I fail to see how cherry picking out a few verses that you suppose demonstates your "Doctrines of Deterministic Pre-selected Grace" addresses "your" Op???
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I fail to see how cherry picking out a few verses that you suppose demonstates your "Doctrines of Deterministic Pre-selected Grace" addresses "your" Op???
psalms109:31
Active Member
I know first off that the wise and already learned God has hidden the truth from them that they are not His Sheep. That the only one who will come is those who become like children and listen and learn from Him will come. They become the new creation in Christ being born again by His word the old is gone and the new has come in that they are His sheep.
Absolutely no one not changed by the word of God has not been born again is His, it is those who are taught by the Father by His word and the Father and Jesus is one so being taught by Jesus is being taught by the Father.
Psalm 119:
Beth
9 How can a young person stay on the path of purity?
By living according to your word.
10 I seek you with all my heart;
do not let me stray from your commands.
11 I have hidden your word in my heart
that I might not sin against you.
12 Praise be to you, Lord;
teach me your decrees.
13 With my lips I recount
all the laws that come from your mouth.
14 I rejoice in following your statutes
as one rejoices in great riches.
15 I meditate on your precepts
and consider your ways.
16 I delight in your decrees;
I will not neglect your word.
John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”
John 6:45
It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.
Matthew 11:29
Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
John 6:68
Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
Absolutely no one not changed by the word of God has not been born again is His, it is those who are taught by the Father by His word and the Father and Jesus is one so being taught by Jesus is being taught by the Father.
Psalm 119:
Beth
9 How can a young person stay on the path of purity?
By living according to your word.
10 I seek you with all my heart;
do not let me stray from your commands.
11 I have hidden your word in my heart
that I might not sin against you.
12 Praise be to you, Lord;
teach me your decrees.
13 With my lips I recount
all the laws that come from your mouth.
14 I rejoice in following your statutes
as one rejoices in great riches.
15 I meditate on your precepts
and consider your ways.
16 I delight in your decrees;
I will not neglect your word.
John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”
John 6:45
It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.
Matthew 11:29
Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
John 6:68
Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
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Yes...they offer futile speculations and fallible human logic...instead of biblically based teaching which is perfectly logical.
You confuse them when you offer scripture....which they cannot begin to grasp:thumbsup::thumbsup:
HeirofSalvation
for..."stupid and ill-informed bull-waste"...read below:
Heres a whole steaming pile of it
:laugh::laugh:
for..."stupid and ill-informed bull-waste"...read below:
Heres a whole steaming pile of it
:laugh::laugh:
Yes, we can see how giving logical reasoning for your scriptural interpetations, which vitally hinges on force fitted principles of TULIP to support carnal man-made deterministic doctrines, would be considered a unfair challenge for you to present. Its aight...we understand the difficulties you would and must face in giving up your question begging and actually stepping out of your box to give logical reasoning in a debate and how it would be overbearing on those who feel they've been specially enlightened to "freely" use their own God given brain to reason with.
:thumbs:
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I do not believe this was force fit:
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
Paul used philosophy only to re-direct the minds of the vain human philosophers in acts 17...back to scripture...he did not go on and on , like you and Hos are want to do...:thumbs: You two would still be there rambling on and on about plato's debate fallacies....the gospel would have never left mars hill:thumbsup::thumbs:
My two cents.
It is all about elect and grace.
From the OP:
It is exceedingly sad that anyone who has experienced the Grace of God in Salvation would accuse their brethren of believing that God through His Grace turns the crown of His creative activity, Man, into a mindless robot! I submit the following OP on the thread "The Conflicted Calvinist" as evidence:
First the elect one is the Christ. All others are called to be in Christ.
Christ is the heir. The others are joint heirs with Christ only because Christ inherited.
Maybe we do not understand the creation of man.
What man is the crown of the created activity of God. This man?
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
The question was asked; What is man? He was created to have all that there is put under him. The first man Adam? No! We see not yet all things put under him.
But we see Jesus the elect, the Christ, the last Adam not as he was born of the woman. That man died so that the creation of man in the image of God could be completed which came by the Grace of God, the Father of the Christ in raising him from the dead. The inheritance came by the promise of the hope of eternal life.
That promise was given to the son of promise through the faith of him. It will be given to the elect as a gift through him who has received it Jesus Christ our Lord.
The crown of the creative activity of God is his resurrected Son who died for us.
Jesus is: the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all he might have the preeminence.
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Jesus, the one to come of which Adam was the figure, was and always will be the only begotten Son of God born of woman, yet we also will be the sons of God, neither can we die anymore, being the sons of the resurrection in the age to come. See Luke 20:36
For by grace through the faith is what took place with the elect, the Christ
who received the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father, shed the Holy Spirit forth on the called putting them in Christ. Acts 2:32,33,38,39
Read those verses.
But we see Jesus, (the Son of Man, the Son of God) who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Eternal life is the glory he was crowned with.
It is all about elect and grace.
From the OP:
It is exceedingly sad that anyone who has experienced the Grace of God in Salvation would accuse their brethren of believing that God through His Grace turns the crown of His creative activity, Man, into a mindless robot! I submit the following OP on the thread "The Conflicted Calvinist" as evidence:
First the elect one is the Christ. All others are called to be in Christ.
