eschatology continued 2

[prophecy70]

It is a retaining wall, built in 19BC, to expand the size of the Court of the Temple by a factor of about 3. It was there during the earthy ministry of Christ and He would have recognized it as a necessary part of the Temple complex. Without the retaining wall the Court would have collapsed.

But it's not part of the prophecy.

And Jesus went out from the temple, and was going on his way; and his disciples came to him to show him the buildings of the temple. But he answered and said unto them, ‘You see all of these things, do you not? Truly I say unto you, there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down’” (Matthew 24:1-2).

It's foundation for the mount.

 

[David Kent]

My aunt asked me what I wanted for my 7th birthday. I said "A bible." I still have it today. it was in march 1945. I had it rebound in the early 1960s.

But back to stars in prophecy. I commented on stars in Revelation 1 referring to people. If you go back to Genesis you will find the same, also the sun and moon.

 

[David Kent]

I refer to Joseph.

• Genesis 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
• 10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?
• 11 And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying.

His father and brothers knew exactly what the dream meant, and it wasn't literal stars, or a literal sun and moon.

 

[robycop3]

matthew 24 is about the destruction of the temple, it was fulfilled in ad 70 correct. That generation didn't pass away until it happened, TO THE LETTER. Correct

But it's also about Jesus' return, which has NOT yet occurred, nor have the events surrounding it.

Paul said in 2 Thess.2 those events wouldn't happen til the "man of sin" came, and it's obvious this hasn't yet happened.

And yes, J & the temple were destroyed, precisely as prophesied, and there's war, rumor of war, persecution of Christians, etc. going on right now, but there's been NO "beast/antichrist/man of sin", NO AOD, NO marka the beast, NO great trib with a hail of rocks, etc. & certainly NO glorious returna Jesus, SEEN BY ALL, as He said.

 

[robycop3]

Matthew 16:28 Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Was fulfilled to, some of them didn't die until the after the destruction.

But Jesus didn't return then.

But what they DID see was the resurrected Jesus, the First Fruits of His kingdom, the First to be permanently resurrected.

 

[robycop3]

I hope he wasn't alive in AD 70, what kind of question is that?

History would NOT have missed those events, had they already happened. It didn't miss the destruction of J & the temple, did it? The return of Jesus will be a much-larger event than that, and history would NOT have missed it! Remember, Jesus Himself WARNED us to not believe anyone who says He came in secret!

 

[prophecy70]

History would NOT have missed those events, had they already happened. It didn't miss the destruction of J & the temple, did it? The return of Jesus will be a much-larger event than that, and history would NOT have missed it! Remember, Jesus Himself WARNED us to not believe anyone who says He came in secret!

It is recorded, you just choose not to believe it.

you are waiting for the return of Jesus SCIFI edition.

 

[David Kent]

History would NOT have missed those events, had they already happened. It didn't miss the destruction of J & the temple, did it? The return of Jesus will be a much-larger event than that, and history would NOT have missed it! Remember, Jesus Himself WARNED us to not believe anyone who says He came in secret!

That's Rich,
Pre tribulationists say that He IS going to come in secret, they call it the "rapture" So according to your text above, no one should believe rapture teaching.

What they have said to me on another board is that

• Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
• 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
• 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
• 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
• 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
• 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Refers to the Rapture.

 

[John of Japan]

The three days I spent with Dr. Robinson at the annual meeting of the Evangelical Theological Society brought to my attention just how little I understood in the area of Textual Criticism. I thought I had a pretty good handle on the subject but after talking with Dr. Robinson I had to admit to myself I knew absolutely nothing of any consequence on the subject. That is hard on the ego but is very good for the soul.

I totally agree. And from what I've read, those on the eclectic side have been humbled by Dr. Robinson's huge reservoir of knowledge also.

 

[John of Japan]

Excuse me,
but that is completely ridiculous, shooting stars fall regularly, we had a shower a few weeks ago, meteors occasionally, what prophetic significance would that have? Meteors, as far as I know fall individually,

Actually, a "shooting star" is a meterorite (a falling meteor), and they fall regularly in bunches called showers. So you are wrong.

 

[John of Japan]

This whole topic going to be about statement I made about stars. SMH.....

Did you actually read the commentary you told me to read?

Yes, of course. And I have the real book version, all ten volumes, on my shelves and consult it regularly. After more than 100 years, it's still the best technical OT commentary there is.

 

[John of Japan]

It is recorded, you just choose not to believe it.

