Eternal Security

[Ruht]

"So what is your view on blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. What if someone falls away and commits this sin. How is their eternal security secure?"

Why don't you tell me, for if you believe it is a literal sin in which a person can commit and then forever lose his salvation, then you will be in contradiction of yourself, and exposed in your error.

So go ahead, you tell me what you think it is and means.

God bless.

 

[Ruht]

"Ruht --

Ray Sutton is a seminary professor who

A: Doesn't waste his time with fools."

If he doesn't believe in eternal security, he himself is a fool.

"B: Doesn't argue with know-it-alls, since it is a useless exercise."

And I'm sure the "know-it-alls" are happy about that, because I am sure they don't enjoy arguing with a know-it-all fool, either.

"C: Knows more Greek and scripture in his little finger than you do in yer whole body."

Great, then when knowing more Greek in his little finger than I do in my whole body is the way in which one obtains salvation, then he will have had something very valuable.

Ask him the next time you see him, however, what "the cat is green" means, will you, please. See if his vast knowledge of Greek can interpret that.

And if he would like it in Greek, tell him to simply translate it into Greek and then interpret it to me, will you, please.

"Basically put, he would chew you up and spit you out for breakfast."

Basically put, then he should be able to tell me what I mean by "the cat is green." And if he can't then he has just been "chewed up and spit out at breakfast."

"Y'all guys have fun with this arrogant twit. I am outta here. He is a self made genius -- a legend in his own mind."

Either that or what he says is true, and you are just of the same stock that also hated Christ and the prophets.

"Brother Ed -- who knows the Lord and also knows when time can be put to better use."

Then I take it you won't be writing to me anymore?

Perhaps now you can go and spend more time with Ray Sutton.

Let the wind blow.

God bless.

 

[Alex]

Brother Ed:

Rhut is a very sarcastic person as you have already seen on this thread and another thread he got so bad that the moderator closed the thread. You had better spell right, type right and use proper grammer or he will jump on you as he has in the past and will do now.

He has a lot of good stuff but also a lot of garbage and to disagree with him puts you on satan's level. He is somewhat coufusing or confused with his posts. For instance, he claims that he cannot sin. I say we are saved by Christ's blood and are FORGIVEN of our sins from accepting untill we die and go to Heaven. He is right that we are "safe" from sin in the respect that we are forgiven in advance but to say you never will never sin again is saying you are on Jesus's level and are perfect.

I may be stupid in his eyes, but I do not know why he calls everyone "legalists". We both believe in the Trinity and on a lot of other issues. His sarcasm makes him come across as not so loving of a person as he claims to be. And, as someone stated, he is a "know it all" as no one so far comes across to him as even half way close to the truth. I and everyone else who is saved will sin many times before we die........except maybe Ruht.

So, Rhut, I hope this thread doesn't get shut down as the other did but you seem to be still the same old Ruht as before. Do you think you could be a little more civil with your replies to those who are against your OPINION as to the meaning of various scriptures?

I put this post as I was going to say the same thing on the other thread, but it was closed gefore I could. Now for a simple question: Do you or do you not believe you will sin again BUT are already forgiven and in that context, still free from going to hell? Second, Why don't you believe in free will OR are we all gobots(mis-typed..robots

, simply controlled by God with no freedom of choice as a Christian?
(No proof reading either)

Forgive me Rhut, for I have sinned, I DID do some editing!

God Bless..........Alex

[ August 28, 2002, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Alex ]

 

[Ruht]

"Rhut is a very sarcastic person as you have already seen on this thread and another thread he got so bad that the moderator closed the thread. You had better spell right, type right and use proper grammer or he will jump on you as he has in the past and will do now."

Feel better now, Alex?

"He has a lot of good stuff but also a lot of garbage and to disagree with him puts you on satan's level. He is somewhat coufusing or confused with his posts. For instance, he claims that he cannot sin.

God says I cannot sin, Alex. What are you going to try and accuse God of, for that?

"I say we are saved by Christ's blood and are FORGIVEN of our sins from accepting untill we die and go to Heaven. He is right that we are "safe" from sin in the respect that we are forgiven in advance but to say you never will never sin again is saying you are on Jesus's level and are perfect."

God says the saved cannot commit sin, and God says the saved are "perfected forever."

What are you going to say to God, Alex, when he asks you why you accused someone who believed him?

"I may be stupid in his eyes, but I do not know why he calls everyone "legalists"."

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor, Alex. I do not call "everyone" legalists, I call legalists, legalists.

"We both believe in the Trinity and on a lot of other issues. His sarcasm makes him come across as not so loving of a person as he claims to be."

