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Ephesians 1 Verses 1-5

Dave G

Well-Known Member
In the second place, Paul says to these Christians, that, “God has chosen them in Himself before the foundation of the world”. Interesting, that Paul does not use the Greek word, “ἐκλεκτός” (elect), but rather, “ἐκλέγω” (choose). This latter word is also used in John 6:70, “Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen (ἐκλέγω) you twelve, and one of you is a devil?”, where it is also used for Judas.
" καθως εξελεξατο ημας εν αυτω προ καταβολης κοσμου ειναι ημας αγιους και αμωμους κατενωπιον αυτου εν αγαπη" ( Ephesians 1:4... Stephanus 1550, Beza 1598, Elzevir 1624, Scrivener 1898 ).
Source: Interlinear Bible: Ephesians 1:4 - Textus Receptus Bibles

I agree to an extent, and also submit that Paul was inspired to use the word, "εξελεξατο" ( not “ἐκλέγω” ) which, in the Greek, is in the past tense and means "has chosen".
This can be found in other passages such as Mark 13:20, where both "elect" and "has chosen" are clearly seen:

" And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days."

Other passages where we see this usage include:

Luke 10:42
Acts of the Apostles 1:2
Acts of the Apostles 13:17
Acts of the Apostles 15:7
1 Corinthians 1:27-28
James 2:5

Source: Greek Concordance: ἐξελέξατο (exelexato) -- 10 Occurrences
 
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Dave G

Well-Known Member
In the third place, we read, “that we would be holy and without defect before Him in love”. Paul here gives us the reason for this “choice”, or “desire” of God, “εἶναι ἡμᾶς”, “for us to be”, “holy and without defect before Him in love”. This is how God has decided in eternity past, that those who are in Jesus Christ, ought to live.
I agree.
In addition, if you'll notice the words, it very clearly tells us two things, not one:

1) That the believers at Ephesus were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.
2) so that they would be holy and without blame before God is love.

Here it is again for review:

" According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:" ( Ephesians 1:4 ).

In the fourth place, the “predestination” that Paul speaks of in verse 4, “προορίζω”, is to “decide beforehand”, that those who are the faithful saints, are “adopted” into the family of God. Not as the Reformed/Calvinists use this, that it means “predestination to eternal life”. This is not found in this passage at all!

" according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"
( Ephesians 1:4-5 ).

Here I see that the predestination found in verse 5 is to the believer's adoption of children, by Jesus Christ to Himself.

The context is clearly speaking of those who were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world...
Those from Ephesus that had believed the Gospel.
 
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37818

Well-Known Member
You are missing what Peter is saying here. He is writing to the Jews of the Dispora, who became believers in Jesus Christ. This is nothing to do with the doctrine of election to salvation. Also check the word order in the Greek.

" Πέτρος ἀπόστολος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ ἐκλεκτοῖς παρεπιδήμοις διασπορᾶς Πόντου, Γαλατίας, Καππαδοκίας, Ἀσίας καὶ Βιθυνίας"

1 Peter 1:1-2, "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the elect* strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, * According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. . . ."
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
1 Peter 1:1-2, "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the elect* strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, * According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. . . ."

Nothing about election to salvation
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
In the fifth place, we are told in verse 13 of this chapter, when this “adoption”, of these faithful saints takes place.
To me the passages states that the adoption took place when the choice was made by God to place someone in Christ:
Before the foundation of the world, just as verses 4 tells me.

This also agrees completely with many other passages, such as Acts of the Apostles 13:49, Romans 8:29-30, Romans 9:6-24, Ephesians 2:10, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, Revelation 17:8 and so forth.
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit”. In the Greek, the words, “ἀκούσαντες” and “πιστεύσαντες”, are not as in the KJV, “after ye heard”, and “after ye believed”. There is not sequence of time here, and they should be correctly translated, “upon hearing...upon believing”. These were at their time of accepting (hearing) the Gospel, by faith (believing), that they were made children of God (Sealed by the Spirit), is in ownership.
I see nothing wrong with the translation, my friend, but I do agree with the rendering you've provided.
To me, "after ye heard" and "after that ye believed" describes the same timing as "upon hearing...upon believing".
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
Nothing about election to salvation
For that exact wording and for added support for the Lord choosing people to salvation, please see 2 Thessalonians 2:13...
where the believers at Thessalonica were chosen to salvation through two things:

Sanctification of the spirit,
and belief of the truth.

In addition, David describes how it is that a person is blessed by the Lord in Psalms 65:4...
By God choosing them and that person then being caused to approach Him.

In other words, the Lord is the direct and only cause by which a person comes to Him.
Therefore ( and taking everything stated in John 6:29-65 into account ) those that do not come to the Father through Christ ( John 14:6 ) and were not given to Christ by the Father ( John 6:37-40, John 6:65 ), were never caused to approach.
 
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SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
But we oug
For that exact wording and for added support for the Lord choosing people to salvation, please see 2 Thessalonians 2:13...
where the believers at Thessalonica were chosen to salvation through two things:

Sanctification of the spirit,
and belief of the truth.

