Ephesians 1 Verses 1-5

[AustinC]

God chose His Redeemer before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4) and therefore corporately chose those who the Redeemer would redeem. However no individual was chosen for salvation before the foundation of the world because all those individually chose by God first existed as "not a people" and as having "not obtained mercy." 1 Peter 2:9-10. Thus individuals could not have been chosen before creation.

Total Spiritual Inability has been shown to be unbiblical nonsense numerous times. If the lost are in a "hardened state" why did God need to harden them in Romans 11?

John 6:37 - Everyone God gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never send away."
Note the tense, God gives, not God has given before creation. So this verse supports individual election during the lifetime of the believer.

This false assertion of yours has been addressed and shown wrong so many times, yet you keep asserting the same error. This is clearly a blind spot in your life, an obstacle you continually hit that you cannot pass.
When you live om an island of one, it should give you pause, but you refuse to pause.
My purpose in response is merely to show any new reader that your claim is not what God claims.

 

[Van]

This false assertion of yours has been addressed and shown wrong so many times, yet you keep asserting the same error. This is clearly a blind spot in your life, an obstacle you continually hit that you cannot pass.
When you live om an island of one, it should give you pause, but you refuse to pause.
My purpose in response is merely to show any new reader that your claim is not what God claims.

Calvinists post endless "taint so" posts but I post what scripture says. If Total Spiritual Inability were true, then God would not have needed to harden the people in Romans chapter 11. The fact (not assertion of opinion) that God did harden them proves to any objective reader of scripture that Total Spiritual Inability is a fiction of Calvinism. Multiple verses demolish the T, U, L and I of their TULIP.

 

[canadyjd]

….. If Total Spiritual Inability were true, then God would not have needed to harden the people in Romans chapter 11…..

That is a strange passage for you to quote as it proves God choses who will be saved.

Paul’s purpose in that passage is to explain why Jews (generally not exhaustively) reject Jesus as Messiah. That is the “hardening” Paul is speaking of.

They are “blinded” to the truth of Christ as Messiah because they are unable to believe God’s Messiah would die on a tree (cross) because OT says “cursed is the man that hangs on a tree”.

God chose this method of sacrifice, knowing most Jews would reject Jesus as Messiah and the gospel would then go to the Gentiles.

For those Jews chosen by God, enabled by Holy Spirit, they understand and accept Jesus as Messiah and respond to God’s intervention with faith.

The passage you referenced demonstrates God’s sovereignty in salvation.

Thank you for supporting reformed theology, even though you didn’t realize you were supporting it.

peace to you

 

[JesusFan]

Calvinists post endless "taint so" posts but I post what scripture says. If Total Spiritual Inability were true, then God would not have needed to harden the people in Romans chapter 11. The fact (not assertion of opinion) that God did harden them proves to any objective reader of scripture that Total Spiritual Inability is a fiction of Calvinism. Multiple verses demolish the T, U, L and I of their TULIP.

See Pharaoh, as already was hard and set against God due to being a sinner, but then The Lord completed that hardening for his glory!

 

[Reformed1689]

Calvinists post endless "taint so" posts but I post what scripture says.

This is not true, you often add to, take away, or change what it says to fit your logic.

 

[Van]

See Pharaoh, as already was hard and set against God due to being a sinner, but then The Lord completed that hardening for his glory!

So according to your absurd claim God hardened needlessly. Got it...

 

[Van]

This is not true, you often add to, take away, or change what it says to fit your logic.

Yet another personal attack, another false claim, another bogus misrepresentation. Here is what I said that the Calvinist says is not true...

If Total Spiritual Inability were true, then God would not have needed to harden the people in Romans chapter 11. The fact (not assertion of opinion) that God did harden them proves to any objective reader of scripture that Total Spiritual Inability is a fiction of Calvinism. Multiple verses demolish the T, U, L and I of their TULIP.