Is what you are writing about me YET AGAIN, your version of "love," hypocrite?

Perhaps you can show whomever you are addressing, some of your posts from the thread which got shut down, Alex.

'Course I'm sure in those self-righteous eyes of yours your poo poo doesn't smell as bad as mine, huh Alex.

Such have always been the self righteous:

"Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee that I am not as bad as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." - Luke 18:10-14

"And, as someone stated, he is a "know it all" as no one so far comes across to him as even half way close to the truth."

You are very condescending and elite of yourself, Alex, for you reveal your heart in how you think "everyone" who is important thinks like you, as you boast that "no one so far comes across to [me] as even half way to the truth." Apparently you think I'm the only one in the world who believes what I do, and everyone else thinks like you.

I have seen this attitude of self-loving legalists like you, often in my life, your attitude and words are nothing new to me.

"I and everyone else who is saved will sin many times before we die........except maybe Ruht."

If that is what you choose to believe, then so be it. However, I choose to believe the Lord.

And he is watching you accuse me for believing him.

"So, Rhut, I hope this thread doesn't get shut down as the other did but you seem to be still the same old Ruht as before. Do you think you could be a little more civil with your replies to those who are against your OPINION as to the meaning of various scriptures?"

I have been just as civil as the threads written to me first. But of course your prejudice and self-righteousness prevents you from admitting this truth.

"I put this post as I was going to say the same thing on the other thread, but it was closed gefore I could. Now for a simple question: Do you or do you not believe you will sin again BUT are already forgiven and in that context, still free from going to hell?"

You have my answer. Instead of spending so much time trying to take a personal shot at me, like you devoted your time with me in the past, perhaps you should spend it in a more productive manner, and research and read what I have written.

I don't know who you think you are, but I am not here to win your approval, or to do your will, so you would do well to learn this.

I ask you, you who are self-righteous in your own eyes: How many posts have I written as a personal attack against you, verses the ones you have written against me? I'm not talking about defending myself against your garbage, but perhaps you can provide just a single post where I went off topic to devote writing an intiated post of personal attack against you, as you have just done with me with this post of yours, and as you have done to me in the past.

'Course the self-righteous are righteous in their own eyes, so I don't expect you to see what you are doing.

"Second, Why don't you believe in free will OR are we all gobots(mis-typed..robots simply controlled by God with no freedom of choice as a Christian?"

Ask me in another post in which you don't take a lengthy personal shot at me first, and I might be gracious enough to answer you.

"(No proof reading either)"

(OK, haughty person.)

"Forgive me Rhut, for I have sinned, I DID do some editing!"

You were REALLY going to let me have it, weren't you!

But I'm sure you were at least smart enough to realize that if you went overboard, and you got kicked or scolded, that you then wouldn't have Ruht to blame for something happening on the board again, huh, Alex.

Anything else, Alex, or should I expect more self-adulation and finger-pointing from you in your next post about me?

Let it all out, Alex, that's what I'm here for, let all that wind of yours blow, blow, blow.

"Then shalt thou call, and the Lord shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, and the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity..." - Isaiah 58:9

Let me tell you something, whoever you are, something I told another one of my accusers awhile back: Put your finger away, legalist, before the Lord turns it back on you. For my righteousness is of the Lord, not of myself, and you can't touch that.

"No weapon formed against thee shall prosper, and EVERY tongue that shall; rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the HERITAGE of the servants of the Lord, and THEIR righteousness if OF ME, sayeth the Lord." - Isaiah 28:17

God bless.

[ August 29, 2002, 01:17 AM: Message edited by: Ruht ]

 

[Bro. Curtis]

No offense, but how do you not sin ? I'm sure everybody wants to know. Don't just say a saved person cannot sin. (a clear violation of 1John 1:8) But tell us how you get thru everyday life without sinning, so we can too.

 

[Don]

What Ruht's saying is that there is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For if you walk after the flesh, then you walk not in the Spirit; and if you walk not in the Spirit, then you walk not with Christ.

[ August 29, 2002, 02:39 AM: Message edited by: Don ]

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Hi Don.

As much as I respect you, I'm in a little disagreement with you, not on what the Bible says, but what Ruht is saying. He seems to be implying that he is incapable of sin. That's what I'm getting.

 

[Don]

His implication would seem to be that as long as we are walking in the Spirit, we are incapable of sin.

