Evangelism

[Bob Dudley]

Hi Iconoclast,

I don't know. I guess you'll have to ask God. :thumbs:

I do know that anyone before the flood that had gotten on the ark would have been saved. I do know that all over the muslim world, God is giving them visions to seek out followers of Christ.

I also know that, if you turn your life over to God, He will use it to His best purpose and that will be better than anything we could have done with it ourselves. - even if He asks us to give our life for Him.

 

[evangelist6589]

Evangelist6589,

I think you are on the right track in that it absolutely IS God that gives the increase.

You speak like a Charismatic. What church do you attend?

However, it has been my experience that He really, really WANTS to give the increase. So, if you are giving an effective gospel presentation you should absolutely see, before your very eyes, people coming to a saving knowledge of Jesus. As much as we want to see people saved from an eternity in hell, God wants it infinitely more. The harvest really is very plentiful and the workers really are few. So, if a Christian is willing to open his mouth to declare Jesus, God will honor that with fruit though souls coming into the Kingdom.

If you are sharing the gospel with others (anywhere in the world) and you are not seeing people coming to Christ, you should re-examine your presentation.

I have used the same method for the last 10 years and I have seen God bring people to Him all over America, Africa, the far east, the middle east and the Caribbean. I have led people to Christ from all over Europe and South America. The gospel works EVEYWHERE. If you lift up Jesus people WILL come to Him - it is as predictable as the sun following the moon.

So the burden is on me to bring people to Christ? Its all about me and how I present the message?

Acts 18:9-11 (ESV)
And the Lord said to Paul one night in a vision, “Do not be afraid, but go on speaking and do not be silent, 10 for I am with you, and no one will attack you to harm you, for I have many in this city who are my people.” 11 And he stayed a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.

God encouraged Paul to continue to preach for God would bear fruit and bring the elect to salvation. Paul later spoke of God's elect.

2 Tim 2:10 (NIV)Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.

Read Romans 9 for a clearer presentation on the doctrine of election. According to the Bible converting people is not our God but that of God. All God wants of me is faithfulness to presenting the Gospel and he will produce results.

 

[evangelist6589]

Greetings Evangelist6589

I guess I'll start off by ignoring the digs and try to answer your questions in a loving manner...

1. Does this evangelism method heavily emphasize the depravity of man, hell, and his disobedience and rejection of God?

No need to do that. Read the Gospel of John (the only book of the Bible self identified as written to lead people to Christ). These principles are never emphasized for salvation in the Gospel of John. The Gospel of John talks about faith/believe over 80 times (more than the other 3 gospels put together). However, it does not use repentance once.

So why ignore the other gospels? Why pick and choose what you want the Bible to say? The Gospel of John does teach repentance but that requires a in-depth look at it.

http://www.gty.org/resources/articles/a238/repentance-in-the-gospel-of-john

Also read these verses

Luke 13:3-3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
Mt 4:17 From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”

Its not wise to ignore the other gospels. Its very wise to use the methods of Jesus in all the gospels in our evangelism efforts. Remember that Jesus often spoke on Hell. Do you speak on hell often? Maybe He did not in John, but he did so in the other gospels.

The gospel is very simple: We have sinned. There is a punishment for sin (eternal separation from God). Jesus paid that punishment, died both spiritually and physically on the cross and (3 days later) rose from the dead. If we put our trust in what He did on the cross, we will be saved.

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2. Does this evangelism method heavily emphasize the holiness of God and show the sinner as being in the hands of an angry God?

See the answer to question 1.

Again, not necessary. It is our job (each and every born again believer) to convey the gospel. It is God's job to convict and convince people about the gospel. If I use Scripture to show people the steps (above), the Holy Spirit can do His ministry to the lost. My job is rather simple, I never want to try and do God's job.

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3. Why does this method think that saying a prayer is what saves someone?

Never said it did. Actually, salvation is easier than that. The moment I ask someone if they would be willing to accept Jesus as their Savior, and they say "yes" they are saved. See, for example, Romans 10:13.
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4. Why is this method so convened with decisions and results? Why emphasize follow up? Did Philip do follow up in Acts? He did not. So why violate what the Bible teaches?

Not sure what you mean by "convened" but, if a house was burning down and I knew how to get people out, I would absolutely be interested in getting out as many as I can.

Um, follow up is part of the Great Commission - go back to Matthew 28:18-20. As for Philip, we don't know if he did any follow up or not - the Bible doesn't say. However, he was not the only one winning people to Christ in the book of Acts. The growth of churches throughout Acts is a testimony to follow up.

