Eternally Secure

[Preacher Ron]

Sounds like a have your cake and eat it to thing to me.

It's no wonder, you can't tell the deference between a lot of professing Christians, from the rest of the world!

Matthew 7

13. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


Preacher Ron

 

[Daniel David]

Ron, you have said nothing to discredit the doctrine of eternal security.

Please stop loitering on this thread. If you have something meaningful to say, do so. Stop making me post post's calling for you to post intelligent posts.

Call me sometime, we can do lunch.

 

[brianray]

The problem with O.S.A.S. doctrine is it takes accountability for the sinner out of the equation. If you and I look at a man who says he is saved, produces good fruit for a while then turns away, some will say that man was never saved, and I can say he was saved and lost his salvation. You would be wrong because all Christians are a work in progress, maybe he will change after God chastises him. I would be wrong because I don’t know if he was truly saved or not. We could argue over scripture all our lives and never come to a conclusion Wouldn’t we both be wrong for judging another man. Only God is worthy to judge. God has the ability to see from the end to the beginning, we do not. Even with freewill he knows the decisions we have made and will make, to accept him or reject him. When he saves you nothing can take you from his hand, you may stray from the path but he will find you. But today we have so many people who think they are saved, and OSAS teaches them not to look at their own lives because they think they always will be. They forget that merely recognizing there is a God isn’t the same as believing in and accepting him, and here lies their false sense of security. They never knew what being saved really means, yet they believe they are. It is sad to say they some will never be saved because this doctrine backs up their false claim of salvation. A true Christian knows he is saved, but as a work in progress he should never forget he is being saved. It is time we should stop squabbling and worrying about if a man can lose his seat in heaven, and worry more about how to get these people to attain one.

 

[donnA]

Ron, your verse does not prove your point, doesn't even touch it. It in no way says anyone can loose their salvation.

It's no wonder, you can't tell the deference between a lot of professing Christians, from the rest of the world!

Is this suppose to be an insult?
Actually the true Christians know they are secure, they trust in Jesus' power and ability to keep them, in effect, they believe scripture.

 

[Preacher Ron]

Daniel David I have only one last thing to say.

Proverbs 14:12
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.


Preacher Ron

 

[Daniel David]

Ron, here are some helpful thoughts since you asked:

1. Get informed.
2. Use Scripture wisely.
3. Offer an interpretation or theological idea when presenting Scripture.
4. If you still think you can lose your salvation, go back to No. 1.

Btw, I can meet at the Olive Garden on Highway 50 at 12:45. Thanks.

 

[Preacher Ron]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
Ron
Btw, I can meet at the Olive Garden on Highway 50 at 12:45. Thanks.

NO THANKS! I DO NOT EAT WHERE THEY SERVE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE'S.

Preacher Ron

 

[TC]

Originally posted by Preacher Ron:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Daniel David:
Ron
Btw, I can meet at the Olive Garden on Highway 50 at 12:45. Thanks.

NO THANKS! I DO NOT EAT WHERE THEY SERVE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE'S.

Preacher Ron </font>[/QUOTE]Why not? Jesus ate with the sinners and tax collectors. You just might meet someone that will hear the Gospel and get saved.

 

[All about Grace]

NO THANKS! I DO NOT EAT WHERE THEY SERVE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE'S.

Wow. You just disqualified yourself from the wedding of Cana and the Last Supper.

 

[JGrayhound]

The inconsistency of Baptists who reject Calvinism yet embrace "once saved, always saved" will forever amaze me.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by brianray:
The problem with O.S.A.S. doctrine is it takes accountability for the sinner out of the equation.

No it doesn't. The first part of Romans 6 addresses this issue.

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit makes one more accountable for sin, not less.

 

[Trotter]

Brianray,

You touched on a very good point. While I do not agree with you on someone loosing their salvation (God...the cosmic butterfingers?), you said

The problem with O.S.A.S. doctrine is it takes accountability for the sinner out of the equation.

Unfortunately, this is very true. But it shouldn't be.

In the vast majority of churches today, people are urged to "accept Christ into your heart" and "be saved". Very few people actually know or understand what salvation is. It is not weeping on the mourners' benches and repeating the sinner's prayer. But that is what usually happens.

