Eschatology Agnostics

[church mouse guy]

With all those passages, I can't accuse you of not providing Scripture to make your point . I'm not quite sure what point you were trying to make with the first 9 passages. Israel was multiplied and ultimately glorified when the Messiah came from their line.

Points 1 and 2 are related, so I will address them together. 1948 did NOT see a prophecy fulfilled. Ezekiel 37's "dry bones" prophecy was fulfilled when Israel returned after the 70 year captivity (see Ezra & Nehemiah). While Isaiah 11:11-12 is often interpreted as being fulfilled in 1948, I don't believe that is the case. This more likely points to Judah's return from exile that we see in Ezra & Nehemiah (see 2 Samuel 7:10). Likewise, the Jeremiah passage may refer to the return from exile.
Deuteronomy 29:22-28 is a reference to the Assyrian captivity of Judah. Of course, Judah did return from captivity.

Backing up to Ezekiel 36, this is not a prophecy of Israel becoming a nation. Rather, this is a promise of cleansing and healing (v. 25). Modern Israel is largely atheistic. (I believe that Tel Aviv has the largest homosexual population in the world.) Why would God bless them? God did not restore the land as a reward for unbelief.

I haven't gone through "part 2" yet.

Don't kid yourself--the USA is the biggest sodomite nation in the history of the world.

 

[church mouse guy]

Correct, sir, we are NOT gonna agree about Nero, as I showedya incontrovertible PROOF that the pret view is WRONG! You can check out those FACTS about Nero in any encyclopedia or Roman history book. And I hope you're familiar with the Scripture I cited.

Nice weekend to you, too! It's supposed to get down to 16 degrees F. tonight here(southern Ohio) but we're used to it, as it happens every year.

We must be neighbors except I am quite a ways from the Ohio River but only about 3 hours from Cincinnati.

 

[robycop3]

Man! I mean how much clearer can it get?

Unfortunately, many prets have placed the words of their gurus such as Preston, Gentry, Alcazar, etc. over the words of GOD. even when Scripture PLAINLY proves those gurus wrong, as in this case!

 

[robycop3]

We must be neighbors except I am quite a ways from the Ohio River but only about 3 hours from Cincinnati.

I live in Lawrence Co.

 

[robycop3]

Don't kid yourself--the USA is the biggest sodomite nation in the history of the world.

"Sodomite" no longer means 'homosexual'. As a former cop, I'm familiar with sodomy laws, no longer enforced.

 

[church mouse guy]

"Sodomite" no longer means 'homosexual'. As a former cop, I'm familiar with sodomy laws, no longer enforced.

Yeah, I am so old that I am centuries behind the times. I have an inkling of what you are talking about. Indianapolis has a large homosexual population downtown, but downtown Indianapolis is somewhere that has little to offer because of the knock out game. They almost revived downtown but they can't keep stores and restaurants with so many homosexuals.

 

[Lodic]

Well, then, Sir, you're gonna hafta discard your preterism, as JESUS said, in Matt. 24:29 “But IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory."

So, if the great trib was in 70 AD as prets say, then either Jesus is long-overdue or the above Scripture is wrong. However, it's obvious that the pret blather is wrong. The trib has NOT happened yet!

Managed to get a few minutes free, so I wanted to check back in. This still comes down to how you interpret the passage above. If the "futurist" nonsense turns out to be correct, I will eat humble pie. If the Partial Preterist view is correct, I will just have the satisfaction of knowing that I was right. Having said that, I have no problem with admitting when I have been proven wrong.

 

[Covenanter]

Ezekiel prophecy is still yet future though, as Israel never was spiritually reborn again unto the Lord, as that would await the coming of the NC unto her at the time of the Second Coming of Christ, as at that time Jeremiah 31 will be fulfilled, she will have her King, Messianic Age etc!

Try reading Acts - you will find many thousands of Israel born again from Pentecost onwards, & the warning Peter gave at then end of Acts 3. Then read Hebrews, to learn about the New Covenant that Jesus established in his own blood.

