Eschatology Agnostics

[church mouse guy]

I don't remember (nor care) who brought up what passage, because it's all relevant. Neither Tom nor I ever claimed that there are no more Jews. That is absolutely absurd. You completely misunderstand Paul's meaning about the "true Jew". Note that Paul himself uses that term in Philippians 3:3. Earlier I pointed our several passages from the book of Romans where Paul explains what he means by "true Jew" or "true Israel".

Have you ever thought about the fact that even the Jews refer back to Father Abraham? I bring that up because Abraham was not a Jew. By definition, the first Jew was Israel. This supports the view that there is no advantage for the Jew. A Jew is saved the exact same way that a Gentile is saved - by faith in Christ. To repeat a question that I asked earlier, are there one "people of God", or two? What do you base your answer on?

If I may ask, what specific prophecy of Moses do you refer to above?

Ezekiel 5:5 (KJV) Thus saith the Lord GOD; This [is] Jerusalem: I have set it in the midst of the nations and countries [that are] round about her.
Joshua 10:1 (KJV) Now it came to pass, when Adonizedek king of Jerusalem had heard how Joshua had taken Ai, and had utterly destroyed it; as he had done to Jericho and her king, so he had done to Ai and her king; and how the inhabitants of Gibeon had made peace with Israel, and were among them;
Ezekiel 23:28-29 (KJV) For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will deliver thee into the hand [of them] whom thou hatest, into the hand [of them] from whom thy mind is alienated: And they shall deal with thee hatefully, and shall take away all thy labour, and shall leave thee naked and bare:
Daniel 10:20 (KJV) ...lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.
Daniel 11:2-4 (KJV) ...and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia. And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will. And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.
Deuteronomy 28:63-66 (KJV) And it shall come to pass, [that] as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it. And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, [even] wood and stone. And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind: And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life:
Isaiah 49:3 (KJV) ...Thou [art] my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
Isaiah 49:15-16 (KJV) ...yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee. Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of [my] hands;
Jeremiah 31:34-36 (KJV) ...for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, [and] the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts [is] his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, [then] the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
1. Regathering of the People.
Ezekiel 37:11-12 (KJV) Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
Isaiah 11:10 (KJV) And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people;
Isaiah 11:12 (KJV) And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
2. Re-establishment of Israel (May 14, 1948)
Jeremiah 16:14-15 (KJV) Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.
3. Reclamation of the Land.
Deuteronomy 29:22-28 (KJV) So that the generation to come of your children that shall rise up after you, and the stranger that shall come from a far land, shall say, when they see the plagues of that land, and the sicknesses which the LORD hath laid upon it; [And that] the whole land thereof [is] brimstone, and salt, [and] burning, [that] it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein...Even all nations shall say, Wherefore hath the LORD done thus unto this land? what [meaneth] the heat of this great anger? Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the LORD God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt: For they went and served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew not, and [whom] he had not given unto them: And the anger of the LORD was kindled against this land, to bring upon it all the curses that are written in this book: And the LORD rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as [it is] this day.
Ezekiel 36:33-36 (KJV) Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause [you] to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities [are become] fenced, [and] are inhabited. Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined [places, and] plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken [it], and I will do [it].
Isaiah 35:6-7 (KJV) ...for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert. And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water...
Ezekiel 28:25-26 (KJV) Thus saith the Lord GOD; When I shall have gathered the house of Israel from the people among whom they are scattered, and shall be sanctified in them in the sight of the heathen, then shall they dwell in their land that I have given to my servant Jacob. And they shall dwell safely therein, and shall build houses, and plant vineyards; yea, they shall dwell with confidence, when I have executed judgments upon all those that despise them round about them; and they shall know that I [am] the LORD their God.

 

[church mouse guy]

I don't remember (nor care) who brought up what passage, because it's all relevant. Neither Tom nor I ever claimed that there are no more Jews. That is absolutely absurd. You completely misunderstand Paul's meaning about the "true Jew". Note that Paul himself uses that term in Philippians 3:3. Earlier I pointed our several passages from the book of Romans where Paul explains what he means by "true Jew" or "true Israel".