If the person who just "got saved" keeps coming back to church, he/she just might actually come to believe in Christ and truly find salvation. But the truth is, once many of them dry their eyes and shake a few hands, they turn right around and walk out of the back door, never looking back.

These poor souls think that they are "alright" with God, and don't have to worry about hell. They go back out to their sinful lives, and there is no change. Oh, but they prayed the prayer. Oh, but they cried all over the "altar" and shook hands. They may even have signed their name on the church roll. But they are still riding the Hell Express at full tilt. Why? Because they never believed, they never put their faith in who Jesus is and what He has done.

As for accountability, all true Christians have the Holy Spirit residing within them. He holds us accountable, whether we want Him to or not. Yes, we can squelch His voice, we can hardened our hearts against Him, we can inore His gentle nudging, but He does not, will not, cannot leave a born-again child of God.

We, as Christians, are to be God's hands and feet. When we turn our back on Him, we are harming ourselves. God does not have to have our help to accomplish what He wishes, but He lets us in on some of the action occasionally.

Christians who serve God earn rewards in heaven. Those who do not serve Him (for whatever reason), do not earn those rewards. Those who are disobedient do not lose whatever rewards they may have earned before, but they pass up the opportunities to accumulate eternal riches on God's behalf. Unfortunately, most Christians don't think about this, or have never even heard of it.

God doesn't sell fire insurance. God doesn't provide lucky rabbits' feet. God doesn't play games. Either one belongs to Him, or he doesn't. Even those who choose to turn their backs on God still belong to Him (if they ever did to start with). God keeps His hand on His own, whether it be in blessing, or in chastestisement, He never releases anyone who belongs to Him. Praise His name for that!!!

In Christ,
Trotter

 

[freeatlast]

Originally posted by Revelator:
I know my standing on Eternal Security. I'd like to hear everyone else's views. After Salvation are we saved eternally, or can we lose it?

I know of only two possible ways to get unsaved, if it were possible. One is that we decide that we just do not want to be saved and turn from God.However scripture covers that.

19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

So we see that is anyone leaves the faith they were never saved.

The second way to get unsaved if it were possible is to return to the practice of sin, but scripture deals with that also.

9Whoever has been born of God does not (practice)sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot (practice) sin, because he has been born of God.

We see here that once we have been bron again we canot EVERY turn again to practice sin since His seed remains in us and we canot do it. With this it is clear that it is impossible to get unsaved.

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by Preacher Ron:
YOU DON'T THINK THAT YOU CAN WALK AWAY FROM IT?

Preacher RON

Since you didn't walk to it, you can't walk away from it. Jesus came to you. Trust me Preacher Ron, I was saved when I was 10 years old, but I rebelled from God in my teen years and never saw the inside of a church again until 5 years ago (14 years). I did so many things in those years of rebellion that I cannot speak of here, but praise be to God that one Sunday morning 5 years ago my little girl asked me to go to Sunday school with her and in that moment the Holy Spirit said that it was time. I have never looked back since. What really hurts is that I wasted all those years serving the devil, I could have shared the Gospel to so many folks. Now, I must live with their blood on my hands knowing that the judgement is coming. BUT, though those years were wood, hay, and stubble and will be burned up, I will still come out saved on the other end. (1Cor 3:15b but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.)

In closing, I myself thought that I was not saved when I went back to church, but my pastor preached a message on "How to know your saved" and the part that satisfied my question was when he said that Jesus saved us and keeps us (John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.) See, we did nothing to get salvation, therefore we can do nothing to lose salvation. Thanks for reading this and I hope it helps and makes since.

HomeBound

 

[freeatlast]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Preacher Ron:
YOU DON'T THINK THAT YOU CAN WALK AWAY FROM IT?