In addition, David describes how it is that a person is blessed by the Lord in Psalms 65:4...
By God choosing them and that person then being caused to approach Him.

In other words, the Lord is the direct and only cause by which a person comes to Him.
Therefore, those that do not come to the Father through Christ ( John 14:6 ), were never caused to approach.

3
For that exact wording and for added support for the Lord choosing people to salvation, please see 2 Thessalonians 2:13...
where the believers at Thessalonica were chosen to salvation through two things:

Sanctification of the spirit,
and belief of the truth.

In addition, David describes how it is that a person is blessed by the Lord in Psalms 65:4...
By God choosing them and that person then being caused to approach Him.

In other words, the Lord is the direct and only cause by which a person comes to Him.
Therefore, those that do not come to the Father through Christ ( John 14:6 ), were never caused to approach.

But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 ESV
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
I'm sorry, my friend, but I don't use that translation because I do not completely trust it to be the preserved word of God in my native language.
As I see it,
There are far too many departures in it from what I believe to be the preserved Greek texts for me to rely on anything that it tells me.

That said,
The Greek that I do trust clearly says here:

" ημεις δε οφειλομεν ευχαριστειν τω θεω παντοτε περι υμων αδελφοι ηγαπημενοι υπο κυριου οτι ειλετο υμας ο θεος απ αρχης εις σωτηριαν εν αγιασμω πνευματος και πιστει αληθειας"

Source: Interlinear Bible: 2 Thessalonians 2:13 - Textus Receptus Bibles,
Verse Analysis: 2 Thessalonians 2:13 - Textus Receptus Bibles


and is translated:

" But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:" ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13 ).

This clearly tells me that the Lord's choice of the believer to salvation was through two things:

1) The sanctification of the spirit
2) Their belief of the truth.
 
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SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, my friend, but I don't use that translation because I do not completely trust it to be the preserved word of God in my native language.
As I see it,
There are far too many departures in it from what I believe to be the preserved Greek texts for me to rely on anything that it tells me.

That said,
The Greek that I do trust clearly says here:

" ημεις δε οφειλομεν ευχαριστειν τω θεω παντοτε περι υμων αδελφοι ηγαπημενοι υπο κυριου οτι ειλετο υμας ο θεος απ αρχης εις σωτηριαν εν αγιασμω πνευματος και πιστει αληθειας"

Source: Interlinear Bible: 2 Thessalonians 2:13 - Textus Receptus Bibles,
Verse Analysis: 2 Thessalonians 2:13 - Textus Receptus Bibles


and is translated:

" But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:" ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13 ).

This clearly tells me that the Lord's choice of the believer to salvation was through two things:

1) The sanctification of the spirit
2) Their belief of the truth.

The Textual evidence is strong for both readings
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Ephesians Chapter 1 Verses 1-5

“Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God, to the saints who are at Ephesus, and the faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, even as He chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and without defect before Him in love, having predestined us for adoption as children through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His desire”

This is a much used passage by the “Reformed/Calvinists”, to try to “prove” from the Bible, that God has from eternity past, already “chosen” some, that is, “the elect”, for their salvation. And has “predestined” them to their salvation, without them having to do anything.

Does this passage actually say what these would have us believe? The answer is no. Their “theology” of “election/predestination”, are not found in this passage, nor in any other passage in the entire Holy Bible. Because, their understanding of this, makes the offer of the Gospel, which is to the entire human race, as Jesus says in Mark 16:15, “Go into all the world, and preach the Good News to the whole creation”. In the Greek the end reads, “πάσῃ τῇ κτίσει”, which is literally, “to every single person in Creation”, which is brought out by the use of the singular, “πάσῃ”, which denotes, “individuals”. It is not a “general” call through the preaching of the Gospel Message, but “particular”, to each and every human being.

In the first place, the passage in Ephesians 1, is addressed “to the saints who are at Ephesus, and the faithful in Christ Jesus”, which is to those who are already born-again believers.

In the second place, Paul says to these Christians, that, “God has chosen them in Himself before the foundation of the world”. Interesting, that Paul does not use the Greek word, “ἐκλεκτός” (elect), but rather, “ἐκλέγω” (choose). This latter word is also used in John 6:70, “Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen (ἐκλέγω) you twelve, and one of you is a devil?”, where it is also used for Judas. Our English word “choose”, can also have the meaning of “to desire, wish”.

In the third place, we read, “that we would be holy and without defect before Him in love”. Paul here gives us the reason for this “choice”, or “desire” of God, “εἶναι ἡμᾶς”, “for us to be”, “holy and without defect before Him in love”. This is how God has decided in eternity past, that those who are in Jesus Christ, ought to live. In Ephesians 2:10, we have very similar language used, “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them”. Here the word, “προετοιμάζω (hath before ordained)”, cannot refer to “predestination to life”, which is not what Paul is here talking about, but, that as believers we should live our lives doing good. Again, like in 1:4, this is seen as something that God has already “decided”, how those who are believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, ought to live their lives. We also note from Ephesians 2:10, that even though it says, that God has “ordained before”, how we ought to live, that not all those who are the saved, do so.

