Ephesians 2:1-10. What Does Paul Say?

[AustinC]

you make me laugh! I know what the passage says! You like the others on here cannot produce a single verse from the Bible, that says the Lord first "makes alive" the sinner, to "enable" them to call upon Him. Nothing in the passage in Ephesians 2 says this. IF, you guys spend time reading what the Word says, without your theology, you will see that Paul is here showing how believers were in a lost state when in the world, how God saved them. Don't read into Scripture what it never says! You show from verse five, English or Greek, where it says that sinners are first "made alive", in order to be saved?

Read the chapter before this. You will see God has chosen from before the foundation of the world. Unlike us finite beings, God is not bound in time and thus forced to react to circumstances within time. He is not forced to wait for you and me to do something before he can save us or adopt us. We are not the hinge upon which the door swings.

Ephesians 1:3-6
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

Please read the entire letter to the Ephesians. In doing so you can get the whole of what God is conveying through Paul.

 

[SavedByGrace]

If they were made alive, then that presupposes they were dead. Dead in sin. And yes one is made alive or quicken inorder to call upon the name of the lord Ps 80:18

So will not we go back from thee:
quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.

So calling upon the name of the lord is evidence of having been saved or quickened, not the cause.

do you not understand the Bible's teaching on salvation? A sinner first must "repent for the forgiveness of their sins", and "believe in the Good News", only thereafter they can get saved. This is what Peter says in Acts 2:37-39

Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

Look at the order here. First REPENT; In the Name of Jesus Christ (faith), Secone, they are then saved, "shall receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit" in rebirth!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Read the chapter before this. You will see God has chosen from before the foundation of the world. Unlike us finite beings, God is not bound in time and thus forced to react to circumstances within time. He is not forced to wait for you and me to do something before he can save us or adopt us. We are not the hinge upon which the door swings.

Ephesians 1:3-6
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

Please read the entire letter to the Ephesians. In doing so you can get the whole of what God is conveying through Paul.

chosen, "that we should be holy and blameless before him", that is it! Not God has "chosen you to salvation"! In the Greek there is the "hina" clause (that), which is the purpose of the CHOOSING that should lead to Christians having holy and blameless lives before the Lord! Very simple without "unreformed theology"!

 

[AustinC]

chosen, "that we should be holy and blameless before him", that is it! Not God has "chosen you to salvation"! In the Greek there is the "hina" clause (that), which is the purpose of the CHOOSING that should lead to Christians having holy and blameless lives before the Lord! Very simple without "unreformed theology"!

he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

You are not reading the whole text. Right after saying that God chose us before the foundation of the world...so that we should be blameless before Him, God goes on to tell us He predestined us for adoption as sons...through Christ... according to...His will. Now, ask yourself this question. "Why did God not tell us that our adoption comes through repentance, according to human will? Why does God explicitly state that He chose us, he adopted us and he predestined us according to...His will, not our will?
Why?

 

[Dave G]

John 6 requires more than usual care in interpretation.

I found that reading it and believing it leads to understanding it better, but that the understanding comes over time as it sinks in to my addled brain.

Jesus says in the imperative mood, "Labor ... for the meat which endureth unto everlasting life" (v27).

I agree.
I also see that He's speaking to a mixed crowd of both His disciples, to whom it was given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God ( Matthew 13:10-11 ), and the rest of the Jews, to whom it was not and all things were done in parables in order to hide the truth from them ( Matthew 13:13-17, Luke 8:8-10, Mark 4:11 ).

He says that to believe in Himself is to "work the works of God" (v28-29)

In my opinion, that's one way of understanding it... but that's not how I do.
Rather, I clearly see this:

" Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." ( John 6:29 ).

That the work "of" ( by or from ) God ( not the work of men ) is to believe on Christ.
In other words, it is a work of God for someone to believe, not a work that we as men can do in and of ourselves.

To me, this is in perfect harmony with passages like Philippians 1:29, John 10:26-27, John 6:37-47, John 6:64-65, John 8:43-47, and many others that give us the reason(s) why some believe and some do not.
Those reasons are clearly spelled out in God's word, and we're not left with simply assuming that some men choose and some do not.

God's choice to reveal Himself to someone is the reason why people believe ( Matthew 11:27, Matthew 16:17 ).

 

[Dave G]

Is labor and work necessary for salvation? We all agree that can't be what He means, and so it is with much of the chapter ("Eat my flesh, drink My blood" - these also require personal action on the part of the one partaking; what is the significance?).

The significance is made known farther down in the chapter when Christ tells us this:

" When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62 [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life." ( John 6:61-63 ).