Have you ever thought about the fact that even the Jews refer back to Father Abraham? I bring that up because Abraham was not a Jew. By definition, the first Jew was Israel. This supports the view that there is no advantage for the Jew. A Jew is saved the exact same way that a Gentile is saved - by faith in Christ. To repeat a question that I asked earlier, are there one "people of God", or two? What do you base your answer on?

If I may ask, what specific prophecy of Moses do you refer to above?

4. Revival of the Language. (Hebrew)
Zephaniah 3:9 (KJV) For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
Jeremiah 31:23 (KJV) Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; As yet they shall use this speech in the land of Judah and in the cities thereof, when I shall bring again their captivity; The LORD bless thee, O habitation of justice, [and] mountain of holiness.
5. Resurgence of Israeli Military.
2 Samuel 7:9-11 (KJV) And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great [men] that [are] in the earth. Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime, And as since the time that I commanded judges [to be] over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies....
Zechariah 12:6 (KJV) In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, [even] in Jerusalem.
6. Re-focus of World Politics. (Israel gained control of Jerusalem on June 7. 1967)
Zechariah 12:2-3 (KJV) Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah [and] against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people:...
(The Eastern Gate is shut till Jesus returns)
Ezekiel 44:1-3 (KJV) Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it [was] shut. Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut. [It is] for the prince; the prince, he shall sit in it to eat bread before the LORD; he shall enter by the way of the porch of [that] gate, and shall go out by the way of the same.
Luke 21:22-24 (KJV) For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled...for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
(The Arabs 5.3 million square miles)
Genesis 17:20 (KJV) And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
(Conclusion)
Zechariah 12:1 (KJV) The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
Zechariah 12:3 (KJV) And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Zechariah 12:8-9 (KJV) In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David [shall be] as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Amos 9:13-15 (KJV) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt. And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit [them]; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

 

[Lodic]

With all due respect, Sir, Scripture does NOT say "Jews only". The Old Covenant was ended by Jesus at the 'Last Supper' & sealed by His death.

The events of 70 AD were part of the "days of vengeance" Jesus prophesied against that generation of Jews. A coupla generations later, they were later punished MUCH WORSE for murdering Jesus, beginning 135-136 AD when Hadrian expelled them from their land. They were despised & persecuted wherever they went for some 1800 years, culminating in the nazi holocaust. But after the nazis fell, God began to lift their punishment, and, 3 years later, they had a sovereign nation again, for the 1st time since the Babylonian conquest.

Now, the Orthodox Jews still live under the Old Covenant, and they fully intend to renew the system of sacrifices in their new temple when it's built. (There aren't too many Christian Jews.) This temple is necessary for the 'beast' to commit the "abomination of desolation" in. And Gabriel told Daniel what the AOD will be - the evil ruler setting up his statue in the temple & that man declaring himself to be God. Now, that event simply HASN'T YET HAPPENED! But Jesus said "when you see it, LOOK OUT! The great trib will be coming quickly!"

And again, it's VERY-OBVIOUS those events have NOT yet happened!

Good points, Sir, and you are absolutely right. However, the Jews were still practicing their animal sacrifices in the Temple until AD 70. That was the final nail into the Old Covenant's coffin.

I also agree that this was part of the "days of vengeance". While you make good points regarding how the Jews have suffered worse persecution, especially with the Holocaust, this wasn't about the number of Jews who died. This was about the final end of the Old Covenant. There will be no 3rd Temple, and no renewed animal sacrifices. What would be the point? The Abomination of Desolation was when the Roman army set up images of the emperor in the Temple. Joesphus said that when Jerusalem was taken, the Romans brought their idols into the Temple and placed them above the eastern gate to offer sacrifices. Bottom line - the "great tribulation" was nearly 2,000 years ago.

 

[Lodic]

No Antichrist was back in AD 70, no physical resurrection of the saints either!

The "Sea Beast" of Revelation was Emperor Nero (the 6th King). Why the reference to a physical resurrection of the saints?

 

[robycop3]

The reason Preterism IS the correct view is because the signs that Jesus prophesied came to pass just as He said, beginning with the Jewish Wars, culminating with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in AD 70.

