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ"


"that we should be holy and blameless before him"

That doesn't say you are saved.

God has chosen for everyone no to sin, Doesn't mean no one will sin.


CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT.

The problem is your starting with presumed philosophy and reading it into the text.

From the very beginning of Ephesians 1 its addressed to those who are already born again, "saved"

1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: 2Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.


So we see SAVED PEOPLE who are now IN CHRIST have been chosen for what? -->that we should be holy and blameless before him.



Whenever you see the word CHOSEN or ELECT you need to ask FOR WHAT and not presume its for salvation every time.

 

[AustinC]

"Because I was chosen and adopted before the foundation of the world."

^Notice the part that is always left out....... "he chose us in him before the foundation of the world"

in him.

Why is IN JESUS LEFT OUT?

Because in their head being CHOSEN ELECT is what saves.

Ephesians 2

11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

YOU WERE NOT IN CHRIST.

You think you were IN , OUT , back in again? No. When did you get OUT of Christ then?

You had no promise, no hope, NO GOD, no foundation no nothing, there was no covenant for you, EXCLUDED, SEPARATE from Christ.

It is until after "who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ"


"that we should be holy and blameless before him"

That doesn't say you are saved.

God has chosen for everyone no to sin, Doesn't mean no one will sin.


CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT.

The problem is your starting with presumed philosophy and reading it into the text.

From the very beginning of Ephesians 1 its addressed to those who are already born again, "saved"

1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: 2Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.


So we see SAVED PEOPLE who are now IN CHRIST have been chosen for what? -->that we should be holy and blameless before him.



Whenever you see the word CHOSEN or ELECT you need to ask FOR WHAT and not presume its for salvation every time.

Of course we are chosen in Christ. We would not be made righteous were we not in Christ.
Being in Christ does not negate God choosing to adopt us and place us in Christ.

Why would anyone attempt to claim that they did something that caused God to do something? God is Sovereign. God ordains and chooses. God makes us alive with Christ.

 

[utilyan]

Of course we are chosen in Christ. We would not be made righteous were we not in Christ.
Being in Christ does not negate God choosing to adopt us and place us in Christ.

Why would anyone attempt to claim that they did something that caused God to do something? God is Sovereign. God ordains and chooses. God makes us alive with Christ.

The point is Ephesians 1 has nothing to do about being elect on to salvation. And that those IN CHRIST were not always since before the foundation in Christ , As Ephesians 2 says.

 

[Barry Johnson]

"Because I was chosen and adopted before the foundation of the world."

^Notice the part that is always left out....... "he chose us in him before the foundation of the world"

in him.

Why is IN JESUS LEFT OUT?

Because in their head being CHOSEN ELECT is what saves.

Ephesians 2

11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

YOU WERE NOT IN CHRIST.

You think you were IN , OUT , back in again? No. When did you get OUT of Christ then?

You had no promise, no hope, NO GOD, no foundation no nothing, there was no covenant for you, EXCLUDED, SEPARATE from Christ.

It is until after "who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ"


"that we should be holy and blameless before him"

That doesn't say you are saved.

God has chosen for everyone no to sin, Doesn't mean no one will sin.


CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT.

The problem is your starting with presumed philosophy and reading it into the text.

From the very beginning of Ephesians 1 its addressed to those who are already born again, "saved"

1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: 2Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.


So we see SAVED PEOPLE who are now IN CHRIST have been chosen for what? -->that we should be holy and blameless before him.



Whenever you see the word CHOSEN or ELECT you need to ask FOR WHAT and not presume its for salvation every time.

Also v 5 is saved people being predestined AFTER becoming IN HIM are then predestined to the ADOPTION as defined in Romans 8.23 as the redemption of the body .

 

[Barry Johnson]

Of course we are chosen in Christ. We would not be made righteous were we not in Christ.
Being in Christ does not negate God choosing to adopt us and place us in Christ.

Why would anyone attempt to claim that they did something that caused God to do something? God is Sovereign. God ordains and chooses. God makes us alive with Christ.

Were not Adooted at conversion . Rom 8 .23 . We recieve the Spirt OF adoption till then .

 

[Barry Johnson]

The point is Ephesians 1 has nothing to do about being elect on to salvation. And that those IN CHRIST were not always since before the foundation in Christ , As Ephesians 2 says.

Election and Predestination are not the same also.
Predestination is of existing saints to adoption/glorification, not sinners to conversion. (Eph. 1:5, 11; Rom. 8:23, 29-30)

Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)

Adoption is the future redemption of the body, not conversion. (Rom. 8:23, 15-17; Gal. 4:1-6)

Sinners become sons of God through the new birth, not through adoption. (John 1:12-13)

 

[Barry Johnson]

Of course we are chosen in Christ. We would not be made righteous were we not in Christ.
Being in Christ does not negate God choosing to adopt us and place us in Christ.