In other words, He point-blank tells the Jews who were offended at His words that they are spiritual words, not words according to the flesh.
Notice a little farther when Christ asks Peter and the disciples if they would go away as well...
and Peter tells Him, " ...to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.".

Jesus told them earlier that their ears and eyes were blessed, so I'm not surprised that most of the Jews went away...
It wasn't given to them to know or understand His words;

Only those that are "of God" will hear God's words ( John 8:47 ).
Please see John 8:43-47 for the answer to why the Jews, for the most part, did not hear or understand His words.

 

[Dave G]

Not God has "chosen you to salvation"!

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 tells me that He did, and that He called me by His Gospel.

 

[AustinC]

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 tells me that He did, and that He called me by His Gospel.

Compare and contrast:

2 Thessalonians 2:9-15
The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

 

[SavedByGrace]

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 tells me that He did, and that He called me by His Gospel.

That passage has been at some stage corrupted, and now has two distinct readings. And therefore not reliable to build a doctrine on this as the original is not certain.

1, "God from the beginning chose you for salvation" (KJV, NKJV, NASB, etc)
2, "God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved" (ESV, NIV, NLT, etc),

i.e, the first to be saved. as in Romans 16:5, "Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ"; and , 1 Corinthians 16:15, "I urge you, brethren—you know the household of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have devoted themselves to the ministry of the saints"

Textual evidence

• ἀπαρχὴν] B F G P 075 33 81 256 326 365 1573 1739 1881 1912 2127 2464 itc itdem itdiv itf itx itz vg syrh copbo Ambrose1/2 Didymusdub Pelagius Theodorelat(1/2) Cyril Euthalius John-Damascuscomm
• ἀπ' ἀρχῆς] א D K L Ψ 0150 6 104 181 263 330 424 436 451 459 614 629 630 1175 1241 1319 1852 1962 1984 1985 2127 2200 2492 2495 Byz Lect itar itb itd ite itg itmon ito vgms syrp copsa arm eth geo slav Ambrosiaster Ambrose Chrysostom Theodorelat(1/2) Varimadum Theodoret Vigilius John-Damascustext ς WH

 

[SavedByGrace]

Compare and contrast:

2 Thessalonians 2:9-15
The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

I see that you are using a translation that does not support the reading as found in the KJV, etc, "from the beginning chose you", which would have supported your case. The reading " first fruits to be saved" is as in Romans 16:5, and 1 Cor.16:15, where it is used for the "first converts" in the area!

 

[AustinC]

I see that you are using a translation that does not support the reading as found in the KJV, etc, "from the beginning chose you", which would have supported your case. The reading " first fruits to be saved" is as in Romans 16:5, and 1 Cor.16:15, where it is used for the "first converts" in the area!

I really don't care about the KJV vs the ESV. From what I have read, the ESV is more accurate to the greek and it is the translation my church uses. Therefore I use the ESV. Would you prefer I use the NLT?

NLT Bible. Ephesians 1:3-14

[3]All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ.
[4]Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.
[5]God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure.
[6]So we praise God for the glorious grace he has poured out on us who belong to his dear Son.
[7]He is so rich in kindness and grace that he purchased our freedom with the blood of his Son and forgave our sins.
[8]He has showered his kindness on us, along with all wisdom and understanding.
[9]God has now revealed to us his mysterious plan regarding Christ, a plan to fulfill his own good pleasure.
[10]And this is the plan: At the right time he will bring everything together under the authority of Christ—everything in heaven and on earth.
[11]Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God, for he chose us in advance, and he makes everything work out according to his plan.
[12]God’s purpose was that we Jews who were the first to trust in Christ would bring praise and glory to God.
[13]And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago.
[14]The Spirit is God’s guarantee that he will give us the inheritance he promised and that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so we would praise and glorify him.

 

[AustinC]

NLT Bible. 2 Thessalonians 2:5-15
[5]Don’t you remember that I told you about all this when I was with you?
[6]And you know what is holding him back, for he can be revealed only when his time comes.
[7]For this lawlessness is already at work secretly, and it will remain secret until the one who is holding it back steps out of the way.
[8]Then the man of lawlessness will be revealed, but the Lord Jesus will kill him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by the splendor of his coming.
[9]This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles.
[10]He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them.
[11]So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies.
[12]Then they will be condemned for enjoying evil rather than believing the truth.
[13]As for us, we can’t help but thank God for you, dear brothers and sisters loved by the Lord. We are always thankful that God chose you to be among the first to experience salvation—a salvation that came through the Spirit who makes you holy and through your belief in the truth.
[14]He called you to salvation when we told you the Good News; now you can share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[15]With all these things in mind, dear brothers and sisters, stand firm and keep a strong grip on the teaching we passed on to you both in person and by letter.