Note the statement is totally true. Did I add or take away or change Romans 11? Nope.

 

[Van]

That is a strange passage for you to quote as it proves God choses who will be saved.

Paul’s purpose in that passage is to explain why Jews (generally not exhaustively) reject Jesus as Messiah. That is the “hardening” Paul is speaking of.

They are “blinded” to the truth of Christ as Messiah because they are unable to believe God’s Messiah would die on a tree (cross) because OT says “cursed is the man that hangs on a tree”.

God chose this method of sacrifice, knowing most Jews would reject Jesus as Messiah and the gospel would then go to the Gentiles.

For those Jews chosen by God, enabled by Holy Spirit, they understand and accept Jesus as Messiah and respond to God’s intervention with faith.

The passage you referenced demonstrates God’s sovereignty in salvation.

Thank you for supporting reformed theology, even though you didn’t realize you were supporting it.

peace to you

What is strange is your suggestion I do not believe God chooses who will be saved.
God in fact hardened the unbelieving Jews. Full stop. To claim God did not harden them is to reject scriptural truth.

Scripture indicates God hardened to prevent belief of lost Jewish people, not that enabled some to believe. Thus you are presenting the exact opposite of what God's word actually says. This hardening is accomplished in the present, not when they were conceived

God's sovereignty in salvation is not at issue.

I did not support Reformed theology, that is your false charge and misrepresentation of truth.

 

[Dave G]

I see that you have nothing to say about Judas being one of the CHOSEN by Jesus Christ?

I'd like to answer this, if I may, and I believe that it has been pointed out in other threads:

" Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 He spake of Judas Iscariot [the son] of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve." ( John 6:70-71 ).

Judas was specifically chosen by the Lord Jesus in order to fulfill the prophecies in the Psalms ( John 17:11-12, Acts of the Apostles 1:16-20 ).

Of course, what Judas did fulfilled Scripture, but God did not "force" Judas to betray Jesus, it was his personal choice.

I agree, to an extent.

what extent?

To the extent that Judas willingly betrayed Jesus to the Sanhedrin, and that God used this for His glory in the bruising and crucifixion of His Son for His people.
Also, that it was Judas himself that was prophesied to do this, and that it was his deed to do.

In other words, the way that I understand the situation with Judas...

The Lord not only foresaw it in the knowledge sense, He had His Son choose Judas to be one of the twelve specifically to fulfill the Scriptures in the Psalms and other places, which tell of the Lord Jesus being betrayed.
Judas acted willingly and in concert with Satan working through him, and the Lord worked it all according to the counsel of His own will so that it would all fall together as He wanted it to.
It was prophesied to happen, and the Lord set things up in order for it to happen.

I hope that that helps to explain how I see it.


May God bless you, sir.

 

[Van]

Since Judas was so well qualified for the role of the betrayer, one might conclude his election was conditional.

 

[Dave G]

Since Judas was so well qualified for the role of the betrayer, one might conclude his election was conditional.

Some might, but I do not;
According to God's word, I see that his choice by the Lord Jesus as an apostle was, again, for a specific purpose...
To serve as betrayer and to fulfill the Scriptures in Psalms 41:8-9:

" I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me." ( John 13:18 ).

Therefore, I conclude that he was not chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 1:4 ),was not predestinated to the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself ( Ephesians 1:5 ) and was not foreknown by the Lord and predestinated conformed to the image of Christ ( Romans 8:29-30 );
But was instead a vessel of wrath fitted to destruction ( Romans 9:22-24).

He was not one of Christ's sheep, who were given to Him by His Father and that He would lose none of ( John 6:37-40 ).



As always,
I wish God's blessings upon you, Van.

 

[Van]

Some might, but I do not;
SNIP
As always,
I wish God's blessings upon you, Van.

Did anyone say or suggest Judas was chosen for salvation? Nope
Judas was well qualified to be chosen to fulfill the betrayer prophecy.