I go by what the Bible says and should not add in between the lines. If I do ad in between the lines I should not build an entire case on it. In this case follow up is not taught in the scripture.

Also, Paul was absolutely concerned with "numbers". That is why he told the elders of Ephesus that the blood of no man was on his hands. He wanted them to know he gave a clear gospel presentation and offer to be saved to each and every person in Ephesus.

Thats adding to the text. He was concerned with obeying God, not filling a mega church.

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Let me suggest you read "The Gospel, Evangelism, and God's Heart" (available on Amazon) written by yours truly, and then we can talk more about this.

And, I have worked with several people doing WOTRC (Way of the Ray Comfort). I usually applaud people that want to share the gospel. However, we are to share the gospel through the fruit of the Spirit and I have yet to see a single person use WOTRC with anything close to love. It usually comes across as condescending and mean. I don't intend to offend. I am just telling you what I have seen with my own eyes. Also, how sad is it to invite people to see a banquet and then never inviting them to enjoy the feast (invite people to accept Christ). And, while I am on a roll, what is it with the WOTRC people putting down Bill Bright and Campus Crusade for Christ? A lot of my growth as a Christian in the 70s came from their ministry. God DOES have a wonderful plan for your life.

Its not just Ray Comfort that emphasizes the law in evangelism. If you would read his quotes in his book The Way of the Master and check out the authors he mentions you will see that they also emphasized a similar method of evangelism. Check out the following book. The Law and the Gospel by Ernest Reisinger. Using the law to convict sinner of sin is a good way to do evangelism, and its not just taught by Ray Comfort as you think. People are sinners and headed to hell. People are very very sick and they need the doctor Jesus christ. But in order for people to get well they need to see that they are sick. The LAW shows them clearly they are very very sick and will die soon. Those that repent trust in Jesus and He makes them better. Your method of evangelism may not totally emphasize man's sinful condition.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Actually I believe in the sovereignty of God in salvation and all I believe in doing is preaching and witnessing and like the Christians in Acts trusting in God to bring forth the elect and add to the number. God may or may not choose to use me in bring His elect to salvation. So by that token I am not concerned with results only in obedience to the great commission and I evangelize for the glory of God anyways as it is His job to elect people to salvation.

Check out the book Evangelism and the sovereignty of God by Packer.

I do not think I will ever believe in Calvinism knowing the scriptures that I know.

 

[evangelist6589]

I do not think I will ever believe in Calvinism knowing the scriptures that I know.

Thats okay as neither does my wife. However we still can witness together.

 

[Iconoclast]

Bob Dudley

Bob...I asked you two questions;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Dudley


Point 2. As for "God has a wonderful plan for your life". I DO believe that God DOES have an awesomely wonderful plan for every person, something on this earth that is perfect for them. I just never use that when I am witnessing. So, again, I agree with you.

What was that awesomely wonderful plan for the world of the ungodly at the time of the worldwide flood of Noah's day?

What was that plan for millions who have lived in places in the world who have never heard of Jesus?

I don't know.

You said that you believed God has an awesomely wonderful plan for everyone on earth....now you say ...you do not know???

I guess you'll have to ask God

If God made such a statement anywhere in scripture...I would ask Him.
He has made no such statement, but You have....so I asked you these questions as your statement is a denial of several portions of scripture.

I do know that anyone before the flood that had gotten on the ark would have been saved.

ok....

I do know that all over the muslim world, God is giving them visions to seek out followers of Christ.

not really....God has given us His word .His word is complete.

 

[Iconoclast]

I do not think I will ever believe in Calvinism knowing the scriptures that I know.

You cannot believe it unless God allows you to.

 

[Bob Dudley]

Iconoclast, I get the impression you are twisting my words around just to argue. I believe God has a wonderful plan for everyone's life. It starts with salvation through His Son. Then, the more we surrender to His will, the more we fall in line with that plan. And, just because I don't know what the pan is, doesn't mean there is no plan.

Why is that so hard to understand?

 

[Bob Dudley]

Evangelist6589, "charismatic"? Where in the world did that come from? I am a fundamental, independent Baptist.

 

[padredurand]

Iconoclast, I get the impression you are twisting my words around just to argue. I believe God has a wonderful plan for everyone's life. It starts with salvation through His Son. Then, the more we surrender to His will, the more we fall in line with that plan. And, just because I don't know what the pan is, doesn't mean there is no plan.