Preacher RON

Since you didn't walk to it, you can't walk away from it. Jesus came to you. Trust me Preacher Ron, I was saved when I was 10 years old, but I rebelled from God in my teen years and never saw the inside of a church again until 5 years ago (14 years). I did so many things in those years of rebellion that I cannot speak of here, but praise be to God that one Sunday morning 5 years ago my little girl asked me to go to Sunday school with her and in that moment the Holy Spirit said that it was time. I have never looked back since. What really hurts is that I wasted all those years serving the devil, I could have shared the Gospel to so many folks. Now, I must live with their blood on my hands knowing that the judgement is coming. BUT, though those years were wood, hay, and stubble and will be burned up, I will still come out saved on the other end. (1Cor 3:15b but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.)

In closing, I myself thought that I was not saved when I went back to church, but my pastor preached a message on "How to know your saved" and the part that satisfied my question was when he said that Jesus saved us and keeps us (John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.) See, we did nothing to get salvation, therefore we can do nothing to lose salvation. Thanks for reading this and I hope it helps and makes since.

HomeBound </font>[/QUOTE]Hello HomeBound,
I have heard many testimonies like this one, but my friend they are simply incorrect. Not because I say so, but because the bible teaches so.It is true that we cannot lose our salvation, but also true is that we cannot return to live in sin as you stated you did once we are saved. (1John 3:9) My friend let me be very direct here. I am not trying to mock or make you out bad, but I am telling you that your understanding of salvation and eternal security is incorrect. To be more clear you did not get saved at 10 years old. The reason I know this is because of 1John 3:9. I am glad that you finally did get saved and I hope that yuo got baptized again also, but it came later then you think according to scripture.
One other thing. You are not accountable for the blood of those people since you were not a Christian at the time. You clearly did not understand how to be saved since you were deceived into thinking you were, but now that you are, you are accountable for all who you do not warn. God bless.

 

[Askjo]

Study on the story of Peter. You will see how Peter get saved. Did he lose the salvation? Or Was he saved enternally? You will see the result of Peter's experience on the salvation.

 

[brianray]

Originally posted by brianray:
The problem with O.S.A.S. doctrine is it takes accountability for the sinner out of the equation.

No it doesn't. The first part of Romans 6 addresses this issue.

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit makes one more accountable for sin, not less. [/QUOTE]

Wasn't really trying to push my side, (I do believe in eternal security) just trying to say some people use this doctrine to back up their "I'm a Christian, just not practicing" philosophy.
The same people we find in,
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
These sinners I'm referring to are self-professing Christians who dont know what it is to have a true relationship with Christ. I dont believe these people have the indwelling of the Holy-Spirit and wouldn't be interested in reading Romans either.

 

[RaptureReady]

brianray, just to let you know, I sin daily and so do you. But, 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[freeatlast]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
brianray, just to let you know, I sin daily and so do you. But, 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

HomeBound,
I cannot speak for brianray, but I can tell you that the teaching that we all sin daily is another false teaching. Let me explain. First let me ask a question. What is there some sort of sin clock that goes off at the end of the day reminding us of the need to get in our daily sin??

I have went through this with many Christians who have been taught this false doctrine of sinning daily. I ask them this. Do you sin once every second? They say no. I then ask do you sin once every minute? They say no. I then ask do you sin once every hour? They say no. So then I ask well what makes it so necessary that we all sin every day? The answer is we don't have to. It is a choice based on our level of love or lack there of for the Lord.

The problem with the church today is that it has been fed a pack of lies by satan and then we believe them and pass them on. We do not all sin daily! We all sin from time to time, but it does not have to be daily!

When I come to the end of my day and I lay my head on the pellow and I go over my day with the Lord and I find absolutely no conviction where I have sinned against my Lord, guess what? I did not sin that day!!! Praise God!!!!

I will admit that I do not get a real long sring of days, but I am working on it. Will I ever get to the place that I never sin any more. I doubt it, but I will continue to strive for it and hope that I get many days in a row withoiut sin in my life. I pray that you strive for the same as well and get it done.

 

[brianray]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
brianray, just to let you know, I sin daily and so do you. But, 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Uhh, yeah. the only sinners I'm referring to are the lost who say they are saved, or truly think they are saved. Surely you know of some who have their name on a church book somewhere and think that's good enough. Keep feeling like I'm getting it from my own side sometimes but my posts I guess can be confusing, I work 12 hr. shifts with 45 min. drive each way so I'll stop my quick-posts until I have more time to communicate what I'm trying to say.