Christ is the heir. The others are joint heirs with Christ only because Christ inherited.
Maybe we do not understand the creation of man.
What man is the crown of the created activity of God. This man?
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
The question was asked; What is man? He was created to have all that there is put under him. The first man Adam? No! We see not yet all things put under him.
But we see Jesus the elect, the Christ, the last Adam not as he was born of the woman. That man died so that the creation of man in the image of God could be completed which came by the Grace of God, the Father of the Christ in raising him from the dead. The inheritance came by the promise of the hope of eternal life.
That promise was given to the son of promise through the faith of him. It will be given to the elect as a gift through him who has received it Jesus Christ our Lord.
The crown of the creative activity of God is his resurrected Son who died for us.
Jesus is: the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all he might have the preeminence.
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Jesus, the one to come of which Adam was the figure, was and always will be the only begotten Son of God born of woman, yet we also will be the sons of God, neither can we die anymore, being the sons of the resurrection in the age to come. See Luke 20:36
For by grace through the faith is what took place with the elect, the Christ
who received the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father, shed the Holy Spirit forth on the called putting them in Christ. Acts 2:32,33,38,39
Read those verses.
But we see Jesus, (the Son of Man, the Son of God) who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Eternal life is the glory he was crowned with.
Yes, we are aware that you believe your wisdom in ths matter is through special enlightenments, not to be questioned with human reasoning and that you are only here to "help" us to see things your way lest we be declared blind and unsaved by you.
Are you aware of the very apparent similarity your "teaching styles" have with that of cultic leaders who tell others their interpretations are from God and not to reason with their own God given brains?!?
If this is going to be a pissing contest .... just let it go....nobody looks good hitting the mark using these low class tactics.
Why must ....
Calvinist=arrogance
???
They just seem to go hand in hand. Not only on this forum, but almost every other forum where Calvinists debate. They definitely have a condescending attitude, and "roll their eyes" at us non-Calvinists who just aren't as "enlightened" as they think themselves to be.
Perhaps they should add a "6th point".....arrogance?
Calvinist=arrogance
???
They just seem to go hand in hand. Not only on this forum, but almost every other forum where Calvinists debate. They definitely have a condescending attitude, and "roll their eyes" at us non-Calvinists who just aren't as "enlightened" as they think themselves to be.
Perhaps they should add a "6th point".....arrogance?
Nice! Always one to take the high road I see.
Sorry, but that IS my experience with Calvinists.
You are either limited in your experiences then or your exceedingly myopic. I have 6 generations or more of Calvinist ancestors who were kind, genteel & good Christian people.
Personally I see much here of your kind that I find to be both crude & rude. Go up a few posts & read for yourself.
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
He did not cherry pick, he just shook the grace tree and that's what fell out.
My " kind" ? OK, I'm done.
UUUHHH..........In this respect..............uuuhhh.........yah, it is.........you see, I understand logical debate, and Skan does likewise, and his arguments were logical and sound. he didn't conjure them out of whole-cloth, it's a version of an argument which Arminians have been levelling for YEARS...probably centuries actually. I have heard his argument before.....MANY times, and in numerous forms. It isn't "novel" really. I understand his argument it's existed for ages, so, yes, I don't speak for "HIM" per-se........(he wouldn't like that)....but would I speak for his argument?????????????? Yes I would.....I will because I confidently KNOW something about the whole Cal/Arm debate. Most Calvinists on this board know FAR less about their own Theology than I do.....or Skan does. Often, the MOST ignorant ones are simultaneously the most dogmatic as well. Maybe you do, maybe you don't, but, I do..........and I consider myself qualified to speak on the topic.
DUH
Bronconagurski
New Member
Where is Skandelon's argument?
I saw it referenced in some posts but I fail to see it in this thread. Is it in another thread?
I saw it referenced in some posts but I fail to see it in this thread. Is it in another thread?
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I assume you are not offended by the Scripture that "psalms109:31", "Icon" and I have posted. Therefore, it would be helpful if you would prove your points above by identifying those posts which exhibit arrogance and then quoting the offending parts.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Skandelon's OP from another thread is quoted in the OP of this thread. Skan's thread has been closed!
UUUHHH..........In this respect..............uuuhhh.........yah, it is.........you see, I understand logical debate, and Skan does likewise, and his arguments were logical and sound. he didn't conjure them out of whole-cloth, it's a version of an argument which Arminians have been levelling for YEARS...probably centuries actually. I have heard his argument before.....MANY times, and in numerous forms. It isn't "novel" really. I understand his argument it's existed for ages, so, yes, I don't speak for "HIM" per-se........(he wouldn't like that)....but would I speak for his argument?????????????? Yes I would.....I will because I confidently KNOW something about the whole Cal/Arm debate. Most Calvinists on this board know FAR less about their own Theology than I do.....or Skan does. Often, the MOST ignorant ones are simultaneously the most dogmatic as well. Maybe you do, maybe you don't, but, I do..........and I consider myself qualified to speak on the topic.
DUH
Like your being from a former old school baptist church...ya mean like that...or that your a recovering.......right!
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