The evidence for a pre-70 date for Revelation is the book itself - start in Rev. 1.

The "evidence for a late date is provided by Irenaeus, quoting Polycarp, is ambiguous with regard to whether John or his vision was seen in the 90s. It depends on "he" or "it" & was written in Greek & only known in Latin translation.

THere are many artiles on the Internet discussing the dating, e.g.

 

[Lodic]

Don't kid yourself--the USA is the biggest sodomite nation in the history of the world.

I didn't say that Israel was the largest sodomite nation in the world. My point is that Tel Aviv has a surprisingly large homosexual population. Again, why would God bless a nation that does not honor Him, since Israel is largely secular?

 

[robycop3]

I didn't say that Israel was the largest sodomite nation in the world. My point is that Tel Aviv has a surprisingly large homosexual population. Again, why would God bless a nation that does not honor Him, since Israel is largely secular?

God promised to restore both Judah and Israel & make them one nation again. And he also said He'd "cleanse" them of false worship, idolatry, etc. He did NOT say Judah or Israel had to be true to Him before He restored them. He will impress Himself upon Judah & Israel when His time comes.

Thus far, we see Judah partially restored; most Jews still live outside Israel, and we see no sign of the rest of Israel restored yet. But God didn't say He'd do it overnight, nor set any kind of timetable.

However, we DO see signs of His prophecy coming to pass with the establishment of Judah, with Jerusalem as its capital again. THERE'S SIMPLY NO RATIONAL DENYING THAT PROPHECY IS BEING FULFILLED LITERALLY ! ! !

 

[robycop3]

Managed to get a few minutes free, so I wanted to check back in. This still comes down to how you interpret the passage above. If the "futurist" nonsense turns out to be correct, I will eat humble pie. If the Partial Preterist view is correct, I will just have the satisfaction of knowing that I was right. Having said that, I have no problem with admitting when I have been proven wrong.

With all due respect, there's simply NO rational reason for a Christian not to believe Jesus' own words literally, exactly as written. We may or may not live to see His prophecy fulfilled, but please remember, the parts of the Olivet Discourse that HAVE been fulfilled were fulfilled LITERALLY, TO THE LETTER!

 

[Yeshua1]

God promised to restore both Judah and Israel & make them one nation again. And he also said He'd "cleanse" them of false worship, idolatry, etc. He did NOT say Judah or Israel had to be true to Him before He restored them. He will impress Himself upon Judah & Israel when His time comes.

Thus far, we see Judah partially restored; most Jews still live outside Israel, and we see no sign of the rest of Israel restored yet. But God didn't say He'd do it overnight, nor set any kind of timetable.

However, we DO see signs of His prophecy coming to pass with the establishment of Judah, with Jerusalem as its capital again. THERE'S SIMPLY NO RATIONAL DENYING THAT PROPHECY IS BEING FULFILLED LITERALLY ! ! !

Jesus said that there is a time coming when Israel shall put faith in the false messiah, antichrist, but also that they will learn to say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord at His returning!

 

[Yeshua1]

With all due respect, there's simply NO rational reason for a Christian not to believe Jesus' own words literally, exactly as written. We may or may not live to see His prophecy fulfilled, but please remember, the parts of the Olivet Discourse that HAVE been fulfilled were fulfilled LITERALLY, TO THE LETTER!

I am still waiting to see all that historical evidence that AD 70 had the resurrection of all the saints in Christ, and Jesus sat up His Kingdom here!

 

[Lodic]

Per paul, when Jesus returns, all shall experience the physical resurrection of their body, first those who had died in Christ, and those still living!
The Beast of Revelation will be a ruler who had the power to do deluding signs and wonders, and will even be raised back from the dead, Nero did not do any of that!