Why is that so hard to understand?

"The thief comes only to steal, and kill, and destroy; I came that they might have life, and might have it abundantly.
John 10:10 NAS77


Sounds like a wonderful plan to me.:thumbsup:

 

[evangelist6589]

Evangelist6589, "charismatic"? Where in the world did that come from? I am a fundamental, independent Baptist.

Did you even attempt to answer my questions?

 

[Bob Dudley]

Did you even attempt to answer my questions?

Nope. Had to sleep. But, uh, try to play nice. What's up with the antagonistic attitude?

 

[Bob Dudley]

So why ignore the other gospels? Why pick and choose what you want the Bible to say? The Gospel of John does teach repentance but that requires a in-depth look at it.

John 20:31 says, "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."

I never ignore God's Word. Again, what is up with the antagonism?

I never said John didn't teach repentance. I said he doesn't use the word repentance in his Gospel. I said a person repents when they get saved, they just don't need to know what it is called. The Gospel of John was written to non-Christians with the purpose of getting them saved. John didn't expect his readers to do an "in-depth study". So, yes, repentance is in there conceptually, but the person repenting does not need to have a seminary degree to "get it".

Remember that Jesus often spoke on Hell. Do you speak on hell often? Maybe He did not in John, but he did so in the other gospels.

Sure, Jesus talked about hell quite a bit. However, the Gospel that was written to show people how to get saved, did not. Why do you find it so hard to understand that the Gospel of John was written by the Apostle John to get people saved. You should try to emulate that gospel.

I go by what the Bible says and should not add in between the lines. If I do ad in between the lines I should not build an entire case on it. In this case follow up is not taught in the scripture.

I'm not even sure what you are talking about here. Absolutely the Great Commission talks about follow-up. Read Mathew 28:20 in Greek. The word translated in the KJV as disciple (didasko) is completely about teaching your new converts. Maybe we have different ideas about what follow-up means.

Using the law to convict sinner of sin is a good way to do evangelism

I never said it wasn't.

People are sinners and headed to hell. People are very very sick and they need the doctor Jesus christ (sic). But in order for people to get well they need to see that they are sick. The LAW shows them clearly they are very very sick and will die soon. Those that repent trust in Jesus and He makes them better.

The Bible shows them they are sick. You (personally, as the evangelist) do not need to throw their sins in their face. That is God's job, not yours.

I recall, one time several years ago in WV, I was witnessing to a man in his 30s. I had just quoted Romans 3:23, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." No sooner did I get the words out of my mouth when he began weeping uncontrollably. He cried for about 5 minutes. When he finally regained his composure, he asked me, "How did you know what sins I did?" Of course, I didn't. But God did and God used His Word to convict that man's heart. I didn't have to do anything but quote the Word.

I get the impression that you are trying way too hard. Sharing the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ is not that hard.

Your method of evangelism may not totally emphasize man's sinful condition.

Seriously, I would suggest that you quit reading all those books for awhile and take some time to read how Jesus, John, Peter, Paul, Stephen and Philip led people to Christ. I think you will see that they did not give as much emphasis on sin, hell and an Angry God as you think. For instance, let's look at Peter talking to the house of Cornelius in Acts 10:34-43:

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. 36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all0 37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

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Notice, Peter introduced who Jesus was and Peter's relationship to Him. Finally, Peter mentions sin - by just saying that through faith in Jesus you can have remission of sins. Then, the entire room was saved. This entire speech takes about 2 minutes to read and God used it to lead the whole room to Christ.

It really is easy to lead people to Christ. Do some people need more discussion about sin and its punishment? Probably, but they are in the minority.

"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." (Romans 10:17). The Bible is a supernatural book. It is a book used by the Holy Spirit to convict the lost of sin, righteousness and judgment. It actually doesn't even matter if the person you are witnessing to believes the Bible is God's Word. If you just quote the Bible the Holy Spirit can take over. I have seen atheist cry and ask Jesus into their heart when, 5 minutes earlier, they were mocking God's Word.

So the burden is on me to bring people to Christ? Its all about me and how I present the message?

Again, not sure where this antagonism came from. But, yes, the Great Commission DOES put the burden on you. Fortunately, it is not ALL about us. However, YOU are an ambassador for Christ and YOU have the word of reconciliation.