Of course, I should really wait and see what he says about my summarization of his statements.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I completely agree with what you said. As long as we walk in the spirit, we won't sin. But walking in the spirit, all the time, is just impossible. I think we should avoid sin, and try to not sin on purpose, but my thoughts always go back to David's episode. Being in his home, instead of on the battle field, was the first step. The sin with Bathsheba(sp?), and the susequent killing of Uriah, he HAD to know he was sinning during the entire time, before he first lied down with her. I'm saying sometimes Christians sin willfully, and only repent when the results are shown.

And I also agree that we should wait and see how our friend responds.

 

[AITB]

Originally posted by Ruht:
I have been just as civil as the threads written to me first.

This sounds like you're living under 'an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth' in your replies...but Jesus superceded that...

Matt 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, `Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41 If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. 43 "You have heard that it was said, `Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

God says I cannot sin [...]

God says the saved cannot commit sin

Do you really believe you can't sin?

I find that astonishing. I've never met anyone who cannot sin. So, you go through life and you never sin, really? You never have a wrong thought? You never say something and then regret saying it? All your thoughts, words and actions are perfectly righteous?

AITB

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Hi, AITB

 

[AITB]

Hi Mr. Curtis!

Check this out...I was just on vacation for 2 weeks...

http://members.directvinternet.com/%7Emildenhall/photos/aug02/118-1851_IMG.JPG

Unfortunately the kids w(age 7 and 9) were only up for short walks. Not that we would have done any overnight or really serious hiking but a bit more walking would have been nice.

How to make this on-topic...hmmm...well, I sinned a lot on vacation but I did try not to! (And I did repent and confess...)

AITB

[ August 29, 2002, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: Clint Kritzer ]

 

[Clint Kritzer]

Hi Helen, been awhile.

I broke into your post above because the image you posted was larger than what our rules allow. I did, however, leave it as a link. GREAT shot!

Clint Kritzer
Moderator

 

[AITB]

Hi Clint, sorry, I forgot about the size rule

Thanks for leaving the link!

AITB

 

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Ruht:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />"So what is your view on blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. What if someone falls away and commits this sin. How is their eternal security secure?"

Why don't you tell me, for if you believe it is a literal sin in which a person can commit and then forever lose his salvation, then you will be in contradiction of yourself, and exposed in your error.

So go ahead, you tell me what you think it is and means.

God bless.</font>[/QUOTE]rhut i do no take a stance on once saved always saved. It is a doctrine that the bible does validate.

So it appears to me that it in no way contridicts what I beleive.

You are the one that is stateing that once saved always saved and at the moment you accept christ one cannot sin.

So what are your views? It seems that this would contridict what you beleive?

 

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Don:
What Ruht's saying is that there is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For if you walk after the flesh, then you walk not in the Spirit; and if you walk not in the Spirit, then you walk not with Christ.

So DOn this would lead one to belive that "Today I am walking after the spirit so I am of Christ, Tomorrow I walk after the flesh so I am not of Christ the next day You walk in the Spirit, so on and so forth.

So therefore you are saying that ones salvation is not secure.

Godbless

Brian

 

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Don:
His implication would seem to be that as long as we are walking in the Spirit, we are incapable of sin.

Of course, I should really wait and see what he says about my summarization of his statements.

Don I agree with that

 

[AITB]

Originally posted by ONENESS:
So DOn this would lead one to belive that "Today I am walking after the spirit so I am of Christ, Tomorrow I walk after the flesh so I am not of Christ the next day You walk in the Spirit, so on and so forth.

So therefore you are saying that ones salvation is not secure.

I think it depends whether you believe a Christian can 'walk in the flesh' and still remain 'saved'.

I would say yes, a believer can, since the flesh is still present. One hopes he/she doesn't, but it is possible, based on my understanding of Scripture AND based on personal experience

AITB

 

[Briguy]

Nils, Thanks again for your prayers. I guess I am alittle surprised that you are the only one who was thoughtful enough to let me know you were praying. "Being kind one to another" is a concept many on this board forget about.

As for predestination, I always go to the verse in Joshua that says "choose this day who you will serve, as for me and my house we will serve the Lord" That is obviously a famous verse but it indicates a choice unless you believe you can serve God and not be of God (saved that is). Also, in the NT there is a verse that says it is the will of God that ALL come to repentance (sorry the verse slips me at the moment). It seems to me that God has reserved a spot in Heaven for ALL and now it is our turn to accept that spot.

What are your thoughts on those two concepts when it comes to choice and no choice.

In Christ,
Brian

 

[AITB]

Originally posted by Briguy:
"Being kind one to another" is a concept many on this board forget about.

Yes, it's disappointing, isn't it? I would love to see Christians put more priority on kindness, in general.

Still, I can't deny I forget about it sometimes too

Seems like we can sin after all

AITB