I know Robycop will answer, but I just have to say, where is it recorded that Jesus came in AD 70? Who wrote that he or she saw Jesus? I've asked preterists this for years, and not a single one of them has given an answer, so I'm hoping you can.

 

[TCassidy]

I've asked preterists this for years, and not a single one of them has given an answer, so I'm hoping you can.

Don't hold your breath.

 

[agedman]

I know Robycop will answer, but I just have to say, where is it recorded that Jesus came in AD 70? Who wrote that he or she saw Jesus? I've asked preterists this for years, and not a single one of them has given an answer, so I'm hoping you can.

As a long ago history teacher, I never read an account of the return as described in Scripture, either.

However, I have read of some who thought they were Christ..

Do Preterist or Amill. folks think John was demented when giving the account of Christ’s return in the Revelation?

 

[David Kent]

Actually, a "shooting star" is a meterorite (a falling meteor), and they fall regularly in bunches called showers. So you are wrong.

I don't see how I am wrong.
You just said what I just said.

Except that a meteorite shower is lots of space dust being burnt up in the atmosphere. A meteor is a large rock that falls to earth. There was a spectacular one over Russia few years ago. As TC showed, a great crater. There is supposed to be one in the Kaaba in Mecca which Muslims worship. It is said to be a stone fallen from heaven and which Jacob laid his head upon. Their tradition says it was originally white, but turned black over the centuries by its tears for the sins of the world.

That aside, there can be no prophetic significance in something that has always happened.

 

[TCassidy]

One example is the last years of Stafford (writer of “It is Well with My Soul”. He had what we might consider dementia in his final years and thought himself to be Christ.

Where did you get that information? My understanding is that Spafford, his wife, and their two daughters moved to Jerusalem and helped establish the American Colony which, long after his death, helped thousands of people displaced by WWI. He died at 59, in 1888, from malaria. I was not aware he made any Messianic claims.

There were some irregularities among the "American Colony" which may have included his wife, Anna, after his death, but I have never heard any of those irregularities attributed to him or his leadership.

 

[TCassidy]

I don't see how I am wrong.
You just said what I just said.

No, you said "Meteors, as far as I know fall individually." John pointed out that is wrong. Meteors often fall in clusters, as he said, in "showers."

In fact the Leonid shower can be seen on November 17 or 18, 2017, just before dawn. At its peak, in 1966, thousands of meteors per minute were visible over a span of 15 minutes.

 

[agedman]

Where did you get that information? My understanding is that Spafford, his wife, and their two daughters moved to Jerusalem and helped establish the American Colony which help thousands of people displaced by WWI. He died at 59 from malaria. I was not aware he made any Messianic claims.

There were some irregularities among the "American Colony" which may have included his wife, Anna, after his death, but I have never heard any of those irregularities attributed to him or his leadership.

After I posted it, I removed it, for I didn’t find the documentation online. We moved, and I have no access to the book that contained information about Spafford.

One interesting about Spafford, is he was not at all the man most would like to think of him as being.

Truth is, if the hymn was based on the man, it would be banned from Baptist hymnals.

Agnus Stewart wrote a brief that may be of interest to the readers and gives insight to the true life of both Spafford and the colony. It can be found on line Horatio Spafford: Not Well With His Soul

 

[David Kent]

I know Robycop will answer, but I just have to say, where is it recorded that Jesus came in AD 70? Who wrote that he or she saw Jesus? I've asked preterists this for years, and not a single one of them has given an answer, so I'm hoping you can.

OK that is one problem that I don't know the answer for.

But here is question for you. How can the return of Christ in Matthew 24:31 When everyone shall see him, which is before all those things are fulfilled, be before the "rapture" in Matthew 24:36-42, which is after all those things are fulfilled?

 

[John of Japan]

I don't see how I am wrong.
You just said what I just said.

Except that a meteorite shower is lots of space dust being burnt up in the atmosphere. A meteor is a large rock that falls to earth. There was a spectacular one over Russia few years ago. As TC showed, a great crater. There is supposed to be one in the Kaaba in Mecca which Muslims worship. It is said to be a stone fallen from heaven and which Jacob laid his head upon. Their tradition says it was originally white, but turned black over the centuries by its tears for the sins of the world.

That aside, there can be no prophetic significance in something that has always happened.

A meteor is "a small piece of matter that falls from space with great speed,producing a bright light as it enters the earth’s atmosphere (= the airsurrounding it)." (meteor Definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary)

That includes what you are calling "space dust."