It was Jesus' responsibility to die for our sins. It is the Holy Spirit's responsibility to convict the lost of sin, righteousness and judgment. It is the Christian's responsibility to share the gospel with the lost so the Holy Spirit can do His job and so that Jesus did not die in vain.

Read Ezekiel 3 and 33 - Ezekiel knew this. Paul understood this when he was explaining the blood of no man was on his hands.

Look, I don't care if you are a Calvanist, an Arminian, a biblicist or a fundamentalist. God has commanded us to talk to EVERYONE about His Son. Everyday people are dying all around us, never having another chance to hear about the love of Jesus. We MUST tell as many people as we can.

When it comes to the gospel
It is our job to convey
It is God's job to convict

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[Iconoclast]

"The thief comes only to steal, and kill, and destroy; I came that they might have life, and might have it abundantly.
John 10:10 NAS77


Sounds like a wonderful plan to me.:thumbsup:

John 10 describes the activity of Satan and it describes the activity of the Lord Jesus Christ that's all well and good but it doesn't answer the question that was being discussed about what is the wonderful plan for every person that's in the world what about those who never hear the gospel what's the wonderful plan for them?

 

[Iconoclast]

Iconoclast, I get the impression you are twisting my words around just to argue. I believe God has a wonderful plan for everyone's life. It starts with salvation through His Son. Then, the more we surrender to His will, the more we fall in line with that plan. And, just because I don't know what the pan is, doesn't mean there is no plan.

Why is that so hard to understand?

no Bob I didn't twist your words around and is no need for any argument we can have a discussion without it being an argument
you made the statement that God has a wonderful plan for everyone's life and I don't see that reflected in Scripture so i was asking you about that.

 

[JonC]

Um, follow up is part of the Great Commission - go back to Matthew 28:18-20. As for Philip, we don't know if he did any follow up or not - the Bible doesn't say. However, he was not the only one winning people to Christ in the book of Acts. The growth of churches throughout Acts is a testimony to follow up

:thumbsup: Too often, I think, we look at spreading the gospel as merely presenting facts and passages...but we are commanded to disciple. You are absolutely right that the Great Commission includes follow up. (Not saying that Philip absolutely "followed up," but perhaps other members of the Body of Christ did...we do not necessarily fulfill the Great Commission individually - but we need to be faithful to the task God puts before us).

 

[Bob Dudley]

no Bob I didn't twist your words around and is no need for any argument we can have a discussion without it being an argument
you made the statement that God has a wonderful plan for everyone's life and I don't see that reflected in Scripture so i was asking you about that

I'm running between appointments so this will not be well thought out. However, I even see John 3:16 as an indication that God has a plan for us bigger than what we would do. Maybe even some of Romans 8:31-39. I will think on this more. But, we have a big evangelism event this evening and I will probably be occupied with that most of the day. God bless.

 

[evangelist6589]

Bob I will reply to your post by the weekend on my Mac. I did not mean to antagonize but I have done so before to pastors and others that have challenged my open air messages with their friendship or non sin/hellfire based approaches. In fact last month a pastor was visiting the area and he also is an evangelist and he saw me open air and we chatted and we did not get along. He may have been using your method of evangelism and I use the way of the Master. It's not only comfort as many others in the past used the law in evangelism and even the deceased Ernest Reisinger encourages it and his books were around way before Comfort.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Not sure what to think about this thread.

looks like we seem to be distracted from telling others about Christ because we are too busy arguing about how to do it.

Quite ironic and sad.

Bob, as long you present sin when your witness and give the Holy Spirit avenue to work in hearts, I praise the Lord for you.

Evangelist may not see converts, but Jeremiah spoke to a nation that did not listen, though he faithfully preached the word of God, of course I would be sorely distressed if I had never seen someone come to know the Lord, but that doesn't mean that it's his fault. Though Evangelist I would strongly consider you to pray and ask God if there is something keeping you from seeing people saved.

Also Evangelist I would like to highly suggest to you that you read Charles Finneys autobiography. It's a fantastic read and will certainly challenge you.

 

[Rippon]

Also Evangelist I would like to highly suggest to you that you read Charles Finneys autobiography. It's a fantastic read and will certainly challenge you.

I have not read his autobiography. I have gone through most of his Systematic. It was deplorable. No doubt his bio is fascinating reading --but quite troubling to many of us. His ilfe is not one worthy of emulation. He thought he knew better than those in the Faith senior to him. I am sure his treatment of Pastor Gale is not objective. And neither would his account of Nettleton who tried to reason with him.