The other events aren't included in the pret view. And while we all know J & the temple were destroyed, the pret view exaggerates this event into far more than what it actually was. And it was an exact fulfillment of what Jesus said! He said that when J was surrounded by armies, its destruction was near. And what happened? Vespasian brought an army, which combined with another nearby army, to surround J with armies.(plural). But political chaos in Rome caused V & his armies to head there, where V became Caesar. But 8 montha later, his son Titus returned with an army, & they sacked J & destroyed the temple, pulling it apart stone by stone as Jesus said.

He was not speaking of the end of the world, but of the end of the Old Covenant system. The "great tribulation" was not a worldwide event, but specific to Jerusalem.

MMRRPP ! WRONG !

The OC was ended by Jesus at the 'last Supper'. Matt. 26:[color=red}28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.[/color] And the great trib hasn't happened yet. The holocaust has been the worst disaster the Jews have suffered so far, but NOWHERE DOES SCRIPTURE SAY THE TRIB IS LIMITED TO THE JEWS! In fact, Rev. 16 describes several events that'll hit whe whole world.

The prophets often used the same type of "cosmological" language to describe major events (e.g. Isaiah 19:1). Jesus did the same in the Olivet Discourse, and John did the same thing in Revelation. History shows that these events happened exactly as prophesied.

No, it DOESN'T!
Please tell us who the "beast' was, who the false prophet was, & what the marka the beast looked like.

The phrase "every eye shall see Him" (Rev. 1:7) could also be taken to mean that everyone will understand.

No, it means just what it says! No reason to change what it SAYS!

Where does the Scripture say that Jesus will rule the world from David's throne for 1K years?

EASY!
First, we see Jacob prophesied that the rulership would stay with Judah til Shiloh(Jesus) comes. And God promised David that his dynasty would never end, in 2 Samuel 7.

And isaiah wrote, in Isaiah 9:6 "For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will i]">[i]rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace,
On the throne of David and over his kingdom,
To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness
From then on and forevermore.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will accomplish this.

See how easily history proves man's false interps of Scriptural prophecy wrong?

 

[Yeshua1]

Salvation left Judaism on Good Friday, not with the destruction of the Temple. Preterism seeks to allegorize everything. Every eye shall see Him means that every eye shall see Him.

Yes, when the curtain was ripped in half was when the sacrifices officially were ended by God! And when Jesus returns, history as we now know it officially ends, as will be the resurrection of the saints, and setting up here on the earth His Kingdom then!

 

[Yeshua1]

The "Sea Beast" of Revelation was Emperor Nero (the 6th King). Why the reference to a physical resurrection of the saints?

Per paul, when Jesus returns, all shall experience the physical resurrection of their body, first those who had died in Christ, and those still living!
The Beast of Revelation will be a ruler who had the power to do deluding signs and wonders, and will even be raised back from the dead, Nero did not do any of that!

 

[Yeshua1]

The other events aren't included in the pret view. And while we all know J & the temple were destroyed, the pret view exaggerates this event into far more than what it actually was. And it was an exact fulfillment of what Jesus said! He said that when J was surrounded by armies, its destruction was near. And what happened? Vespasian brought an army, which combined with another nearby army, to surround J with armies.(plural). But political chaos in Rome caused V & his armies to head there, where V became Caesar. But 8 montha later, his son Titus returned with an army, & they sacked J & destroyed the temple, pulling it apart stone by stone as Jesus said.




MMRRPP ! WRONG !

The OC was ended by Jesus at the 'last Supper'. Matt. 26:[color=red}28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.[/color] And the great trib hasn't happened yet. The holocaust has been the worst disaster the Jews have suffered so far, but NOWHERE DOES SCRIPTURE SAY THE TRIB IS LIMITED TO THE JEWS! In fact, Rev. 16 describes several events that'll hit whe whole world.



No, it DOESN'T!
Please tell us who the "beast' was, who the false prophet was, & what the marka the beast looked like.



No, it means just what it says! No reason to change what it SAYS!



EASY!
First, we see Jacob prophesied that the rulership would stay with Judah til Shiloh(Jesus) comes. And God promised David that his dynasty would never end, in 2 Samuel 7.

And isaiah wrote, in Isaiah 9:6 "For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will i]">[i]rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace,
On the throne of David and over his kingdom,
To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness
From then on and forevermore.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will accomplish this.