In the fourth place, the “predestination” that Paul speaks of in verse 4, “προορίζω”, is to “decide beforehand”, that those who are the faithful saints, are “adopted” into the family of God. Not as the Reformed/Calvinists use this, that it means “predestination to eternal life”. This is not found in this passage at all!

In the fifth place, we are told in verse 13 of this chapter, when this “adoption”, of these faithful saints takes place. “In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit”. In the Greek, the words, “ἀκούσαντες” and “πιστεύσαντες”, are not as in the KJV, “after ye heard”, and “after ye believed”. There is not sequence of time here, and they should be correctly translated, “upon hearing...upon believing”. These were at their time of accepting (hearing) the Gospel, by faith (believing), that they were made children of God (Sealed by the Spirit), is in ownership.
The first truth Paul expresses is that he is an Apostle by the “will of God”. That lays the foundation for everything that follows being the “will of God”.

The Greek word for “predestined” means “to mark out beforehand”. It is a surveyors term referring to marking a piece of land that is to be built upon in the future.

literally, God marked those who would be saved before the foundation of the world. There is no other way to understand this in context other than the reformed belief.

If your knowledge of Greek wasn’t so corrupted by your anti-reformed hatred and bias, you might have caught that.

peace to you
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
I agree.
To me it's also understood here that Paul is telling them things that the Lord wants them to know...

For example, why they believed on Christ and were sealed by the Spirit ( Ephesians 1:13-14 ), which is why they are being told the additional information about their being chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, predestinated to their adoption as children and so forth.

How is "predestination" compatible with "human free will"?
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
I agree to an extent, and also submit that Paul was inspired to use the word, "εξελεξατο" ( not “ἐκλέγω” )

you will find that the root word in the Greek, is the first aorist middle indicative of ἐκλέγω

AsI have said in the OP, this same word is used for the Choosing (ἐξελεξάμην, also in the middle) by Jesus Christ, of Judas, along with the other 11, in John 6:70. What do you make of this?
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
I agree.
In addition, if you'll notice the words, it very clearly tells us two things, not one:

1) That the believers at Ephesus were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.
2) so that they would be holy and without blame before God is love.

Here it is again for review:

" According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:" ( Ephesians 1:4 ).



" according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"
( Ephesians 1:4-5 ).

Here I see that the predestination found in verse 5 is to the believer's adoption of children, by Jesus Christ to Himself.

The context is clearly speaking of those who were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world...
Those from Ephesus that had believed the Gospel.

but the 2nd is the reason for the 1st, as the Greek says!
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Arminianism does not teach that anyone is chosen for salvation before they repent and believe
Arminianism teaches "foreseen individuals with foreseen faith" were chosen before creation. That view is precluded by scripture.
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
How is "predestination" compatible with "human free will"?
There is nothing free about human will. All who sin are slaves to sin. Sin is the master of human will and it does that which the master commands.

I thank God He did not leave us enslaved to sin but freed us by God Holy Spirit; by His grace we are saved according to the good pleasure of God’s will working with power in this world.

Thank you Lord Jesus

peace to you
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
The Textual evidence is strong for both readings
Not to me it isn't.
To clarify, I don't recognize anything that is , was or will be translated from the "Critical Text" in the Greek as being God's preserved words.
How is "predestination" compatible with "human free will"?
It isn't.
God's will always supercedes our will as His creations ( Daniel 4:35, Romans 9:19-20, Job 9:12, Job 42:2, Psalms 33:11, Psalms 115:3 ).

in addition, man's will is biased against the Lord and His ways.
We naturally hate Him and won't come to Him that we might have life.

In fact, the Lord Jesus tells us in many places that the world hates both Him and His people ( Proverbs 29:27, John 15:18, Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:9, Mark 13:13, Luke 21:17 ).
you will find that the root word in the Greek, is the first aorist middle indicative of ἐκλέγω
Again, I think that you will find that in the Greek, the word " εξελεξατο" is, once again, descriptive of something being done in the past tense...
"He has chosen".

Verse Analysis: Ephesians 1:4 - Textus Receptus Bibles
 
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Dave G

Well-Known Member
AsI have said in the OP, this same word is used for the Choosing (ἐξελεξάμην, also in the middle) by Jesus Christ, of Judas, along with the other 11, in John 6:70. What do you make of this?
I agree with your observation about Jesus choosing Judas, and about how the word is rendered.

but the 2nd is the reason for the 1st, as the Greek says!
In that passage, I agree.

The second is the reason for the first according to the context.

However, to me it makes the Lord's choosing of the believers at Ephesus "in Christ" before the foundation of the world, no less a fact.
For example, in just this letter alone, the Lord tells us much more about how and why He chose them in Christ before the foundation of the world.
 
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