Here's a question that I've asked a couple of times, but still don't quite understand the answer. I think we can agree that when Christians die, they go straight to Heaven. So, when Jesus returns, do all the saints who have died and went to Heaven get a new physical body, or do only those who are alive at His coming get a new body?
We will just have to disagree regarding the Beast, as I still believe Nero fits that bill. No matter. Nothing we can do about it, no matter who he turns out to be.

 

[Yeshua1]

Here's a question that I've asked a couple of times, but still don't quite understand the answer. I think we can agree that when Christians die, they go straight to Heaven. So, when Jesus returns, do all the saints who have died and went to Heaven get a new physical body, or do only those who are alive at His coming get a new body?
We will just have to disagree regarding the Beast, as I still believe Nero fits that bill. No matter. Nothing we can do about it, no matter who he turns out to be.

Those who died before that time return with Jesus to get the glorified bodies, and then the living is transformed into glorified forms!

 

[Lodic]

God promised to restore both Judah and Israel & make them one nation again. And he also said He'd "cleanse" them of false worship, idolatry, etc. He did NOT say Judah or Israel had to be true to Him before He restored them. He will impress Himself upon Judah & Israel when His time comes.

Thus far, we see Judah partially restored; most Jews still live outside Israel, and we see no sign of the rest of Israel restored yet. But God didn't say He'd do it overnight, nor set any kind of timetable.

However, we DO see signs of His prophecy coming to pass with the establishment of Judah, with Jerusalem as its capital again. THERE'S SIMPLY NO RATIONAL DENYING THAT PROPHECY IS BEING FULFILLED LITERALLY ! ! !

Do you believe the other 10 tribes will eventually return to Israel? While I don't believe 1948 was prophecy fulfilled, I do believe God has never taken His hand off Israel. I've heard of amazing things that happened during the 6 Day War of 1967. Also, it's certainly no small thing that Jerusalem has been restored as the capital.

 

[Lodic]

With all due respect, there's simply NO rational reason for a Christian not to believe Jesus' own words literally, exactly as written. We may or may not live to see His prophecy fulfilled, but please remember, the parts of the Olivet Discourse that HAVE been fulfilled were fulfilled LITERALLY, TO THE LETTER!

While we do not agree with everything, you do present a good case. Since you know your history pretty well, I have a question. When did you learn about the Jewish War and the destruction of Jerusalem? I had never heard of these events until around 10 or 12 years ago. Do you think this history is pretty well-known, or is it something that we just happen to stumble upon?

 

[Lodic]

Those who died before that time return with Jesus to get the glorified bodies, and then the living is transformed into glorified forms!

Thank you. That's the best answer I've seen. Do you think these will be similar?

 

[church mouse guy]

I didn't say that Israel was the largest sodomite nation in the world. My point is that Tel Aviv has a surprisingly large homosexual population. Again, why would God bless a nation that does not honor Him, since Israel is largely secular?

Not for them but for Him.

 

[robycop3]

Here's a question that I've asked a couple of times, but still don't quite understand the answer. I think we can agree that when Christians die, they go straight to Heaven. So, when Jesus returns, do all the saints who have died and went to Heaven get a new physical body, or do only those who are alive at His coming get a new body?

Actually, the souls of the dead go to SHEOL/HADES, as seen in Jesus' parable of the rich man & the beggar Lazarus. Hades is divided into 'paradise' & 'torments', as seen in that parable, and also by the FACT that Jesus told the repentant thief on the cross, "Today, you shall be with Me in PARADISE."

We will just have to disagree regarding the Beast, as I still believe Nero fits that bill. No matter. Nothing we can do about it, no matter who he turns out to be.

WHY do you still believe it when UNDENIABLE PROOF was shown to you that Nero could NOT have been the beast????????????????????????????????

The TRUE beast MUST meet EVERY Scriptural criterion for the beast EXACTLY, TO THE LETTER. And history shows Nero did NOT fulfill many of those criteria! I suggest you discard the garbage some charlatan gave you with that garbage in it! THEY LIED ! ! If they lied about THAT, how can you trust them to have told the truth otherwise ????????????????????????