See how easily history proves man's false interps of Scriptural prophecy wrong?

The Bowls of wrath affect entire earth, not just Israel, and Israel herself shall go off into the wilderness of that time for shelter, not to be destroyed by God!

 

[Yeshua1]

Good points, Sir, and you are absolutely right. However, the Jews were still practicing their animal sacrifices in the Temple until AD 70. That was the final nail into the Old Covenant's coffin.

I also agree that this was part of the "days of vengeance". While you make good points regarding how the Jews have suffered worse persecution, especially with the Holocaust, this wasn't about the number of Jews who died. This was about the final end of the Old Covenant. There will be no 3rd Temple, and no renewed animal sacrifices. What would be the point? The Abomination of Desolation was when the Roman army set up images of the emperor in the Temple. Joesphus said that when Jerusalem was taken, the Romans brought their idols into the Temple and placed them above the eastern gate to offer sacrifices. Bottom line - the "great tribulation" was nearly 2,000 years ago.

Nope, as the Great tribulation affects all flesh, the whole world!

 

[Lodic]

With all those passages, I can't accuse you of not providing Scripture to make your point . I'm not quite sure what point you were trying to make with the first 9 passages. Israel was multiplied and ultimately glorified when the Messiah came from their line.

Points 1 and 2 are related, so I will address them together. 1948 did NOT see a prophecy fulfilled. Ezekiel 37's "dry bones" prophecy was fulfilled when Israel returned after the 70 year captivity (see Ezra & Nehemiah). While Isaiah 11:11-12 is often interpreted as being fulfilled in 1948, I don't believe that is the case. This more likely points to Judah's return from exile that we see in Ezra & Nehemiah (see 2 Samuel 7:10). Likewise, the Jeremiah passage may refer to the return from exile.
Deuteronomy 29:22-28 is a reference to the Assyrian captivity of Judah. Of course, Judah did return from captivity.

Backing up to Ezekiel 36, this is not a prophecy of Israel becoming a nation. Rather, this is a promise of cleansing and healing (v. 25). Modern Israel is largely atheistic. (I believe that Tel Aviv has the largest homosexual population in the world.) Why would God bless them? God did not restore the land as a reward for unbelief.

I haven't gone through "part 2" yet.

 

[Yeshua1]

With all those passages, I can't accuse you of not providing Scripture to make your point . I'm not quite sure what point you were trying to make with the first 9 passages. Israel was multiplied and ultimately glorified when the Messiah came from their line.

Points 1 and 2 are related, so I will address them together. 1948 did NOT see a prophecy fulfilled. Ezekiel 37's "dry bones" prophecy was fulfilled when Israel returned after the 70 year captivity (see Ezra & Nehemiah). While Isaiah 11:11-12 is often interpreted as being fulfilled in 1948, I don't believe that is the case. This more likely points to Judah's return from exile that we see in Ezra & Nehemiah (see 2 Samuel 7:10). Likewise, the Jeremiah passage may refer to the return from exile.
Deuteronomy 29:22-28 is a reference to the Assyrian captivity of Judah. Of course, Judah did return from captivity.

Backing up to Ezekiel 36, this is not a prophecy of Israel becoming a nation. Rather, this is a promise of cleansing and healing (v. 25). Modern Israel is largely atheistic. (I believe that Tel Aviv has the largest homosexual population in the world.) Why would God bless them? God did not restore the land as a reward for unbelief.

I haven't gone through "part 2" yet.

Ezekiel prophecy is still yet future though, as Israel never was spiritually reborn again unto the Lord, as that would await the coming of the NC unto her at the time of the Second Coming of Christ, as at that time Jeremiah 31 will be fulfilled, she will have her King, Messianic Age etc!

 

[robycop3]

Good points, Sir, and you are absolutely right. However, the Jews were still practicing their animal sacrifices in the Temple until AD 70. That was the final nail into the Old Covenant's coffin.

NEWP!
Jesus ended it at the 'Last Supper' as I showedya from Scripture. However, the Orthodox Jews don't believe He is Messiah & still live under the OC. They plan to resume animal sacrifices when they build their new temple.

