eschatology continued 2

[TCassidy]

NO!!! What John wrote was:
"1. You are thinking in English. Hebrew grammar is quite different. If you have e-Sword, download the K&D commentary, which deals with the Hebrew in this passage."

Yes, that's what I said.

 

[prophecy70]

Because you don't seem to understand that "aster" is used of all heavenly bodies, not just stellar bodies. You have been proven wrong. Just learn from it and move on.

Clearly you still don't understand the point I was trying to make. Im sorry I can not use crayons and glitter to explain my threads on here. But alright, if you THINK you proved me wrong, ( I never made a statement to be proven right or wrong )

I was asking HIM to explain that verse. Not saying I only thought it meant the Big huge balls that are Stars today. I just picked one verse to see where he draws his conclusions on what is literal.

 

[Covenanter]

NO!!! What John wrote was:
"1. You are thinking in English. Hebrew grammar is quite different. If you have e-Sword, download the K&D commentary, which deals with the Hebrew in this passage."

Yes, that's what I said.

No. That was what John wrote.

What YOU said/wrote was:

"What he suggested was that you (the collective "you") read the passage in Hebrew rather than English and recommended K&D as the leading Hebrew experts to be your guild as you read the passage in Hebrew."​

He didn't suggest we read the passage in Hebrew, but that we download (obviously to read in English) the commentary "which deals with the Hebrew in this passage."

 

[prophecy70]

Oh I get Tcass, you thought he wanted me to learn Hebrew over the weekend and then download Daniel in Hebrew and read it. That is a honest mistake, I can see how you came to that conclusion.

 

[TCassidy]

He didn't suggest we read the passage in Hebrew, but that we download (obviously to read in English) the commentary "which deals with the Hebrew in this passage."

So you could think about what it says without reading it?

Your petty nitpicking just shows that you have lost the argument but are having trouble admitting it.

 

[TCassidy]

Oh I get Tcass, you thought he wanted me to learn Hebrew over the weekend and then download Daniel in Hebrew and read it. That is a honest mistake, I can see how you came to that conclusion.

No, Wrong again. He directed you to K&D, expert on Hebrew language, grammar, and syntax, to help you see how the Hebrew clarifies the issue.

So, I will thank you to not be less than honest when making claims about what I said, thought, or wrote, Shame on you.

 

[TCassidy]

Clearly you still don't understand the point I was trying to make.

I understand it quite well.

Im sorry I can not use crayons and glitter to explain my threads on here.

You really don't want to mock me. Really.

But alright, if you THINK you proved me wrong, ( I never made a statement to be proven right or wrong )

Oh, but you did. Here is what you said:

Revelations 6:13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.

The point was.... robycop3 is a literalist, a shooting star/ a meteor is not a star, never was a star and never will be a star.

And that statement has been proven false. You can deny it and dance around it all day, but you have been proven to have made a false statement.

I was asking HIM to explain that verse. Not saying I only thought it meant the Big huge balls that are Stars today.

So you said something (see above) you didn't really mean? I think there is a word for that.

 

[prophecy70]

And that statement has been proven false. You can deny it and dance around it all day, but you have been proven to have made a false statement.

A star is a luminous ball of gas, mostly hydrogen and helium, held together by its own gravity. Nuclear fusion reactions in its core support the star against gravity and produce photons and heat, as well as small amounts of heavier elements.

The word star can mean any heavenly body. It can also mean people and many different things. But I was talking about an actual star.

So literally, an asteroid is not a literal star. If we have to keep being literal here.

But that wasn't my point anyways.


My whole point of what I said to robycop3 was

sar·casm
ˈsärˌkazəm/
noun

1. the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.
   "his voice, hardened by sarcasm, could not hide his resentment"
   synonyms: derision, mockery, ridicule, scorn, sneering, scoffing;

I was being sarcastically being LITERAL about what a star is.

Did I actually think he thought actual stars, "you know the big sun things" could fall to earth? He's more educated than that. But other then that, if you know more about what I said then I did then more power to you. Not making this whole topic an argument because of assumptions.

 

[TCassidy]

Did I actually think he thought actual stars, "you know the big sun things" could fall to earth?

He believes that heavenly objects can, have, and will, fall to earth. You don't like that? Too bad. Get over it.

 

[prophecy70]

He believes that heavenly objects can, have, and will, fall to earth. You don't like that? Too bad. Get over it.

Yeah I was sarcastically taking it literal as real stars. As a "literal" joke. I hope he doesn't believe actual stars will fall. Anyways Moving on.

 

[robycop3]

Show me PROOF/EVIDENCE/DOCUMENTATION
Revelations 6:13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.
on how that is literally possible. Until you do that, your literal interpretation of the events is moot and untrue.