 

[AustinC]

NLT Bible. Ephesians 2:1-10
[1]Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins.
[2]You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil—the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.
[3]All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature we were subject to God’s anger, just like everyone else.
[4]But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much,
[5]that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!)
[6]For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus.
[7]So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus.
[8]God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God.
[9]Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.
[10]For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.

 

[SavedByGrace]

NLT Bible. 2 Thessalonians 2:5-15
[5]Don’t you remember that I told you about all this when I was with you?
[6]And you know what is holding him back, for he can be revealed only when his time comes.
[7]For this lawlessness is already at work secretly, and it will remain secret until the one who is holding it back steps out of the way.
[8]Then the man of lawlessness will be revealed, but the Lord Jesus will kill him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by the splendor of his coming.
[9]This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles.
[10]He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them.
[11]So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies.
[12]Then they will be condemned for enjoying evil rather than believing the truth.
[13]As for us, we can’t help but thank God for you, dear brothers and sisters loved by the Lord. We are always thankful that God chose you to be among the first to experience salvation—a salvation that came through the Spirit who makes you holy and through your belief in the truth.
[14]He called you to salvation when we told you the Good News; now you can share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[15]With all these things in mind, dear brothers and sisters, stand firm and keep a strong grip on the teaching we passed on to you both in person and by letter.

yeah, but nowhere does it say that they were "chosen to salvation"! BIG difference. Time to quit your silly games

 

[AustinC]

yeah, but nowhere does it say that they were "chosen to salvation"! BIG difference. Time to quit your silly games

Nowhere does it say "This is the Trinity." Goodness, the text is hitting you between the eyes and you're making up semantic excuses for refusing God's sovereign work in choosing.
May I ask why you insist on being in control rather than allowing God to be in control?

 

[Tsalagi]

Christians don't need "good luck"!

Does the Bible say Adam is the son of God or not? Romans 5:14 says Adam is a figure of the One who was to come; do you seriously think God used an unregenerate man to prefigure Christ, the "last Adam" (1 Corinthians 15:45)? If the truth of Adam's salvation is inscrutable to someone, in my opinion they need all the luck they can get. ;-)

 

[Tsalagi]

All who were appointed to eternal life certainly do.

Acts 13:48
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

If you study the Greek of that text carefully in its context it indicates that the Gentiles who had clearly already been seeking to hear the gospel (Acts 13:42, 44) had assembled themselves on this subsequent day, lined themselves up (τάσσω, reflexive middle voice) to be present when it was preached, and believed when they heard it. "As many as were lined up with a view toward eternal life." This might be comparable to the crowds who used to line up at Billy Graham crusades. This understanding is also consistent with how the opposite reaction is described, the Jews who thrust the Word of God away from themselves (ἀπωθέω, reflexive middle) and "judged themselves unworthy" (κρίνω plus reflexive pronoun).

I don't expect to convince you of this interpretation, only to demonstrate that it is possible to understand Luke's words differently than you do.

 

[Brightfame52]

do you not understand the Bible's teaching on salvation? A sinner first must "repent for the forgiveness of their sins", and "believe in the Good News", only thereafter they can get saved. This is what Peter says in Acts 2:37-39

Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

Look at the order here. First REPENT; In the Name of Jesus Christ (faith), Secone, they are then saved, "shall receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit" in rebirth!

Its simple, a dead sinner cannot repent towards God until made alive.

 

[Brightfame52]

Does the Bible say Adam is the son of God or not? Romans 5:14 says Adam is a figure of the One who was to come; do you seriously think God used an unregenerate man to prefigure Christ, the "last Adam" (1 Corinthians 15:45)? If the truth of Adam's salvation is inscrutable to someone, in my opinion they need all the luck they can get. ;-)

Lk 3:38

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

 

[AustinC]

Does the Bible say Adam is the son of God or not? Romans 5:14 says Adam is a figure of the One who was to come; do you seriously think God used an unregenerate man to prefigure Christ, the "last Adam" (1 Corinthians 15:45)? If the truth of Adam's salvation is inscrutable to someone, in my opinion they need all the luck they can get. ;-)

Are you asking if Adam was a type of Christ?

You seem to struggle with God choosing to redeem whom he wills. Do you think Adam was unredeemed and is now spending eternity in hell? How does that relate to Ephesians 2:1-10?