I also agree that this was part of the "days of vengeance". While you make good points regarding how the Jews have suffered worse persecution, especially with the Holocaust, this wasn't about the number of Jews who died. This was about the final end of the Old Covenant. There will be no 3rd Temple, and no renewed animal sacrifices. What would be the point? The Abomination of Desolation was when the Roman army set up images of the emperor in the Temple. Joesphus said that when Jerusalem was taken, the Romans brought their idols into the Temple and placed them above the eastern gate to offer sacrifices. Bottom line - the "great tribulation" was nearly 2,000 years ago.

Sorry, Sir, but all your points are WRONG. The OC was already "officially" over, as I showedya from Scripture, but the Jews didn't believe it, & still don't. The 3rd temple must be built for the AOD to occur. There were NO images of the emperor set up in the temple; the Romans simply destroyed it, seeking gold said to have been cached between its stones. And the "great trib" HASN'T YET OCCURRED! the proof for that is EASY! Just read Matt. 24:29-30!

**PRETERISM - PHONY AS A FORD CORVETTE!**

 

[Lodic]

Please tell us who the "beast' was, who the false prophet was, & what the marka the beast looked like.
The Beast was Nero. Revelation 17:9-12 is very telling. The location is obviously Rome. The 7 "kings" are the emperors from Julius Caesar through Galba. Nero was the 6th "king", and Galba was only in power a few months. The false prophet (aka the Land Beast) was Israel / the Jewish priesthood, who rejected God to make an alliance with the Roman Empire. The "mark of the beast" was not a literal "mark" like a tattoo, just as the "seal of God" is a literal mark for the 144K. Only those Jews who aligned with the Old Covenant system were "marked" for access into the Tem
No, it means just what it says! No reason to change what it SAYS!

EASY!
First, we see Jacob prophesied that the rulership would stay with Judah til Shiloh(Jesus) comes. And God promised David that his dynasty would never end, in 2 Samuel 7.

And isaiah wrote, in Isaiah 9:6 "For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will i]">[i]rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace,
On the throne of David and over his kingdom,
To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness
From then on and forevermore.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will accomplish this.

See how easily history proves man's false interps of Scriptural prophecy wrong?

Jesus stated that all life would have ended if he did not return to end the Tribulation, and that was Ad 70 event!

 

[Lodic]

Jesus stated that all life would have ended if he did not return to end the Tribulation, and that was Ad 70 event!

Chapter and verse, please.

 

[Yeshua1]

Revelation was penned down by Jon in 90's , so Nero was not the Beast!

 

[Yeshua1]

Chapter and verse, please.

Matthew 24:22
Mark 13:20

 

[Lodic]

NEWP!
Jesus ended it at the 'Last Supper' as I showedya from Scripture. However, the Orthodox Jews don't believe He is Messiah & still live under the OC. They plan to resume animal sacrifices when they build their new temple.



Sorry, Sir, but all your points are WRONG. The OC was already "officially" over, as I showedya from Scripture, but the Jews didn't believe it, & still don't. The 3rd temple must be built for the AOD to occur. There were NO images of the emperor set up in the temple; the Romans simply destroyed it, seeking gold said to have been cached between its stones. And the "great trib" HASN'T YET OCCURRED! the proof for that is EASY! Just read Matt. 24:29-30!

**PRETERISM - PHONY AS A FORD CORVETTE!**

I KNEW you couldn't resist the "Ford Corvette" comment. Then again, my daughter teases me for being predictable . For a guy who obviously knows history better than most, I'm surprised that you don't believe what I said regarding the images in the temple. Where does Scripture tell us that a 3rd temple will be built?

 

[Lodic]

Revelation was penned down by Jon in 90's , so Nero was not the Beast!

What evidence do you have for the late date of Revelation's writing?

 

[Calminian]

...The phrase "every eye shall see Him" (Rev. 1:7) could also be taken to mean that everyone will understand.

No, it really can't. You're backed into a corner to make it mean that for the sake of your theology, but it's just another summersault your theology requires.

Why not just trust the Bible, instead?

Where does the Scripture say that Jesus will rule the world from David's throne for 1K years?

Revelation.

 

[Calminian]

Nope, as the Great tribulation affects all flesh, the whole world!

Indeed.

Rev. 3:10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

There early Church was not spared the wrath of men. It will be spared the wrath of the Lamb, via the rapture.