"Shooting star" or "falling star" have been terms for meteors since time immemorial! It's still used today, even though almost all people older than toddlers know what they are. And Jesus certainlt did. However, He was prophesying a coming event, not teaching astronomy.

Your silly attempt to discourage LITERALLY believing Jesus' prophecies falls flat on its snoot.

 

[robycop3]

My mum used to say, "There's none so blind as those who won't see"

OK, have you SEEN any fulfillment of the events we've been discussing?

 

[David Kent]

Not stars, not asteroids, not meteors, not meteorites.

• 20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

 

[robycop3]

So far on this thread we are discussing Gabriel's 70 weeks prophecy in Dan. 9, not preterism. The separation of week 70 from the first century fulfilment is refuted by the reference John of Japan cited.

You don't have to believe us - read the K&D commentary John referred us to.

The two subjects are interlinked.

 

[robycop3]

The bible is not referring to shooting stars, whih are not stars at all but fragments of space dust. They don't fall to earth but burn up in the atmosphere.
Revelation 1:16-20 tells us that stars represent people in prophey.

So, people are gonna fall from the sky?

I thought it only rained cats & dogs!

 

[robycop3]

Not stars, not asteroids, not meteors, not meteorites.

• 20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Symbolism, FULLY EXPLAINED!

I've never said there's no symbolism at all in Scripture. so no need to waste commentary about that.

But I HAVE said, & will continue to say, that most Scriptural symbolism is explained in other Scriptures, or its meaning is discerned by our hindsight and overview of ALL Scripture. Remember, God said KNOWLEDGE WILL INCREASE, especially in the "end-times", and that necessarily includes our knowledge of HIM. Here's a few "ferinstances" - Jesus' audience, including even His disciples, didn't understand His saying one had to eat His flesh & drink His blood to be saved, but WE know what He meant. And the people of His time/place on earth didn't know what "falling stars" are, or, for that matter, what stars actually are, and that the sun is a star.

There's NO indication that Jesus' Olivet Discourse prophecies are a bit symbolic. The ones that HAVE already cometa pass, such as the destruction of J & the temple, have been fulfilled LITERALLY, TO THE LETTER, & there's simply NO legitimate reason to not expect the rest to be fulfilled just-as-literally and exactly.

 

[Covenanter]

So you could think about what it says without reading it?

Your petty nitpicking just shows that you have lost the argument but are having trouble admitting it.

I, & others, took John's advice & read the K&D reference. I can't read Hebrew, but I can understand the English they used to explain the Hebrew - as John recommended.

We even accept the conclusion that K&D reach; a conclusion that supports what a simple reading of the English leads to -

the 70 weeks represent 490 continuous years;
the first 7 weeks cover the rebuilding after the return from Babylon;
the 62nd week (69th) leads to the baptism & anointing of Jesus;
the 70th week covers the 3 1/2 years of Jesus earthly ministry up to his crucifixion, & continues through the Apostolic ministry & concludes with the official stoning of Stephen;
Messiah confirms the covenant during the 70th week with those who believed his earthly ministry & then with those who believed the Apostolic ministry;
the covenant does not end after 7 years, but runs on as the new covenant;
the rejection of the Messiah is the reason for the AD 70 destruction of city & sanctuary;
separation of the 70th week from the 69 is a violation of the text.

​

​

 

[prophecy70]

Symbolism, FULLY EXPLAINED!

I've never said there's no symbolism at all in Scripture. so no need to waste commentary about that.

But I HAVE said, & will continue to say, that most Scriptural symbolism is explained in other Scriptures, or its meaning is discerned by our hindsight and overview of ALL Scripture. Remember, God said KNOWLEDGE WILL INCREASE, especially in the "end-times", and that necessarily includes our knowledge of HIM. Here's a few "ferinstances" - Jesus' audience, including even His disciples, didn't understand His saying one had to eat His flesh & drink His blood to be saved, but WE know what He meant. And the people of His time/place on earth didn't know what "falling stars" are, or, for that matter, what stars actually are, and that the sun is a star.

There's NO indication that Jesus' Olivet Discourse prophecies are a bit symbolic. The ones that HAVE already cometa pass, such as the destruction of J & the temple, have been fulfilled LITERALLY, TO THE LETTER, & there's simply NO legitimate reason to not expect the rest to be fulfilled just-as-literally and exactly.

matthew 24 is about the destruction of the temple, it was fulfilled in ad 70 correct. That generation didn't pass away until it happened, TO THE LETTER. Correct

 

[prophecy70]

Matthew 16:28 Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Was fulfilled to, some of them didn't die until the after the destruction.

 

[prophecy70]

OK, have you SEEN any fulfillment of the events we've been discussing?

I hope he wasn't alive in AD 70, what kind of question is that?