Why would anyone attempt to claim that they did something that caused God to do something? God is Sovereign. God ordains and chooses. God makes us alive with Christ.

Predestination is of existing saints to adoption/glorification, not sinners to conversion. (Eph. 1:5, 11; Rom. 8:23, 29-30)

Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)

Adoption is the future redemption of the body, not conversion. (Rom. 8:23, 15-17; Gal. 4:1-6)

Sinners become sons of God through the new birth, not through adoption. (John 1:12-13)

 

[Sai]

Predestination is of existing saints to adoption/glorification, not sinners to conversion. (Eph. 1:5, 11; Rom. 8:23, 29-30)

Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)

Adoption is the future redemption of the body, not conversion. (Rom. 8:23, 15-17; Gal. 4:1-6)

Sinners become sons of God through the new birth, not through adoption. (John 1:12-13)

That doesn’t make any sense.

 

[Barry Johnson]

That doesn’t make any sense.

How so ?

 

[AustinC]

The point is Ephesians 1 has nothing to do about being elect on to salvation. And that those IN CHRIST were not always since before the foundation in Christ , As Ephesians 2 says.

You are entirely missing the point of Paul's letter to the Ephesians.

Adoption, election, predestination, chosen are all referring to we believers having been made children of God, in Christ.

You are trying to create a dichotomy that is not presented by Paul.

 

[AustinC]

Were not Adooted at conversion . Rom 8 .23 . We recieve the Spirt OF adoption till then .

We have gone over this ad nauseum. You are entirely wrong in your understanding of Romans 8 in regards to election and adoption. Therefore, you screw it up in Ephesians 1 as well.

 

[AustinC]

Election and Predestination are not the same also.
Predestination is of existing saints to adoption/glorification, not sinners to conversion. (Eph. 1:5, 11; Rom. 8:23, 29-30)

Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)

Adoption is the future redemption of the body, not conversion. (Rom. 8:23, 15-17; Gal. 4:1-6)

Sinners become sons of God through the new birth, not through adoption. (John 1:12-13)

Wrong. Your attempt to dichotomize God's work in the believer causes you to misunderstand what God has done for His children.

 

[Barry Johnson]

We have gone over this ad nauseum. You are entirely wrong in your understanding of Romans 8 in regards to election and adoption. Therefore, you screw it up in Ephesians 1 as well.

23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption to wit, the redemption of our body.
Only an ideological possessd mind could possibly read this and ignore the fact that we are not Adopted at conversion .

 

[Barry Johnson]

Wrong. Your attempt to dichotomize God's work in the believer causes you to misunderstand what God has done for His children.

You haven't the first idea ,what God has done in salvation , not a clue . The longer you are in Calvinism the further away you are from understanding the bible . The philosophy? ok , you guys have it down perfect . The system is almost perfect and it takes great minds like Edwards, Pink , Calvin , Beza, sproul, piper , White , Mouler, Owen , Grudem, to weild it about .
This is the deception and its how the lesser mortals get sucked into it . Who doesn't what all the answers pre packaged with neat bow on top ?

 

[AustinC]

23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption to wit, the redemption of our body.
Only an ideological possessd mind could possibly read this and ignore the fact that we are not Adopted at conversion .

As usual, you neglect the full scripture to create an interpretation that is skewed. We have gone over this. You are wrong.

 

[Barry Johnson]

As usual, you neglect the full scripture to create an interpretation that is skewed. We have gone over this. You are wrong.

Then what else does this mean ?
Rom 8 .23 ( just before the ' Golden Chain of redemption ' so called )
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

 

[AustinC]

You haven't the first idea ,what God has done in salvation , not a clue . The longer you are in Calvinism the further away you are from understanding the bible . The philosophy? ok , you guys have it down perfect . The system is almost perfect and it takes great minds like Edwards, Pink , Calvin , Beza, sproul, piper , White , Mouler, Owen , Grudem, to weild it about .
This is the deception and its how the lesser mortals get sucked into it . Who doesn't what all the answers pre packaged with neat bow on top ?

I read what God clearly says. That's good enough for me. What John Calvin had to say, I don't even know. Do you wish to quote him for us?

 

[Barry Johnson]

I read what God clearly says. That's good enough for me. What John Calvin had to say, I don't even know. Do you wish to quote him for us?

About what ?

 

[Sai]

How so ?

I’ll have to read the Calvinist responses on this thread to answer. It just appears to be an attempt to get around the obvious that God predestined by choice whom he wanted to be saved.

 

[Barry Johnson]

I’ll have to read the Calvinist responses on this thread to answer. It just appears to be an attempt to get around the obvious that God predestined by choice whom he wanted to be saved.

There is nothing that says that ,at all . No verse ever says Predestined to be saved or Elected to be saved . You would think with all the fuss it would actually say that, but it actually doesn't.